Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen

[Interspectator]

Still, it is understandable that people long for Faulkner in a Twitter world.

Personally, I think the whole thing about "IJS is hard to understand; USFS and NBC should explain it better on TV" is sort of missing the point. The casual audience knows that you get points for doing certain tricks and then you get points for "artistic expression." Whoever gets the most points wins. What's hard to understand about that?

The real question, in my mind, about the IJS is whether or not it is responsible for producing paint-by-the-numbers programs that are unlovely and uninteresting. It does seem like the IJS encourages busy but ugly spins, busy footwork and transitions that contribute nothing of value to the program, etc.

VS the 6.0 days that encouraged spins that were 'rest time' and multiple stand and pose sections, crossovers that took up a lot of the program and very few transitions. "He's going for the 3A....still going....going....there it is!" -or not.

But both systems also produced some really great programs that were sublime and gorgeous and difficult, checking off all the boxes of what I want to see in a program. So, 6 of one half-dozen of the other?

 

[Blades of Passion]

Interest in figure skating was already on the decline in the U.S. by the early 2000s. This was before the IJS and while Michelle Kwan was going strong.

I don't think there is any reason, really. Cultural tastes change.

Skating itself became too repetitive and oversaturated, that was largely the problem. Too many low-quality shows and random competitions taking place all over the airwaves and across the country. People were starting to feel they had already seen everything and there wasn't enough impetus to keep following the sport heavily, much less put money into it. I specifically remember going to a show around 2000 and my mom complaining afterwards, saying "the ad said this show starred Olympic skaters! There was nothing Olympic quality about that show!"

 

[Mathman]

VS the 6.0 days that encouraged spins that were 'rest time' and multiple stand and pose sections, crossovers that took up a lot of the program and very few transitions. "He's going for the 3A....still going....going....there it is!" -or not.

But both systems also produced some really great programs that were sublime and gorgeous and difficult, checking off all the boxes of what I want to see in a program. So, 6 of one half-dozen of the other?

I don't know. Somehow I never minded those single position "easy" spins like a fast and well-centered upright blur spin (especially to close a program), or an elegant camel or a classic arabesque layback. I never minded a skater who paced and displayed a highlight element like a triple Axel by bracketing it between a long gliding entry and a controlled flowing exit. I miss the iconic extended spiral (ladies) and spread eagles (men).

In the 6.0 era I seldom felt that the skaters were cramming stuff willi-nilli into quiet and calm portions of their programs where just gliding on the ice would serve the musical structure better.

In so far as figure skating is part performance art, you have to give the viewer something that pleases the eye and alternately excites and sooths the soul.

That's what I think, anyway.

 

[silverfoxes]

Agree with most of the posts here...the sport is not only thriving in Russia and Japan, but becoming more popular in some other places like Spain and Korea thanks to Javier & Yuna. Also, I started watching in the IJS era and I think 6.0 seems more mystifying & even more unfair. Maybe easier on the surface, but not in the way it was applied.

As for this: Stars would have helped: young, consistent, American female stars. But Michelle Kwan has been retired for almost 10 years now, and no one has taken her place. Why must it be a female star? Why do some people act like that's the only discipline that exists? It seems like ice dance is the only area where America is doing relatively well, and Davis/White aren't exactly nobodies...don't they count?

It's a vicious circle...lack of interest means less kids wanting to skate, meaning less talent. I don't know what can turn it around, but the insistence that only a female skater can be a star is a big part of the problem. And lack of simple access to watch. The Russian jr. nationals has a beautiful crystal-clear free Youtube stream, they always air all competitions in full on tv, etc. No way would I pay $50/year for a sketchy online service just to watch US Nats - especially when the talent pool is on the shallow side to begin with.

 

[jcoates]

Why must it be a female star? Why do some people act like that's the only discipline that exists? It seems like ice dance is the only area where America is doing relatively well, and Davis/White aren't exactly nobodies...don't they count?

... but the insistence that only a female skater can be a star is a big part of the problem. And lack of simple access to watch.

100% Agreed. It's funny, Brennan has cornered the market to such an extent among national sportswriters covering skating that I think many of the rest just follow her lead. The tone she sets tends to permeate lots of other skating coverage, especially that done by reporters who have little to no experience with the sport. She's always treated pairs and dance as odd and foreign at best, especially dance. She's not much better with the men. I think the narrative she's set up over the years has made virtually impossible for her to acknowledge that while she's spend the last decade bemoaning the 'death of figure skating in the US', this little discipline called dance has become America's best by light years.

Dave and Jenny made the same point about being too singles focused when recapping sectionals last Fall. Pairs and dance are treated so openly as the disciplines where singles losers go when they realize they can't cut it. That's probably part of why dance was, and pairs continuues to be, so weak in the US for such a long time. While the skaters might have be very talented, they're often so behind the training teams get from the start in countries that value, or at least don't de-value pairs and dance.

