Are the Biellmanns getting out of control?
- Thread starter John King
- Start date
Joesitz said:
Catch-foot spirals is what I referred to. An L-spin is an L-spin, the I-spin is an I-spin.
The spiral when grabbing and yanking the foot to some variance of degree above the head, is a catch foot Spiral. A spiral is not a spin.
Not to worry, after each Olympics, scoring of moves are revaluated and points reassigned. I predict and hope this "grab the leg at any point or the skate is the better place for more points - spiral' and the true Bielmann will be downgraded
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
mzheng said:
Yea, I thought that I had seen Michelle do that same move at the Marshalls event in December. The only difference was that she did not let go of her leg at the end of the spiral.( Maybe, because of her injury at the time) But, Michelle also dose that move.
I surely hope that that will add the Rule were a move / jump can not be repeated. ( & that includes a change of direction or let.) Because, doing a Bielman on 1 leg & then chaning to the other leg just for the sake of points really pisses me off. Not to mention that this move adds no dramatic flare to the program at all. it is just thrown in there for points.
. Yeah, Michelle has always done a Y Spin. But, I do love her spiral & the edging was amazing. She always had wonderful edges.
I think that picture of Shiz with a different arm variation is of a spin, right? (The I-spin, then open the arm, hold on to blade with one hand) I'm not sure we've seen her do that arm position as a spiral, but I could be wrong! Michelle was seen doing that same variation in a warm-up for Marshalls, went from a Y-spiral, grabbed clade with opposite hand, spread arm. In the program, she just did the Y-spiral. I'm hoping we'll see her new spiral sequence at the cheesefest/COI!!!
Anyways, I loved Shiz's Y COE spiral, then let go or skate spiral this year. Really showed off her strengths-flexibility, blade control and good edges, ice coverage.
Anyways, I loved Shiz's Y COE spiral, then let go or skate spiral this year. Really showed off her strengths-flexibility, blade control and good edges, ice coverage.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Alissa Czisny has been doing a forward change-edge Y-spiral for quite a while. (She doesn't let go, though).
2001: http://www.catslair.com/skating/2001/nationals/pics/jr/ladies/AlissaCzisny6.jpg
2002: http://www.mscnet.com/jenny/mkf/2002nats/ladies/aczisny-p01.jpg
2005 (inside): http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/ap_photo/20051009/all/t1593008.jpg
2005 (outside): http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/juniors2005/normal_CZISNY2.JPG
2001: http://www.catslair.com/skating/2001/nationals/pics/jr/ladies/AlissaCzisny6.jpg
2002: http://www.mscnet.com/jenny/mkf/2002nats/ladies/aczisny-p01.jpg
2005 (inside): http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/ap_photo/20051009/all/t1593008.jpg
2005 (outside): http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/juniors2005/normal_CZISNY2.JPG
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Wow, the flexibility in that 2nd picture! Alissa does a really nice Y-COE. Seems like we are seeing more and more skaters doing the Y COE. I like when a skater goes from one position to another, whether it be a COE or like Alissa also does the Y into a traditional spiral position, or Shiz/Sasha Y-spiral into a fan, without a stroke.
God, yes. I remember thinking that during the Torino games. Every female skater just HAD to have a Biellmann in there, on at least one foot, probably two, and it isn't a very pretty spin, just an impressive one--or at least it was, until absolutely everyone started doing it. Maybe there will be a "Biellmann rule" like the "Zayak rule" before it?
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
See her LIVE. The Y spiral is high speed and turned into a 'fan' to arabesque. Oh, if that girl could land her jumps!peachy said:
Joe
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Here's Michelle.Panther2000 said:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/events/200506/marshallschallenge/kwan-extension.jpg
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
You've got to be kidding...
If you "persons" are getting uncomfortable with your continence, that is absolutely no reason to think that these very difficult and fundamentally sound aspects of figure-skating need to be reexamined.
Unfortunate for mother teresa and the bunch, The woman's body is the most beautiful and thought provoking "thing" ever to be seen on this earth. Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable...I don't get it. Tame down their costumes, are you joking?
There is an aspect of figure-skating that is just as sensual as it is romantic. You need only remember one thing. They know what their wearing, and what they're going to do. There is going to be freaks out there as well as people who totally overlook this. Hence the issue is not the costumes or the positions, it is the spectators.
If you "persons" are getting uncomfortable with your continence, that is absolutely no reason to think that these very difficult and fundamentally sound aspects of figure-skating need to be reexamined.
Unfortunate for mother teresa and the bunch, The woman's body is the most beautiful and thought provoking "thing" ever to be seen on this earth. Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable...I don't get it. Tame down their costumes, are you joking?
There is an aspect of figure-skating that is just as sensual as it is romantic. You need only remember one thing. They know what their wearing, and what they're going to do. There is going to be freaks out there as well as people who totally overlook this. Hence the issue is not the costumes or the positions, it is the spectators.
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- Joined
- Sep 10, 2005
The quasi-literate posting style, Mathman? Or the fact that, from what I can determine, it's slightly pervy (though I admit I'm having a hard time reading that post.)
