All Things American Ice Dance

[CARA]

I've been jealous of the nice "All things Canadian ice dance" thread, so I decided to start one for the US ice dancers . This to me is an opportune time since Ice Network has finally finished uploading all the sectional videos (ok, I plodded them to hurry along a bit. )
For those who are subscribers of IN, I highly recommend that you watch ice dance of all three sectionals, especially the Pacific Coast Sectionals.

I foresee several themes develop out of the current US ice dancing landscape.

A. Battle of the #3 team slot:
Many of us agree that the # 1 (D/W) & #2 (the Shibs) US ice dance teams are pretty much determined barring unforeseen disaster. Hence, the real contest at nationals is the battle for the bronze medals among five teams according to the International Scores they have earned so far:

1. 179.06 Davis/White (CoR; 178.07 SA)
2. 151.85 the Shibs (NHK; 148.40 CoC)

3a. 139.01 Hubbell/Donohue (Nebelhorn; 131.04 SA) - Sectionals (140.96)
3b. 136.88 Chock/Bates (Finlandia; 135.10 SC; 130.94 TEB)
3c. 138.07 Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt (Ice Challenge; 126.39 NHK)
3d. 134.88 Cannuscio/Lorello (Ice Challenge; 115.22 SA) - Sectionals (129.84)
* 3e. 106.74 Samuelson/Gilles (CoC) - Sectionals (136.86)

* Though their CoC score is drastically lower than the first four teams, I decided to include S/G to the bronze medal contenders based on their remarkable improvement in two weeks, in which they scored the second best among all three sectionals contestants. Given approximately one and one-half months practice time, S/G should be medal contenders by nationals.

For those who do not have access to IN, I have provided videos of all five bronze medal candidates for your prediction/evaluation.

3a. H/D - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRO0kMCN50w; FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE2eB7aye9c
3b. C/B - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqCRXX4EpM; FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6T7V7fI19Q
3c. K/G-S - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuFj_jJHK9g; FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P-JSybwGlo
3d. C/L - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we7hU...ature=related; FD: http://www.youtube.com/user/diodio00...12/b0gbcsYLT_o
3e. S/G - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct2JWhW3NR4; FD: - I'll add it if someone could find their video -

I would be interested in your opinion as to which team has the best chance to be the 3rd US team.

B. Prospects of Three Freshman Teams:

In 2011 nationals Lichtman/Copely became the Junior ice dance national champtions, Cannuscio/McManus the bronze medalists, and Olson/Cowan were the pewter medalists. All three teams moved onto the senior division, and it appears that their fortune have reversed. Thus far, their results are the followings:

1. 119.42 Olson/Cowan (Nebelhorn) - Sectionals (136.82);
2. 109.68 Cannuscio/McManus (Ondrej Nepela) - Sectionals (126.92);
3. 109.61 Lichtman/Copely (CoC) - Sectionals (122.10).

Once again, here are the videos of the above teams' recent performances for your opinion/evaulation.
1. O/C - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGHM-ZSoKWk; FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXnbt...ature=related;
2. C/M - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXnbt...ature=related; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw1EIMbzJNU;
It is noteworthy that C/M team earned higher FD score than more experienced older Cannuscio/Lorello team at Eastern Sectionals.
3. L/C - SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5163Y...497C9BEB1B6F0; FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP_TEH4EmVM.

Again, I highly recommend that you watch the Pacific Coast sectionals in which O/C earned more than 14 total points higher than L/C in what amounted to be the back to back comparison/competition.

We can of course discuss C: Prospects of Newly formed teams (C/B, H/D, & S/G) , but given the short duration in which they have been a team, it probably is more feasible to discuss that specific topic after seeing nationals. Of course, that's just my humble opinions and discussions are always welcomed.

 

[Spun Silver]

Cara, What a great post. You've just provided me with my next chunk of
skating vids to watch. I really want to get a little more "fluent" in the language of ice dance so this is perfect. I'm a bit bogged down with holiday tasks at the moment, but hopefully I can get to them in the next few days.

