Actual pairings with amazing potential

[Crossover]

That was an ugly set up in every respect - costumes AND routine. They shouldn't have needed to check how it was being perceived by international audiences - common sense should have nixed the idea from the word go...

In the end, their OD has been referred to as one of hideous programs and costumes in history even including their fans' abhorrence, because they and their team staffs, and Russian Federation thought the program could be OK, and carried on with the program and performed at Nationals and European Championships where they won both. Common senses, oh yeah... Did you watch a clip with commentaries by British Eurosport guys on their OD? Maybe it was too late for them to change the OD at the stage even if their OD would have enraged the whole audience at Euros (I don't remember such things happened). The program got infamous finally at Vancouver as the whole nations witnessed.

As a result, their wonderful CD was completely forgotten, their bronze at Vancouver was mocked, and have been still stigmatized by the program. Sometimes, people made a reaaaaaaaaaaaally bad decision based on a false belief or idea. It was a clueless decision with no doubt, but that disaster could've been stopped had an intervention been there. As you can see, Carolina Kostner changed her both SP and FS during the Olympic season after her unsuccessful adventures with her news programs in the GP series. Her beautiful Ave Maria and recycled Bolero were a reflection of the heavy criticism upon her previous programs and costumes. She might've been heard, "This Scheherazade is not an Olympic program at all and the costume is inappropriate". Luckily, she had enough time to fix, while Domnina/Shabalin didn't have such opportunities because of their injuries. That's what I'm talking about, because the topic is about paired skaters with great potentials to accomplish more.

 

[Crossover]

Yamaguchi and Galindo are another team which while artistically may not have risen to the magic of Gordeeva and Grinkov but they technically had huge potential. It is understandable why Kristi would want to focus on their singles but they technically especially on the jumps which back then woud have given them a greater edge than today had huge potential and when they retired they already were so so very close to a world medal.

Krisiti seemed to consider returning to competition as a pair skater, but not with Rudy as she tried out with another skater (don't remember his name).

 

[karne]

Typical. You can think the other way, positive one. They were reigning World champions, so expectations for them were high before Vancouver Olympics. Had they have more time to compete before Russian Nationals, they could've have time to check on how their infamous OD could be perceived by "international audiences". Because time was running out, they could've switched the country/folk dance themed OD to another one, probably recycling previous OD from 2007/08, which was Cossack dance.

I would believe this if their attitude had been at all contrite after it became apparent that they were offending people. Instead it was, "Stop being so offended, this is our dance, we don't care if you're offended".

In the end, their OD has been referred to as one of hideous programs and costumes in history even including their fans' abhorrence, because they and their team staffs, and Russian Federation thought the program could be OK, and carried on with the program and performed at Nationals and European Championships where they won both. Common senses, oh yeah... Did you watch a clip with commentaries by British Eurosport guys on their OD? Maybe it was too late for them to change the OD at the stage even if their OD would have enraged the whole audience at Euros (I don't remember such things happened). The program got infamous finally at Vancouver as the whole nations witnessed.

The program was controversial before Vancouver. Pretty much as soon as it was done it became controversial. It was in the papers and on the news here well before Vancouver, and it takes a LOT to get figure skating in either. And yet, when representatives of the Australian Indigenous community, who were the ones most severely mocked by the disgusting "program", made them aware of the offence: they were basically told to put up, and shut up. It was a David and Goliath case. Nobody was about to seriously press them about it because they're Russian. Who cares if the little nobody Australians are upset, that was the attitude at the time.

They showed no remorse or acknowledgement that they even understood why the "program" was so offensive. It was a double offense that they won a medal.

 

[4everchan]

you know... as iffy as that program may have been... i don't disagree there, but don't you think these two skaters were just doing what their team had programmed for them... they were not making political statements, they were not the choreographers, and probably hadn't even chosen the theme nor the music...

I am saying this generally... perhaps in this case, they were involved with the bad choices but come on, they had no political agendas... they were athletes trying to perhaps have an original routine to impress the judges... yup... they ... erm... failed but to go bananas against them is not much better. There are a lot of people out there, with political agendas, who do much worse things, and are in power.

 

[Crossover]

I would believe this if their attitude had been at all contrite after it became apparent that they were offending people. Instead it was, "Stop being so offended, this is our dance, we don't care if you're offended".



