Article: Michelle Kwan: The Kwaniacs Attack!

[R.D.]

Everyone is biased. "Non-fans" are biased as well. You have been berated by a few overzealous Kwan fans, thus, in a sense, you have developed a bias towards Kwan fans in general. So, naturally, your theory regarding Kwan fans would apply to you and how you view Kwan fans.

I realize this and I believe I've mentioned this fact several times in my postings as well.

I've been saying all along that the problems occurring are PERSONAL. People are taking comments, i.e. slights toward their favorite skater PERSONALLY. If people didn't take things PERSONAL, I bet the amount of infighting would be at least cut in half. Everybody on both sides is guilty of this, me included.

I think I've mentioned many times before that since a few select kwanfans chose to attack me personally, it's allowed me to feel less sympathy for these fans. THAT's my bias folks. That's where I come from. But I'm simply trying to put this issue out in the open because I feel it's important. How many times have you opened a thread only to see pointless bashing and catfighting? I do not think it does the rest of the fans here a favor to see all this when they come simply to read/have skating discussions.

I realize this is a controversial and touchy issue, and PMs have been thrown around over the years. I don't think that really solves this though. Personally I think this needs to be out there. If one is not involved in the issue it's easy to post wishing for it to go away, but it WON'T unless it is dealt with somehow. Just My Opinion...

 

[swannanoa54]

OMG, I finally got it! Bronzeisgolden, I've seen your name so many times and I guess I'm just slower than molasses on a cold plate in winter! I've been trying to figure that out forever! Ok, not forever, but long enough to make me feel like some kinda doofus!

 

[millie]

What we need now is an arbitrator to judge this debate on fans and non-fans. That is the only way this is going to be solved! Red Dog, I think that you are going to have to talk until you are blue in the face to make them understand what it means to be a non-fan and your feelings about this subject. The non-fans understand the point that you are trying to make(I would if I could). Good Luck and "May the force be with you".

 

[Kwanford Wife]

With MK I think we Kwaniacs feel that she has a sense of entitlement to keep winning those titles. I know with her quest for the OGM I personally feel that she deserves it because of all she has accomplished even though I know it is supposed to go to the best skater on that particular night. I think it's this kind of thinking that's behind the "MK is injured, how unfair". She's played the game, she's played fairly, she's represented the sport and her country well so give her the d*** OGM already, LOL!

:yes:

Piel, as usual, you have hit the nail on the head!

Here's the deal ~ I am an unapologetic "Kwaniac" but like a poster over at FSU pointed out... nobody came out of this catfight looking good... it dissolved into the on-line equivanlent of a knife fight and I'm totally confused as to the how or why...

I'm also confused as to how the same thing is happening over here at GSF... We're supposed to be the mature forum...

 

[R.D.]

Millie- Thanks, I try my best

But seriously, I want to look at the big picture. Enough about fans and nonfans, Kwan fans and Kwan haters.

I think that the amount of fights here have been increasing because tensions are rising due to the upcoming Olympic season. I think we are allowing our emotions to take over when we make certain comments. I'm guilty of this, and I think all of us are to some degree. I hate to play moderator here (especially since I'm not, lol) but I think it would be best for us all if we could work to minimize these unnecessary fights.

I think whenever a person chooses to react negatively to a comment, one of three things are happening (and they each build on each other)

1) the person disagrees with the comment, 2) the person thinks the comment is just plain ridiculous, and 3) the person takes offense to the comment, i.e. takes the comment personally, even though the remark isn't aimed at her but her favorite (skater).

I think that if we focus more on attacking viewpoints instead of each other (debates, not personal arguments) the amount of these unnecessary fights will be seriously dented. If we try to keep emotions as much in check as possible whenever we respond to a comment that we totally disagree with, and focus on getting at the viewpoint instead of the person behind the viewpoint, I think that's when this issue between fans and nonfans will improve. This is not to mention that the two sides understand where each other is coming from.

Now, please understand that my attempt is NOT to tell people how to post (I hate to do that). It is simply to bring awareness to this issue and what is going on, and to offer a "middle ground" for resolving it. That's my only intent. I do this with good intentions, not an agenda.