 

[Olympia]

On TV they just showed Davis/White at the last Grand Prix event. I've lost track, was it Cup of Russia? I thought I had died and gone to heaven. These two breathed the music. I've always loved the overture to Die Fledermaus, but it's never made me cry and shiver at the same time before. Meryl and Charlie were channeling Old Vienna. Every move, those amazing lifts, the flourishes, even the costumes are all beyond perfect. Much as I love Tessa and Scott, I do hope that the next Olympics belongs to Davis and White. And kudos to Zoueva/Shpilband for the choreography--it just has wings!

Moreover, they showed the dance performance right after the ladies' competition, where pretty much everyone was heavy-footed and tentative, even my fave Mao. Ladies' skating is in such difficulty these days because so many of the requirements seem counter to the beauty of skating. But dance has managed to grow and flourish in this CoP atmosphere. Watching it is so refreshing after biting my nails through all the poor girls.

 

[dorispulaski]

I do love their FD this year. It's amazing how the elements blend seamlessly into the dance. It looks so light, so airy, so effortless. It was particularly wonderful to see it today on the TV with no commentary.

 

[Mrs. P]

Whole post

CARA, nice work! Totally love this.

I will need to go back and watch all these videos and that might change my impressions. But my first impression (and again, just my first), is that I think it's a battle between Hubbell and Donahue and Chock and Bates. And I'm inclined toward H/D, if nothing else, it would keep Arctic FSC from having another sweep. But further more, I think Hubbell and Donahue are better matched than C/B.

As for the younger teams, I've only seen L/C and I've been sort of disappointed by them so far. I've expected more from the reigning U.S. junior champs and junior world bronze medalists. But it was their first GP, so maybe they were nervous.

 

[skateluvr]

I think Marlie is now this season, and last for that matter, last year, the best ice dance team in the world. They deserve gold if they skate up to their best. But when you have Oly gold and still skate like Voir, the judges will hold you up. I have always been awestruck by Meryl. The Shibs are everything that is good about pure ice skating. I think Chock/ Bates are the 4th best in the world, but I would be surprised if the judges gave 3 out of 4 to American ice dancers, even in this 'brave new world' of NA ice dance dominance. Actually, If I were a judge, I would have given top scores to the Shubutani's last year. They are that pure for me.

I am confused by the judging system and already have headaches so I never will get the details as it's not going to make me enjoy the sport more...only explain why the winners are not always who I think are the best/most enjoyable.

 

[dorispulaski]

CARA, Thanks for putting this all together. I haven't finished watching all the Sectionals yet and will save comment on them till later.

I really like Chock/Bates of the 3 reconstituted teams, particularly their TEB FD (despite the crazy twizzle fall). The lifts in their program are very ingenious, and the one with Evan in a back spiral with Madison stretched out along his back is particularly gorgeous, particularly Evan's steadiness on that edge!

I do agree that since the three reconstituted teams are so recently formed, that it is hard to judge their long term chances. At this point, both C&B and H&D seem to have come along much further than S&G, but S&G are a much more recent item. Plus Gilles had been out of competition for a year or two, I think, and was coaching? He seems quite rough, but that could improve.

Some extra info-Madison Chock is only 5'2", which is why the C/B lifts are already so seamless. Emily is 5'4". It's got to be a little easier for Evan to lift her. Both members of the team are post World Jr champions, and both are relatively young.

Madison is 19, Evan is 22.

Hubbel/Donahue
There is no doubt that H&D sizzle on the ice. The chemistry is there. And they did very, very well at Skate America, nearly scoring a medal. Madison is 20, Zach is 22. They are both quite tall, which makes an imposing impression on the ice. Madison in 5'7", Zach is 6'0". The small difference in size will make lifting a challenge for them, long term-not impossible, but their timing must be much more exact than teams with a smaller height difference. The payoff is big though, because the option for imposing, lovely, long lines can't be understated.

It will be quite a fight for that 3rd place at Nationals.

