Artist, Performer, or Jumper? Ladies Edition

[andy08]

THANK YOU!!!
Wonderful perf from Mao A. ...Just moved me...
For me is pure ART! Is when you feel this lightness even with so strong/difficult element ...

 

[skaterr]

Thread like this always amuse me. It always says more about the poster than the skating or the skaters themselves.

The fact you are discussing some thing so abstract that categorization itself is entirely insufficient. Especially without context without reference to 'specific' work, 'specific' moments, 'specific' reasons. Or in this sport 'specific' choreograph movement, specific 'elements' at 'specific' competitions makes the whole exercise a huge waste of time. Not all art work are equal, poor artist can make great art, great artist can't produce great art all the time. Sometime of the greatest arts are actually a happy accident, circumstance, historical precedence that can elevate a well conceived art into great art, or even poor crass piece of work into something more profound.

For me, work can NEVER be examined in stagnation, it is always its after life that speaks its real worth. Its impact, influence and its reverence. Every artist may have different life experience that makes them unique. but just because you are younger and have less life experience doesn't mean you can't create something that moves and touches people as Julia has done. If Julia has done this when she is 21 even if she had improve her craft, her artistry, her ability to express and present more fully with all the finesse and the polish of a prima ballerina on ice would have done, actually I would say her Schindler's list would be more wholly artificial, mundane and even poor taste short of emotional blackmail that she really should have known better. Artists that are head strong, reckless and single and simple minded mixes with incredible sensitivity and empathy have all the qualities that can create great work, at the same time destroy them if they played safe and attempt to replicate previous success trying too hard. It is also about the right work at the right time at the right age. A teen bopper Carmen and a mature lady Carmen should be expected to be realised differently at different ages even with the exact same choreography. I really doubt John Curry started off going 'That's it I am going to change Men's figure skating forever and create great pieces of artistic performance that is going to be revered in years to come' as oppose to something he likes and find appealing, yet people attach his name to offer something of more elitest leaning in Men's skating decades on. I'd even go as far as to say, some of the greatest art created was never created as art, but some how ends up real, authentic, original, in the moment, transcendent that can touches people and inspire secondary waves of work that takes them on a journey outside their comfort zone and make them think beyond. To continue revisit the work and reference them that makes them ultimately a worthy piece of work. It is only through willingness to experiment, play, take risks, try to diversify and broaden one's horizon and step outside comfort zone can one elevate someone to become an artists. It is also in the delicate balance. I know which skaters appeals to me in all aspects and there are very few in this sport. Especially under the COP system.

You always amaze me

 

[gotoschool]

This timeless program perfectly describes all categories, PERFORMER, JUMPER and ARTISTRY at its finest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GfZW03lM4

The step sequence moves me deeply almost as much as her Rach 2 does. Too beautiful!

 

[Franklin99]

This timeless program perfectly describes all categories, PERFORMER, JUMPER and ARTISTRY at its finest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GfZW03lM4

I don't think I've ever seen her World's SP version, and it is indeed beautiful.

I think most Figure Skaters have the capabilities of fulfilling those three categories. It's all in the matter of how well and when they presented it to the audience that we see it. And it's usually more visible when said skater performs mistakes free, although some, (like Mao, Kwan, Chan, and Dai) are still able to display the big three even when performing with mistakes.

 

[jenm]

This timeless program perfectly describes all categories, PERFORMER, JUMPER and ARTISTRY at its finest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GfZW03lM4

That step sequence

This is the reason why I love and miss both Yuna and Mao in competition. During their era, they're both able to give great performances that highlight all three categories mentioned in this thread. They have power, charisma and artistry. They have the qualities that draw you in and ask for more. Although, I would credit Yuna more on the Jumper category because her jumps are just perfect all throughout (take-off, air position, landing and power). But Mao has killer step sequence that I've never seen Yuna do.

Both of them are legends in their own right.

 

[satine]

That step sequence

This is the reason why I love and miss both Yuna and Mao in competition. During their era, they're both able to give great performances that highlight all three categories mentioned in this thread. They have power, charisma and artistry. They have the qualities that draw you in and ask for more. Although, I would credit Yuna more on the Jumper category because her jumps are just perfect all throughout (take-off, air position, landing and power). But Mao has killer step sequence that I've never seen Yuna do.