The program was controversial before Vancouver. Pretty much as soon as it was done it became controversial. It was in the papers and on the news here well before Vancouver, and it takes a LOT to get figure skating in either. And yet, when representatives of the Australian Indigenous community, who were the ones most severely mocked by the disgusting "program", made them aware of the offence: they were basically told to put up, and shut up. It was a David and Goliath case. Nobody was about to seriously press them about it because they're Russian. Who cares if the little nobody Australians are upset, that was the attitude at the time.

They showed no remorse or acknowledgement that they even understood why the "program" was so offensive. It was a double offense that they won a medal.

I already said my point in the second paragraph to lyverbird1 that this topic is about paired skaters with great and actual potentials. I believe if D/S without injuries had competed through the whole GP series, they would've changed their OD because it could've been possibly strongly lashed out by the media with great powers to the world. Thus, I can't agree with your negative supposition they would've offended more people with their OD throughout the whole Olympic season.

Their OD was controversial within our figure skating communities, but didn't get much publicized until the figure skating event started at Vancouver. Olympic stages are a place for all athletics to dreams to compete, so their withdrawal from the event was unimaginable. Besides, they were considered one of the contenders for the Olympic gold, not just an Olympic medal. They got their karma's payback because their OD is still regarded as a striking example how a wrong choice can lead its catastrophic consequences.

 

[lyverbird1]

In the end, their OD has been referred to as one of hideous programs and costumes in history even including their fans' abhorrence, because they and their team staffs, and Russian Federation thought the program could be OK, and carried on with the program and performed at Nationals and European Championships where they won both. Common senses, oh yeah... Did you watch a clip with commentaries by British Eurosport guys on their OD? Maybe it was too late for them to change the OD at the stage even if their OD would have enraged the whole audience at Euros (I don't remember such things happened). The program got infamous finally at Vancouver as the whole nations witnessed.

As a result, their wonderful CD was completely forgotten, their bronze at Vancouver was mocked, and have been still stigmatized by the program. Sometimes, people made a reaaaaaaaaaaaally bad decision based on a false belief or idea. It was a clueless decision with no doubt, but that disaster could've been stopped had an intervention been there. As you can see, Carolina Kostner changed her both SP and FS during the Olympic season after her unsuccessful adventures with her news programs in the GP series. Her beautiful Ave Maria and recycled Bolero were a reflection of the heavy criticism upon her previous programs and costumes. She might've been heard, "This Scheherazade is not an Olympic program at all and the costume is inappropriate". Luckily, she had enough time to fix, while Domnina/Shabalin didn't have such opportunities because of their injuries. That's what I'm talking about, because the topic is about paired skaters with great potentials to accomplish more.

Yes, the topic is about potential, I'm aware. I would suggest that one of the criteria for potential is choices of programmes as well as anything else, if skaters with great potential choose poorly, it can affect their results as much as injury and that happened with this team. They had plenty of time and opportunity to avoid this choice but chose not too, whether it was a personal or federation decision. This choice affected their potential that season as well as injury, making it a pretty valid topic to discuss on this thread! I'm not rubbishing the rest of their skating, there was much to admire...

 

[Giselle]

Sorry about the eating disorder comment. I got Keauna and Mary Beth Marley mixed up

 

[Lota]

Yu/Jin (ain't letting that one go anytime soon... or ever) :sad21:

 

[blue_idealist]

Krisiti seemed to consider returning to competition as a pair skater, but not with Rudy as she tried out with another skater (don't remember his name).

I didn't realize this! Wow. When?

 

[Skater Boy]

you know as much as I thought Kristi was very feminine and graceful and very consistent with difficult individual jumps - she didn't have a lot of charisma or personality - more when she went pro so I am not so sure how great of a complete pairs skater she woudl have been. I mean she cold some big individual tricks and was small and light for lifts but she didn't have the timnig or the magic of Gordeeva, Elene B, even Jamie Sale or other amazing pairs ladies. She wasn't spunky like Brasseur. She didn't have the flexibiltiy of Natalia M.

 

[Crossover]

I didn't realize this! Wow. When?

When the rule was modified to allow professional skaters to return to competition before Lillehammer, so it was around 1993.