Samuelson & Gilles start at a disadvantage. Not only that they started a lot later. Todd looked really out of shape at CoC to me. And he's a lot older, so it would be very easy for him to go back to coaching, having made the decision to retire once, it should be easier the second time.

Cannuscio/Lorello, who were new to seniors last year. They qualified for the JGPF, when they were juniors, and they won Easterns this year, ahead of Cannuscio/McManus.

C&L perhaps gave their best performance in the SD at TEB back in 2010 where they skated a very nice Golden Waltz and had great twizzles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itz1xsWBoPA
They were not as good this year at Skate America, but last year they made a huge improvement between CoC and TEB, so I wouldn't count out a similar improvement this year:
SA
SD-Ian fell. On the twizzles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bddhlWkZ_is
FD-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOAJ3pJDjCg

I think this is a team that might profit from a different coach-

 

[KKonas]

Don't think any of the 1st year senior teams are good enough (yet) to challenge for the podium. We've been spoiled by Davis/White, the Shibs and Samuelson & Bates for breaking the mold. Battle for 3rd will most likely be Chock/Bates or Hubbell/Donahue. Samuelson & Gilles just haven't had enough time together and Goldfinger for the SD does not say "Latin"
in any way.

 

[dorispulaski]

KKonas, ITA about Goldfinger. I wondered what on earth they were thinking. It does make you wonder if there are 'taste' issues there.

 

[Mathman]

¿Goldfinger is a tango, si?

Would Laila Ali fool us?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxAmmdNhyec

 

[dorispulaski]

Perhaps not, but what is needed is rhumba, samba, merengue, chacha. Especially rhumba for the pattern dance.

 

[clairecloutier]

I agree that Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue seem like the top 2 contenders for the bronze spot at Nationals. Both these teams are already much better than I expected they'd be, considering how new they are.

I like Hubbell/Donohue because they bring something different to the U.S. ice dance scene--namely, sexiness and sizzle (not typical attributes of Zoueva/Shpilband teams, however good they may be). Plus, H/D back it up with impressive power and unison, so their dancing amounts to more than just attitude. They remind me a little of Navarro/Bommentre--Madison and Kim have a similar look on the ice. But H/D already seem more powerful and solid in their technique. I like them.

Chock/Bates are growing on me. I was really disappointed when Evan & Emily broke up--I thought they'd be world medalists or world champions together someday. However, I think he and Chock are improving as a team, and I like their programs. They have a soft, sophisticated look on the ice.

Prior to the season, I thought Kriengkrairut/Giuletti-Schmitt (sp?) might have a shot at bronze. However, their performance at NHK was sort of mediocre. Something is missing in their choreography/packaging--it's too bland. To move up, they need a more distinctive style and more exciting programs.

 

[dorispulaski]

Well, you can hardly expect to be anything but bland in costumes like this.
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lumhjuWQRx1qg33m0o1_400.jpg

Last year they sizzled.
http://www.goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kg.jpg

Note the difference in costuming.

 

[claphappy]

Well, you can hardly expect to be anything but bland in costumes like this.
http://www.goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kg.jpg

Last year they sizzled.
http://www.goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kg.jpg

Note the difference in costuming.

ya' got the same picture twice, buddy!

 

[colleen o'neill]

I'm really enjoying reading this thread . I have to agree that K/G-S haven't really lived up to the expectations I had of them after seeing them last year..potential is still there , though.

I'm curious to see what will happen at US Nationals with H/D and C/B going head to head...it should be interesting..

 

[dorispulaski]

Oops. Here's this year's costumes

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lumhjuWQRx1qg33m0o1_400.jpg

(And I edited the original post too)

 

[Spun Silver]

Cara, I just started working through the links, and found that the SP links in your first section (Bronze candidates) don't work. It's not just the semi-colons because I tried copying the URLs without them. Haven't had time to search for them myself yet.

Meanwhile, just wanted to put a hand up in favor of K/G-S (which may be the hardest name(s) to spell in all of figure skating!)... it's true that their free is a little too beigy, but I'm excited about this team. C/B seem to have an aura already and they look like they'll be ready to grab the bronze, but I'd love to see K/G-S give them a fight for it.