Both of them are legends in their own right.

My two favorites!

 

[kwanatic]

^^Definitely. Mao's skating was just amazingly elegant and she has this ethereal grace and lightness that is unmatched. Never seen anything like it... And Yu-Na was every bit as elegant as Mao, but rather than ethereal grace she had this sort of regal power about her. She commanded the ice in a way very few manage to do.

Both of them were remarkable skaters.

 

[aa456]

For me, it's hard to explain the difference b/w a performer and an artist. Several of the names discussed here belong in both. I guess to me, an artistic skate is when a skater is so in-tune with their program that they become the music. Whenever I think of an artistic skate, Mao's Nocturne 2.0 comes to mind. It started off as a good program with a lot of potential but by the time the GPF rolled around she was literally painting on ice. I still tear up watching that performance, she just fills your heart! Yuna Danse Macabre also comes to mind. There was so much energy, so much musicality during her worlds SP! It really was bewitching.

 

[Ophelia]

^^Definitely. Mao's skating was just amazingly elegant and she has this ethereal grace and lightness that is unmatched. Never seen anything like it... And Yu-Na was every bit as elegant as Mao, but rather than ethereal grace she had this sort of regal power about her. She commanded the ice in a way very few manage to do.

Both of them were remarkable skaters.

Elegant isn't one of the foremost words I think of when I watch Asada's skating. For me, the words graceful, light, delicate, and nimble would come first. She makes me think of one of those ballerinas atop a music box.

For Kim, it would be crystalline (more than any other word), pure, elegiac/elegant, fluid, and grand. There's both power and lightness to her skating that's one of a kind since those two qualities are contradictory together.

Kostner's the skater that the word elegant pops up first for me. That and sensual and rich.

 

[kiara_bleu]

Elegant isn't one of the foremost words I think of when I watch Asada's skating. For me, the words graceful, light, delicate, and nimble would come first. She makes me think of one of those ballerinas atop a music box.

For Kim, it would be crystalline (more than any other word), pure, elegiac/elegant, and grand. There's both power and lightness to her skating that's one of a kind since those two qualities are contradictory together.

Kostner's the skater that the word elegant pops up first for me. That and sensual and rich.

What a perfect way to describe these three amazing skaters. Ugh, miss having them on the scene so much. I hope these current crop of skaters push each other to be great the way these three did.

Question: Current competitive ladies skater's have shown performance skills and jumping ability but who do you think has shown some artistry? Or who has the potential for it?

 

[Ophelia]

^Karen Chen and Evegnia M. have the potential Mayyyybe Soyoun Park if she gains consistency, confidence, and learns to emote more.

@aa456, Radianova, to me, is an example of a skater who is a performer but not (quite) an artist.

 

[aa456]

^Karen Chen and Evegnia M. have the potential Mayyyybe Soyoun Park if she gains consistency, confidence, and learns to emote more.

@aa456, Radianova, to me, is an example of a skater who is a performer but not (quite) an artist.

I agree about Elena. She's definitely a performer. I personally think artistry can take years to develop and Elena is too young to be quite there yet. I feel Satoko also has potential.

 

[corinthia]

Saying someone needs to have extreme flexibility to be an artist is no more silly than saying someone who has extreme flexibility can't be an artist. I don't see what one has to do with the other :confused2:

S-S, for what it's worth, it was clear to me what you were getting at in the first quote... that you certainly were not saying "someone who has extreme flexibility can't be an artist", nor were you implying that jenaj or anybody else had said so.

To me, it was clear that you were using "someone who has extreme flexibility can't be an artist" as an EXAMPLE of an obviously silly statement regarding flexibility and artistry, something so obviously silly that there is no need to debate or explain that it is silly.

And then from there, stating your opinion that assuming "someone needs to have extreme flexibility to be an artist" would be just as silly to you.

Last but not least I do apologize to jenaj for leading her to think I was disagreeing with her or putting words in her mouth. yyyskate is correct...I should have stated that I agree and then add my two cents.

While it's nice of you to apologize for the misunderstanding, I just wanted you to know that the misunderstanding wasn't universal, and that I, personally, rather liked the way you drew a comparison to a silly example, rather than saying a boring generic "yeah I agree".

 

[Sam-Skwantch]