Backflip

[pinky]

I should clarify - I think Kurt joked it was his wedding gift. Or just that he'd promised his wife. And according to Google, I don't have any details about it on my website which is where my Kurt memory resides these days . Ah well.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure he stopped doing the backflip as a result of that injury. Though I have always wondered exactly when he hurt his clavicle or whatever it was, and when he healed, because it seems like that would have been mentioned more in the press when he was an eligible, or would have put a damper in the large number of events he did as a pro in the early 90's. I wasn't a fan back then so I haven't the faintest idea...

I feel like Brian Orser has also done backflip/triple jump combinations. Searching around my Kurt site, I see a review from Holiday Festival on Ice in 2001 listing him as doing a backflip-3toe. Also have him in CSOI the same year doing a backflip into a double... He also did two backflips in a row after retakes at Gotta Skate last year, making Kurt almost fall over =).

Brian Orser has done a backflip/triple toeloop combination in several competitions like this one for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrVx4zrl8BY

I think he has been doing backflips since 1986, because I saw him do one during the 86 Worlds gala. I have also seen him do 3 backflips in a row once in the early 90s.

 

[Tonichelle]

Mathman - I'm just not as determined to find out the whys to everything. If I don't agree with something I research it though, and if not on the ISU website on other skating sites that can explain it.

Personally the backflip is an awesome move, but I don't think it's needed in competition. It's more of a gimick move...

triple twists and throw jumps, however, are athletically challenging and for me are tons of fun to watch and add a lot to the sport of pairs (otherwise get rid of pairs and just do ice dance, right? ha ha)

 

[Fernan]

The backflip is totally legal--in ice dancing.

At the 1998 Olympics, one of the OD requirements are either the rotational lift, or that flip lift that Grischuk/Platov and Punsalan/Swallow performed. I can't find that thing on youtube, but yes--dance legalised the backflip. The man lifts the lady up, and she flips. Torvill and Dean do it also...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsTdzJ_FCKI

 

[Tonichelle]

thanks for the tidbit Fernan! and welcome to the board!

 

[Ladskater]

Brian Orser has pretty much used the backflip as a feature in his programs since turning professional. His is great. I remember Kurt commenting he did try a few but decided it was too dangerous. I beleive we had a female competitor years ago from Vancouver BC - I think her name was Ruth Hutchinson - who tried practicing a back flip in the parking lot before a competiton. She broke her arm and had to withdraw. Don't quote me on this story though, it's been a few years. I do remember her breaking her arm.

 

[Tonichelle]

one of my favorite pictures is the one that Scott Hamilton put in his book from Lillehammer where he and Brian found some ice and did side by side back flips, you could really tell the height Brian gets on his...

 

[Fernan]

thanks for the tidbit Fernan! and welcome to the board!

thanks for the warm welcome, tonichelle =)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Maybe the ones you want to ban in particular, but there have been moves banned. So you are not the only one who thinks that there should be "moves banned." The sentiment at least is a shared one or there wouldn't have been any banned. So I think you are bringing up some interesting points for consideration, and just caz some disagree with you doesn't at all mean you are wrong. I could be way wrong - it is not uncommon

Oh Seanibu - I miss a good triple walley and a triple inside axel but they've been banned. No reason given so don't look for it Toni especially outside the ISU Rules.

However, a single walley and inside axel are used for footwork, and they do add to the brilliance of a good footwork.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

Oh Seanibu - I miss a good triple walley and a triple inside axel but they've been banned. No reason given so don't look for it Toni especially outside the ISU Rules.
Joe

You can't miss something that has never been done...i think a quad axel is more dooable than a triple walley or a triple inside axel.

And i'm not so sure not having them set out in the code of points has made any difference...skaters were hurting themselves in the 70s trying to land triple axels...no-one was trying to land a double inside axel, or double one foot axel or a double or triple walley.

People may be incentised to try if they were put in the scale of values and with deservedly high base value points but i don't think CoP ever stopped the progression of those jumps into multi revolution ones.

Ant

 

[Zuranthium]

Here's an example with what looks like a double salchow at the end, but I'm close to positive she did the triple too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIauMJCnvuE

Oh no, that's a triple.

Wow.

 

[SeaniBu]

Oh Seanibu - I miss a good triple walley and a triple inside axel but they've been banned.

My point was that your idea of banning something is not "wrong" just that what you want banned and what is being banned, happen to be different. I see your point anyway.

