Are the Biellmanns getting out of control?

[John King]

I think the critics might have something right when you come across satires like this ; centerforadvancedsarcasm.blogspot.com/2006/02/japan-takes-gold-in-olympic-crotch.html,and the photo isn't a computor manipulation! Just look at www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/photo/22006/m36707.jpg, secretchina.com/news/news_images/2004-3-27-shizuka-arakawa.jpg, or www.radio-canada.ca/Sports/patinage...mpMonde2004/Albums/Mercredi/AlbumPhoto08.html (okay,so that's an Ina Bauer. Still, you get the picture,so to speak)..And that's just Shizuka! I could fill a weekly calender with photos of Sasha Cohen!

 

[Mathman]

The first two pictures aren't Bielmanns either.They are her astonishing move -- I don't know what you call it -- where she holds her leg up to the side, then lets it go -- and it stays there! All the while she is doing a change of edge spiral.

True, the ladies should pay attention to the cut of their costumes. Nowadays we are seeing more and more ladies skating in pants. (But body suits or leotards over tights are regarded as too risque. Go figure.)

MM

 

[Sk8harvest]

Your links don't point to pictures of Beilman positions. Although they are pictures showing Shizza's amazing flexibility and her gorgeous Ina Bauer.

In response to your topic title - "Are Beilmanns getting out of control?" - in my opinion yes they are. It seems that nearly every spin and spiral has a Beilmann position thrown in. I think they should be limited just as jumps/jumping passes are under the COP.

 

[tarotx]

What's getting out of hand is skaters doing moves they don't do well. If every lady did a great classic layback I wouldn't mind and I wouldn't mind if people had great catchfoot positions. It's the horrible ones that bite (most fall in this group actually )

Pictures are a different thing all together. Even the good catchfoots can look Vulgar when it's a still frame.

 

[Kathleen]

YES!!!

Every program has one it seems......

My big beef with the new scoring system is that the programs are very similar......not much originality anymore, kwim?

 

[peachy]

Yeah none of those pictures are of bielmanns, but I definitely agree that the bielmann is getting out of control... I think the position is cool, because it shows great flexibility, but some skaters, its the only thing they can do! Like Slutskaya... my mom and I were counting how many bielmanns she did in her long program and I think there were at least 5, probably more, and the thing is, in her spiral sequence she didn't have a single position that wasn't some sort of catch-foot! That's why I love Sasha Cohen's spiral sequence, because it is a perfect mix of all different kinds of spirals

 

[jesslily]

Irina and a few other top skaters just simply can not do traditional spirals. They don't have the flexibilty and strength to do them. So they have to do all the spirals in Biellmann's position to hide their weaknesses.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I haven't seen a single spiral sequence that consisted of all Biellmanns or even all Biellmanns and catchfoots. To get high levels on spirals means at least three positions. Having one catchfoot in the spiral has been around as long as spirals have been required.

It's interesting that Slutskaya is credited with the Biellmann craze in spirals, when it was Arakawa who made the position a feature of her spiral in 2004.

 

[slutskayafan21]

It is just example of stupid spin rules and stupid spin scoring. You have Lambiel the worlds best male spinner by far, who should outscore everybody, except maybe Buttle, by over 5 points per long program getting lower spins scores than average or lower than average spinners like Plushenko and Lysacek. You have women all doing ugly Biellmans. You have GOE scores divided by half when there are already only half the spins in programs as jumps, with no point values for even higher level spins so they are already worth less than half than jumps anyway, but they have to reduce it more. You have skaters getting injured trying to do those funky spins. It is all ridiculous and embarassing.

 

[JonnyCoop]

Being old enough to remember Denise Biellmann at the Lake Placid Olympics doing the ORIGINAL Biellmann and what an astonishing site at that time it was to see, I would have to say YES. The Biellmann used to be a move that would pop up every now and then, and occasionally it was done just correctly enough to be a spectacular move, but now it's being done so often and usually not very well, so it's gone from IMO a spectacular move to something that just needs to be retired.

But such are the trends in figure skating. In the early 80s, just about everyone was doing Arabians; it was pretty much a standard free skating maneuver. Now, you rarely if at all ever see one. In a couple of seasons, I think skaters will realize the Biellmann has been DONE TO DEATH and then they'll end up overdoing something else.

 

[redladybug21]

I might not mind the beilman so much if it wasn't done like 50 times in one program, and if ever single ladies skater didn't do it at least once in their program. I actually find myself tuning out those skaters who do the beilman repeatedly and look forward to programs without that move. I hope next season will be a season without beilmans popping up every 5 seconds.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The first two pictures aren't Bielmanns either.They are her astonishing move -- I don't know what you call it -- where she holds her leg up to the side, then lets it go -- and it stays there! All the while she is doing a change of edge spiral. MM

I call it the Shizuka Y Spiral.

I've never seen it done before by any skater. I think she is entitled to name.

Joe

 

[mzheng]

I call it the Shizuka Y Spiral.

I've never seen it done before by any skater. I think she is entitled to name.

Joe

Kwan had a similar one done in her winter marshall's practice. It's a variation position of Y position.....I'd call them all TT's variations. Sasha diddn't do so much of variations move/spins until she transfer to TT. Arakawas diddn't do so many so called 'Sasha like' moves untill she transfer to TT. .....Now since TT choreo both Arakawa and Michelle's programs, Michelle started doing the variation too......So it looks like TT indeed has the ability to dig out skaters' natural talents and put it all together.

back ot the topic. I don't see any of these positions could be called variation of Bielmann.

 

[orchid]

I would be pleased when all the catch-foot spirals, misnamed Bielmann, vanish.

Bielmann, I love the move, but it is time to retire.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I do not remember Michelle doing a no hands Y Spiral. I believe she could because her Y Spin is excellent. But a Y Spiral and then let go???

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I would be pleased when all the catch-foot spirals, misnamed Bielmann, vanish.

Bielmann, I love the move, but it is time to retire.

Catch-foot is a catchall Weir does a catch L spin; many do a one hand catch camel; Sasha does a catch I spin; so many skaters do a hand held Y spiral. I prefer to name them by deserving inventors.

Joe

 

[JonnyCoop]

It's becoming a bowl of alphabet soup in here......

 

[mzheng]

I do not remember Michelle doing a no hands Y Spiral. I believe she could because her Y Spin is excellent. But a Y Spiral and then let go???

Joe

No. lol, I was confused myself. I was talking about pulling you foot with other hand and extending this hand, the one shown in one of these links.

 

[MKFSfan]

What is an Arabian move/position?

 

[gkelly]

See this thread re arabians:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7533