Peace,

 

[BronzeisGolden]

What we need now is an arbitrator to judge this debate on fans and non-fans. That is the only way this is going to be solved! Red Dog, I think that you are going to have to talk until you are blue in the face to make them understand what it means to be a non-fan and your feelings about this subject. The non-fans understand the point that you are trying to make(I would if I could). Good Luck and "May the force be with you"

Millie, honestly, I don't think adopting an us vs. them mentality helps anything. And, I don't mean that in a snide way....I'm just being honest. That is never a good way to look at anything. And, is it that people are really confused about the non-fan/fan issue? Or, is it that people are more confused about what the real, underlying issue is?

Excellent post, Red Dog. I am in total agreement. I think that is the central issue here. We all need to be more thoughtful towards one another and think about what we say and how we say it. I'm not saying that everything should be rainbows and sunshine, but it doesn't hurt to respect people and to argue in a constructive, non-hostile/defensive manner.

 

[millie]

"Right back at you" Bronzeis Golden.
Excellent point from a non-fan.

 

[R.D.]

Millie- I'm sorry but I must side with BG on this one. Clearly making it nonfans vs. Kwan fans didn't get us anywhere.

 

[mpal2]

BronzeisGolden,

Exactly, I was trying to get to that point but you made it perfectly. I feel that picking on one side only throws gasoline on a fire. Two sides argue. Either someone backs down from the fray and decides to let it go or it just escalates.

I want to add that I think the exact number of "rabid" posters are extremely small but extremely good at getting the sane to act insane. I think a lot of what is considered rabid behavior is exasperation and an emotional response to something. Sometimes the one who looks the most guilty of provocation is not the one stirring the pots.

This sounds crazy, but let me explain with a cat story. I had a cat Mijo who was the boss of the house. My sister moved in with Bailey who had been the boss of his house. Instant personality conflict. When both were in the room, it always ended with Bailey racing across the room and smacking Mijo around. Bailey would get banished to the bedroom for a time out and Mijo would get hugs and kisses. We eventually found out who really instigated the fight. Mijo would stare across the room at Bailey and then flatten his ears. Insignificant movement to the humans but it set Bailey off every time. And Mijo got rewarded for bad behavior. Bailey would have stayed on the other side of the room if Mijo hadn't instigated an incident.

If a cat can figure out how to do that, so can humans. It doesn't make the emotional response right, but it doesn't always indicate the source of the problem. I'm just asking that people consider this when you run across the emotional vent. We can all work on controlling the response when the emotional buttons are pushed, but I think we can also give a little slack every now and then when that type of response has us rolling our eyes.

 

[Mathman]

Red Dog, I just got such a sweet PM from Bronzeisgolden that it made me want to delete my last unpleasant post.

I do think that this discussion has run its course, however, and we should get back to skating.

Mathman

 

[R.D.]

Well folks, I think I've made my point already- many times. I suppose if anyone wants to discuss this further they can contact me.

I think later, on down the road you all will really see what my true intentions were by continuing this discussion.

This will be my last comment in this thread, as I also would like to get back to skating- with no friction.

 

[millie]

"Right back at you Red Dog"
PEACE

 

[gezando]

I see most MK's fans are well educated, financially independent in a well successful society.

I think there is nothing wrong with stating the conclusion of your deduction.

I don't think it is necessary to put every single Kwan fan in the US in a room and survey them, professional pollsters don't put everyone in the US in a room, they poll a sample population.

 

[Excidra2001]

re:

Well, it's just my opinion and based on what I read through the borads and net. If you ever read enough.......And I'd appreciate before you calling on my crystal ball, don't use your own crystall ball to judge how stupide I'm. You have no idea.

I believe there is statics shown the more educated ppl, the more fianatially success.

Mzeng, I don't know if you are aware of it, but sometimes you state "supposed facts" and I don't know how you come to that conclusion although if you told me that you surveyed most Kwan fans and thats the end result, then it would be more believable. But you can't post facts at boards and have nothing to back it up with, other then its your opinion or reading "through boards and net".