And the ISU rules always have a tendency to leave me wanting more explanation, but it is a rules set I am reading and not a explanation guide, so I am OK not having full closure on an issue. Thats what forum discussions can occasionally give me. It is a matter of accepting it for what it is now and suggesting changes and see what aspires - points of reason and invoking.

BTW, why did they ban the inside Axel? Knee and hip issues?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Seanibu - Ant has his theories on the Inside Axel and Triple Walley above. Apparently we are worried about injuries.

As I reread some of this, I realized that 'ban' is a harsh word and that 'no longer used for scoring' would have made a smoother post. Sorry about that.

On a personal note, I was brought up to question and not to accept something I need an explanation for. I'm just your dyed in the wool liberal selling america down the river so to speak.

As for suggesting changes, I really don't think anything we write would go to the ISU for consideration. But I agree it's worthy of tossing around in a forum.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

how does national politics have anything to do with the ISU? I think people on all sides of the spectrum take issue with the ISU's rulings, past present and future...

questioning isn't political, it's human nature.

that being said, the back flip was an issue back in teh late 70s early 80s... and I think they were trying to nip a problem in teh bud before it got out of control. Before long all the guys would be doing backflips and it would be rather annoying (think the Bielmann last season vs this) I don't think it has a lot to do with the dangers...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Sophisticated joshing is apparently looked down by some on this board.

And then there is all that THINKING and nothing official about skating.

 

[Fernan]

I think the backflip can be effective in the footwork sequence.

 

[Tonichelle]

Sophisticated joshing is apparently looked down by some on this board.

And then there is all that THINKING and nothing official about skating.

Without tone of voice one can never be sure, unless it's clearly marked.

and my 'thinking' is more like deductive reasoning I mean with quads, throws, and the like I can hardly think that backflips are more dangerous... ya know?

who cares about official the ISU certainly doesn't.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

In all seriousness,Toni, I have heard from one top skater that the back flip once it has been learned, is a very easy trick. Much easier than the quad. When I think about it, I have never seen an accident with the back flip in any given show. I have with throws in Pairs (1 in Pittsburgh; 1 in Torino) and Dance (Torino), and those are just among top skaters in recent competitions.

The reason for not allowing the back flip in competition is mute.

Joe

 

[trains]

Surya did do a triple out of her backflip, but I thought it might have been a triple toe. I once saw her do seven triple toes in a row, laughing the whole time while she was practising for a show in Lake Placid.

 

[julietvalcouer]

Moot. Not mute. (Sorry, this gaffe drives me up a wall.) Moot is invalidated, mute is unable to speak.

And if you fall out of a backflip in the midst of it onto a rock-hard surface like ice, you are going to break your neck or back. Career-ending and possibly life-ending injury. Six people in a warmup group trying to warm up backflips? Not my idea of a good time. I'm even leery of lifts that put the woman head-down without any way for her to get her hands free in time to block a fall. If you fall out of, say, a donut spin, you might strain your back or hit your head. Even out of most lifts, there's a chance for the man to save his parter or at least slow her down, and they are rarely in a position to land head-down. In a back flip, there's no way to save yourself if it goes wrong.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Moot. Not mute. (Sorry, this gaffe drives me up a wall.) Moot is invalidated, mute is unable to speak.

And if you fall out of a backflip in the midst of it onto a rock-hard surface like ice, you are going to break your neck or back. Career-ending and possibly life-ending injury. Six people in a warmup group trying to warm up backflips? Not my idea of a good time. I'm even leery of lifts that put the woman head-down without any way for her to get her hands free in time to block a fall. If you fall out of, say, a donut spin, you might strain your back or hit your head. Even out of most lifts, there's a chance for the man to save his parter or at least slow her down, and they are rarely in a position to land head-down. In a back flip, there's no way to save yourself if it goes wrong.

Oh my English. But it's still understood.
Apparently there has never been an accident in Singles regardless of the reports of coaches while the young gals and boys fall and are mamed for life.

There was no way Marin could have saved his partner in Pittsburgh. It is dangerous. There was also that Pairs partner a few years back who still hasn't healed. Yes it is chancy.

However, if we put in the BIG IF, I agree a fall from a back flip, would more than likely leave someone cripple. But how chancy is it when no one has fallen out of a back flip compared with Singles and Pairs?

Joe