Argentine tango twizzle

[Flying Feijoa]

Hi ice-dancing folk! I was just wondering about the infamous ladies' half-twizzle - is it important for the entry edge to be a clean LFO all the way to the cusp, i.e. basically a counter with a very short exit edge? My coach (who competed several decades ago) teaches it a bit like the end of the Paso Doble (where the Paso has a RFO changing briefly to inside before the RFI mohawk that restarts the pattern, so the Argentine would be LFO with a split-second edge change as the leg returns, making a very flat short LFI3). The step chart doesn't mention any brief edge change though. I took a look at the Nagano Olympic compulsories and noticed the teams in the clip seem to favour a brief flattening, but at this week's JGP rhythm dance event I also heard Mark Hanretty describe the step as a'swing counter-twizzle', and indeed the junior teams did seem to be trying to cling onto the outside edge the whole way. Is this just individual variation in technique, or did something change with the judging specifications since 1998?

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Hi ice-dancing folk! I was just wondering about the infamous ladies' half-twizzle - is it important for the entry edge to be a clean LFO all the way to the cusp, i.e. basically a counter with a very short exit edge? My coach (who competed several decades ago) teaches it a bit like the end of the Paso Doble (where the Paso has a RFO changing briefly to inside before the RFI mohawk that restarts the pattern, so the Argentine would be LFO with a split-second edge change as the leg returns, making a very flat short LFI3). The step chart doesn't mention any brief edge change though. I took a look at the Nagano Olympic compulsories and noticed the teams in the clip seem to favour a brief flattening, but at this week's JGP rhythm dance event I also heard Mark Hanretty describe the step as a'swing counter-twizzle', and indeed the junior teams did seem to be trying to cling onto the outside edge the whole way. Is this just individual variation in technique, or did something change with the judging specifications since 1998?

The pattern chart here is a bible.
within it, the step for woman is actually described as a sw-"tw1", indicating a swing then a "twizzle like motion." I can't see counter specified, and actually the counter is part of the "twizzle like motion".
As a man I don't tend to focus on the woman's steps when skating it, but I've always been taught it as a counter twizzle. However I don't think it needs to be a counter from what I've read in the pattern dance step chart and the pattern map.
Feel free to correct me though for whoever is more familiar with this dance.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

"This step is a left forward outside edge for both ending in a forward clockwise “twizzle-like motion” for the lady (“Tw1) – her body turns one full continuous rotation, the skating foot does not technically execute a full turn, followed by a step forward) and a swing open Choctaw for the man turned between count 4 and count 1 of the next measure. During the twizzle the lady has her weight on the left foot but caries the right foot close beside it. While executing steps 21 to 23 the lady must skate hip to hip with the man, her tracing following his. After this move is completed the couple moves into closed hold."
​

This is how it is instructed in the ISU rulebook and is described much better that I can put into words rather than showing you how it works by executing the steps properly with partner lol! It's much easier to understand if shown how it works while describing it. But for all purposes here we only have description to go by and ISU rulebook is the way.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Thanks dancers for weighing in
When my coach shows it to me, it looks basically like how the Nagano teams did it - a very smooth and quick turn right after hitting the full extension. Now that I think about it, the rulebook has probably not changed since she/they competed, and judges definitely were fine with their way. So I guess it's better to follow their examples than the junior teams this week, who (adorable though they are) mostly missed the twizzle keypoint!

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Thanks dancers for weighing in
When my coach shows it to me, it looks basically like how the Nagano teams did it - a very smooth and quick turn right after hitting the full extension. Now that I think about it, the rulebook has probably not changed since she/they competed, and judges definitely were fine with their way. So I guess it's better to follow their examples than the junior teams this week, who (adorable though they are) mostly missed the twizzle keypoint!

It's interesting to go back and compare the styles of skaters doing it - some aggressive and powerful and some neat and precise. Key points are very hard to get, as they need to be done perfectly - and that includes steps before and after, so I don't blame the juniors for missing them!!!

rather than showing you how it works by executing the steps properly with partner lol! It's much easier to understand if shown how it works while describing it.​

You might be much better than me, but if I was with you I'd happily be your partner to demonstrate!

 

[Kitt]

See above posts if you think ice dancing is easy!!!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

See above posts if you think ice dancing is easy!!!

And that's only several steps in the middle of one rhythm pattern above LOL!

 

[Kitt]

I have enough trouble staying on outside edge going backwards in the Swing Dance!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You might be much better than me, but if I was with you I'd happily be your partner to demonstrate!

This was very sweet.