 

[Kuchana]

I think it depends on the perspective a person takes when considering whether a post is a bash or not. Just like when considering "supposed facts" it may be considered as such by one by not so by another. As for myself, I found a lot of the posts that Piel posted as an example of bashing, eloquently explained by her.

And it is of my opinion and perhaps my bias (who doesn't have one anyways really?) that when you make a remark that is malicious, then that is considered bashing as it deprives anyone respect, which is the ideal but sometimes not realized.

 

[antmanb]

I certainly can't deduce from your posts, since you are not talking so much of your personal stuf. But...

From what I deduced? I said in my first post, the way so a lot of MK fans have the means to attend different FS event where she appares. Some were following her to different competetions, to the point that the other side complained so much. At least they are finiantially well being to be able to afford attending several FS events.....there is statistics data shown for most population, the more educated ppl, the better fianantially off.........Call fellow poster stupid? Is this violate GS rule? .......:If you can't get other ppl's deduction doesn't mean they are stupid or should be called the stupid......frown2: :sheesh: You have no idea how "stupid" I am to be able to make a very good living in a foreign country!

Precisely - you can't deduce a thing about me from my posts...and how many other posters fall into that category with you? Give it up already!!! The point i was making is that you don't even know who all of michelle kwan's fans are so you certainly can't go about generalising about what "the majority of michelle kwan fans" think, feel, do for a living etc etc. I think it is a sign of very high stupidity to make such sweeping statements without so much as the tiniest amount of proof or evidence. Feel free to make the statements all day long but i will point out the stupidity of doing so every time! I'm starting to think the article that was orginally posted was written about people like you!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I think you'd know, that number of MK fans so irited in those competetion to cause that iritation around the web, the number must be big enough. Maybe the most of total number of her fans is bit exagerated. But compare to the others still a big number....

Besides was the original compains about those "unhappy middle-aged frumps" aimed for those who atted the events? and according to Ant's the original complainers certainly can't deduce his/her conclude from the ones posted at certain board.

I hate it when ppl took the qoute of my post out of the contexts....read my original one (qoute and my comments), I know you don't have the time for it.

I would if you wrote intellgiible English - unfortunately "can't deduce his/her conclude from the ones..." make no sense and i have no idea what you're trying to say.

Ant

 

[Piel]

I would if you wrote intellgiible English - unfortunately "can't deduce his/her conclude from the ones..." make no sense and i have no idea what you're trying to say.

Ant

Ant, please remember that English may not be the first language of everyone at GS. Sometimes when I can't understand a post if I go back and read it again in context I realize it is not the poster's language skills that are lacking but MY level of understanding. Mzheng is a very knowledgible poster especially about Kwan and her fanbase. She has yet to steer us wrong on anything Kwan related.

From personal experience and from statistics released about FS fans, especially since the Nancy/Tonya when interest increased so much I have concluded this. FS is most popular with skaters and their families followed by women aged 30-60 who also have the most expendable income and are willing to spend it on things like attending FS events. Personally I have found that female teachers, nurses, and other professional women tend to attend FS events. Kwan's fans tend to be older. This may be that a lot of her fans have been following her for the last ten years and us old folks are the only people with the patience to sit through all of those boring performances she puts out year after year . What Mzheng said about Kwan fans could very well be true. Remember the original statement about frumpy, middleaged women and references to the Kwan army (so many fans) did not come from Mzheng. What we know is true is this: In the U.S. Kwan has more fans than other skaters. Fans who attend FS events have to spend a lot of money to do so.

 

[antmanb]

Ant, please remember that English may not be the first language of everyone at GS.

I never forget that since English isn't my first language either . I have, however, spent a considerable time living and working in the UK. Apologies for being rude, i was just riled by the numerous opinions that were being stated as facts which i think are just as bad as the original things being said in the article.

Ant

 

[mzheng]

I never forget that since English isn't my first language either . I have, however, spent a considerable time living and working in the UK. Apologies for being rude, i was just riled by the numerous opinions that were being stated as facts which i think are just as bad as the original things being said in the article.

Ant

Did I say it as a fact?

On contrary, I see most MK's fans are well educated, financially independent in a well successful society.

May be my english is not as good as yours. I took it "see" as something like "IMO". (as it could be in my native language.)