I can yank my foot up pretty high in a Y position. (Actually what I do is a develope, in ballet, not a skating move.) That doesn't mean I do it all the time. It's not the flashing, it's the boredom factor. There are other tricks to fill out a program, many of which have the same possibility for flashing of the shorts that seanibu seems to be looking for (again, hard to figure that post out.) Save the high Bielmanns and catchfoot positions for those who can do them without wobbling.
I can yank my foot up pretty high in a Y position. (Actually what I do is a develope, in ballet, not a skating move.) That doesn't mean I do it all the time. It's not the flashing, it's the boredom factor. There are other tricks to fill out a program, many of which have the same possibility for flashing of the shorts that seanibu seems to be looking for (again, hard to figure that post out.) Save the high Bielmanns and catchfoot positions for those who can do them without wobbling.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
Agree with 90%
Yet I am not looking for "flashing"
but worry more about the types who ONLY see it in that way. There is a element of impressiveness that makes it appealing to a person who admires beauty more when it is accomplishing something that requires achieving talent through persistence. As far as the ballet thing goes, this is really where figure skating moves evolved from, so that is rather redundant to say. Don't forget this is a performing sport.
As for all my guy friends that think it's sexy, that's fine too, and will defend their right to see that aspect of the sport. As far as the skaters are concerned, well I can only be speculative here, they know what they're doing and it maybe over used and not done properly by most (like 80%), but there not getting any good suggetions- only complaints (I put Dick Button's non-constructive criticism in there as well).
Also note that this thread was started in commenting about a picture of a "Free" move during a spiral sequence. Not even the Biellmann.
This is figure skating, that is really all there is to it. It has all aspects of performance and theater combine into a area of compitition. That is what is is.
Feel like I have said this a hundred times to children with fingers in their ears. - just a feeling, maybe I'm wrong.
It is easy to say "do some thing new," but I am sure it is hard for them to acutely find that new move.
I started about "ugly positions," maybe there we can get a clear understanding what the skaters are doing on their own accord or possibly due to pressure of a new scoring sys, never know.
Yet I am not looking for "flashing"
but worry more about the types who ONLY see it in that way. There is a element of impressiveness that makes it appealing to a person who admires beauty more when it is accomplishing something that requires achieving talent through persistence. As far as the ballet thing goes, this is really where figure skating moves evolved from, so that is rather redundant to say. Don't forget this is a performing sport. As for all my guy friends that think it's sexy, that's fine too, and will defend their right to see that aspect of the sport. As far as the skaters are concerned, well I can only be speculative here, they know what they're doing and it maybe over used and not done properly by most (like 80%), but there not getting any good suggetions- only complaints (I put Dick Button's non-constructive criticism in there as well).
Also note that this thread was started in commenting about a picture of a "Free" move during a spiral sequence. Not even the Biellmann.
This is figure skating, that is really all there is to it. It has all aspects of performance and theater combine into a area of compitition. That is what is is.
Feel like I have said this a hundred times to children with fingers in their ears. - just a feeling, maybe I'm wrong.
It is easy to say "do some thing new," but I am sure it is hard for them to acutely find that new move.
I started about "ugly positions," maybe there we can get a clear understanding what the skaters are doing on their own accord or possibly due to pressure of a new scoring sys, never know.
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- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
Are Biellman's getting out of control? Duh. Yes. But are Shizuka's moves? No. She is taking the transitions and spirals to a whole different level that nobody else is on.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Everyone seems to be doing that same catch-foot spiral. Here's Sasha.
http://www.miezekatze.net/images/worlds04/pictures/Sasha2.jpg
It's the letting go part that makes Shizuka's stand out from the pack.
MM
http://www.miezekatze.net/images/worlds04/pictures/Sasha2.jpg
It's the letting go part that makes Shizuka's stand out from the pack.
MM
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
Well, Shizuka also did at the Olympics was a TRUE Y spiral (the letting go makes it especially special)... with her left arm and left leg making half the y and the right arm making the other. What Alissa has been doing this season is a Bow and Arrow (spare that last linked picture of her)... she catches her leg with the opposing arm and shoots the other arm out horizontally to look like... a bow and arrow... at least that is what they were called in dance/cheerleading. The Y and the Bow and Arrow while they look the same are different in the way you balance while holding them... so I, personally, wouldn't consider them to be the same spiral position. Sorry if I am being too pedantic... 
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
Can't belive I went herew again?
Anyway, to answer the question, NOT NECESSARILY THE BEILLMANN BUT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE DOING IT.
Sorry about the tirade, that was not pretty. Just didn't like the accusation, as I was accusing - moment of stupidity. Apologies again.
It maybe that most of you have never visited the "wrong forum" when talking about figure skating. If not, you are lucky!
This one is by far the best. I would have been here earlier but the gold skate idea itself (literally) was never my idea of "real."
Anyway, to answer the question, NOT NECESSARILY THE BEILLMANN BUT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE DOING IT.
Sorry about the tirade, that was not pretty. Just didn't like the accusation, as I was accusing - moment of stupidity. Apologies again.
It maybe that most of you have never visited the "wrong forum" when talking about figure skating. If not, you are lucky!
This one is by far the best. I would have been here earlier but the gold skate idea itself (literally) was never my idea of "real."