 

[Crossover]

Yamaguchi and Galindo are another team which while artistically may not have risen to the magic of Gordeeva and Grinkov but they technically had huge potential. It is understandable why Kristi would want to focus on their singles but they technically especially on the jumps which back then woud have given them a greater edge than today had huge potential and when they retired they already were so so very close to a world medal.

you know as much as I thought Kristi was very feminine and graceful and very consistent with difficult individual jumps - she didn't have a lot of charisma or personality - more when she went pro so I am not so sure how great of a complete pairs skater she woudl have been. I mean she cold some big individual tricks and was small and light for lifts but she didn't have the timnig or the magic of Gordeeva, Elene B, even Jamie Sale or other amazing pairs ladies. She wasn't spunky like Brasseur. She didn't have the flexibiltiy of Natalia M.

I'm not sure why your latest post contradicts your own previous post as you assumed Krisiti had a great potential to become a contender for World pairs' medalists.

 

[mrrice]

you know... as iffy as that program may have been... i don't disagree there, but don't you think these two skaters were just doing what their team had programmed for them... they were not making political statements, they were not the choreographers, and probably hadn't even chosen the theme nor the music...

I am saying this generally... perhaps in this case, they were involved with the bad choices but come on, they had no political agendas... they were athletes trying to perhaps have an original routine to impress the judges... yup... they ... erm... failed but to go bananas against them is not much better. There are a lot of people out there, with political agendas, who do much worse things, and are in power.

4everchan, I think you are correct when you say that the skater's were probably doing whatever they were told to do by their choreographer. I remember saying "Are you sure that's a good idea" to the Band Director at my college when he said "Our show this year will be called African Skies and I'm sure that Quintin (Me) will have all kinds of good idea's.

I said Well, I'll ask my Dance Professor and see what she says because I hated Afro Jazz and Modern so, I didn't really pay attention. He looked shocked When I said..."Plus Um, I'm from Germany" We all laughed our butts off, except the Director He said F'U!

 

[Skater Boy]

I'm not sure why your latest post contradicts your own previous post as you assumed Krisiti had a great potential to become a contender for World pairs' medalists.

Not really my point was Kristi and Rudi could win medals; but I am not sure they would ever be deemed all that fabulous or special. Ie Holly Cook won bronze and Meissner gold but their wholeskating was lacking overall.

 

[NanaPat]

So they could have offended even MORE people with that racist abomination of an original dance by winning with it?

I think they would have done a totally different (non-aboriginal) dance without the injury. The dance was choreographed to the hide the injury.

 

[4everchan]

has anyone mentioned MTM ? I love Dylan with Lubov but yeah... I feel we were shortchanged here... KM is so much more solid on SBS and that's a must in pairs nowadays....

 

[Ares]

I think they would have done a totally different (non-aboriginal) dance without the injury. The dance was choreographed to the hide the injury.

What the ... ?!

How so? In which way it's easier? It is one of
the most absurd statements that I have ever come across in this forum.

 

[Skater Boy]

Agreed about Dylan and Kristen. I think artistically they were also just developing. Too bad if Dylan had committed to 2018, not blaming him, we might still have them. Sadly her current partner isn't strong enough or has poor lifting technique.

 

[SarahSynchro]

I feel naseous just thinking about the fall Kirsten had at nationals this year on the twist attempt in the short program. So brutal. It's amazing she recovered so quickly.

I feel she didn't expect Dylan to find a partner and become a team that could challenge her for that worlds and Olympics spot. She probably also didn't think Julianne and Charlie would progress as much as they did and also become top competitors. You can pretty well bank on having three spots for Canadian pairs for worlds and Olympics ... But when there are four good teams vying for those spots, it gets tricky. Somebody is going to be very dissapointed in 2018.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Mine is Marina and Igor. I would have loved to see how Chock/Bates and the Shibs would have progressed with both of them in charge. Also, I wonder how V/M's technical problems would have been addressed in 2014 had Igor been there.

Also, I'm glad Anissina/Averbukh didn't work out. I would have hated to see the diva Marina Anissina doing Natalia Linichuck's bad taste or boring routines. What she did with Peizerat, for the most part, was better than anything Linichuk would have came up with and I liked Marina's Russian ice dance foundation mixing with Peizerat's French one. That said, their Martin Luther King FD may have had its heart in the right place, but I still don't know what to think of it in terms of it actually being a dance.