First off, she is stunningly beautiful, which doesn't really count but I can't help noting it, with a lovely flexible back. Second, I like their cohesion as a team. Third, their program goes well with the music, hitting the right accents. This is in contrast to H/D whose free music is so overpowering that their program looks vanilla and bland by comparison. I was enjoying the music a lot more than the skating.

I'd like to hear a bit more discussion of K/G-S (and the other bronze candidates) from a technical standpoint if anyone has the time and interest. Strengths? Weaknesses?

 

[dorispulaski]

When I get done updating the Japan thread, I'll try to write something about K/G-S.

I'd like to add some for a great, very young junior team:

http://mcnamara-carpenter.ice-dance.com/

Lorraine McNamara & Quinn Carpenter

They finished third at Eastern Sectionals and so should be at Nationals.

http://ww2.gazette.net/stories/011707/kensnew210631_32013.shtml

This story dates back to 2007, when Quinn was 10 and Lorraine was 7.
Picture of them from back then:
http://ww2.gazette.net/images/Wheaton/icew122706a_cmykb.jpg

So they are still very young.

The article also discusses the Parsons, who were 2nd at Easterns in Juniors this year.

Bonacorsi / Mager were first in Juniors at Easterns, but they are close to aging out of juniors.

Carpenter & McNamara would have finished ahead of the Parsons, if they had not both fallen at the beginning of the twizzle sequence in the FD, getting no credit for the twizzle, and 2 deductions for the fall.

Another team that I liked last year at Nationals was Jean Luc Baker and Joylyn Yang. I know there was an injury. Have they split?

 

[wishonastar]

Meanwhile, just wanted to put a hand up in favor of K/G-S (which may be the hardest name(s) to spell in all of figure skating!)... it's true that their free is a little too beigy, but I'm excited about this team. C/B seem to have an aura already and they look like they'll be ready to grab the bronze, but I'd love to see K/G-S give them a fight for it.

First off, she is stunningly beautiful, which doesn't really count but I can't help noting it, with a lovely flexible back. Second, I like their cohesion as a team. Third, their program goes well with the music, hitting the right accents. This is in contrast to H/D whose free music is so overpowering that their program looks vanilla and bland by comparison. I was enjoying the music a lot more than the skating.

I'd like to hear a bit more discussion of K/G-S (and the other bronze candidates) from a technical standpoint if anyone has the time and interest. Strengths? Weaknesses?

I think Nationals will be very interesting. There are new teams that each bring something to the table.

I don't think that K/G-S have the strength they had last year, though she is, indeed, beautiful. I think last year's programs were better. The FD was to die for, and they would have medaled barring the tragic fall. They may fall short with all the strong new teams.

S/G are too new and I think there are some rough edges that need to be worked out, but given this coming year together, I think we will see them very strong at '13 Nationals. They have a lot of potential.

C/B have done well as a new team, and they are going on their past experiences to help them. I am not saying that is why they placed where they did, just that they have experience dealing w/the added pressures. I don't think Evan looks as good as he did, there are times when I almost see him hunched in order to fit to Madison. Their size difference (about a foot-good for pairs), can at times be distracting to me. I don't see a genuine connection yet, tho' they are trying to express it. I do see a grace about them, and softness. Nice lifts.

H/D are definitely not vanilla. Don't understand how the music is overpowering. It is intense and gritty, like the program. Their program is beautiful, as are the others. Different tastes for different people. They do bring a strength and power to their skating, and have done well also as a new team, placing 3rd in FD at SA (program can't be that bad, they won Nebelhorn, too) falling just short of the bronze.

It is hard to compare teams from videos. Each team brings a different style. We all should be thankful that USFS has so many talented teams

 

[dwiggin3]

KKonas, ITA about Goldfinger. I wondered what on earth they were thinking. It does make you wonder if there are 'taste' issues there.

Who was Emily's coach before she teamed up with Todd? I liked Emily's line but always wondered about the "taste" issue with her. Perhaps it's tagged along to this partnership.