 

[Plisskin]

U.S. figure skating declined because we're not winning anything. In the discipline that we do win stuff in, they don't advertise it. USFSA couldn't explain the scoring system to casual fans for the last 10 years and, unlike USAG, haven't gotten with the times and streamed competitions. They still think most people, especially under 40, still watch programs on television. They make the few U.S. fans that still exist either not watch (or watch on an illegal Korean stream) or pay an overcharged fee of 50 USD to watch a low quality, glitchy stream of their own National short programs, monopolized by Ice Network. They only air edited versions of the LP with cheesy fluff pieces on the weekend. The end. And I didn't need to write an annual article like Christine does to answer that either.

 

[noskates]

I think figure skating has declined because basically of what MrRice said - there is NO easy access for the casual fan. Therefore the casual fan doesn't turn into the rabid fan. Without the rabid fan demanding more shows and competitions, etc. the figure skating circuit has fallen way off. I think the cost of figure skating in the US has become almost prohibitive for all but the wealthy. It's very difficult for an elite skater to continue paying for ice time, being coached, purchasing costumes and choreography and traveling unless they have support. Therefore some get discouraged and retire. There have been way too many injuries this year, too. For the men is that because of the quad-centric sport they find themselves in now? The need to add just one more quad or one more triple axel or one more whatever? Yes we aren't winning medals and other countries are forging ahead. You can't blame that on the judging system and I've always thought Christine Brennan was full of hot air anyway. I rarely, if ever, agree with anything she pontificates.... I think there are many reasons for the decline of figure skating and gold medals in this country but not the least of which is exposure to the public!

 

[mrrice]

I feel like every year at Nationals, Brennan just copies and pastes whatever hot take she wrote on figure skating last year into a new word document, tweaks a few things, and submits it.

I agree and she doesn't offer any real solutions. She's a publicity hound and belongs on TMZ. I take NOTHING she says seriously.

 

[Skater Boy]

Well I am sure we can look at many reasons for the fall of skating in the US. The scoring system is unknown and hard to decipher even for the most dedicated sequin or bugle bead lover. It keeps changing one year a triple toe is worth 4 points and the next 4. 2; one year a spiral is in and then it is out and that makes it harder to follow The question is about popularity in the US well dance has generally been the least popular consistently and now it is the best the US has probably. There is a problem with an identifiable champion in men and women. The women keep switching and Gold and Wagner are not consistent on the podium and definitely not at worlds or the Olympics There is no longer even recognizeable or consistent commentators. There was a sense of history with Dicky and Peggy or even Bezic and now whatever. Lack of champions at the individual level especially and skaters people can identify with a skater like Brown is likeable but for whatever reason he doesn't reach a broad range of people (of course there will be some but his q score shows a lack of diversity). And he doesn't have a world medal yet. The biggest male star goes back to 1984 and while a nice guy he looks rather aged. Brian Boitano "skewed" to a relatively limited market. Evan didn' t have much of a chance as figure skating was dying at the pro level when he won. And for whatever reason marketing scores or whatever they call them were not that strong or diverse unlike Kristi Yamaguchi or Michelle Kwan or even Sasha cohen. And the fact that the big stars are from Japan, China and Russia also doesn't help as Americans like to cheer Americans. the people on this site are hardcore (thank goodness) but we are few and far between.

 

[anyanka]

I wonder if it's because there's no one to aspire to, to the general public? The likes of Michelle, Peggy, Dorothy, Kristi, Tara ... they all inspired generations. But they've been replaced as stars by a diaspora of other winter sports that have become huge in the last 10-15 years or so, so maybe young athletes looking for role models look in other sports, like tennis where Serena is the world's undisputed #1. Ashley's a tremendous athlete but to casual fans she's remembered for her "face" in the Sochi Kiss & Cry, and Gracie hasn't broken through despite the Cover Girl campaign (for both actually).

It may also be a function of the economy not doing well. After Kimmie became world champ in 2006 she was on her way up, but around 2008 the crash happened and people tightened their belts, so expenses like figure skating classes had to go. So there wasn't enough investment, and without the awareness of the sport and financial support, in the US it's become a niche for die-hards only, and for casual observers who watch once every four years.

On that note, I'd like to call on Gracie to get her buddy Taylor Swift and her squad to show up at worlds in Boston and Instagram the heck out of it: tweet clips of jumps, programs, the people, etc. and that may interest younger athletes in figure skating. Be visible in the audience. We'll need help from the celebrity world for this one. Combine that by Hillary Clinton giving Michelle Kwan a high-profile role on her campaign and show what a champion can do after skating is over and that may make the sport aspirational once again. Just a thought.

 

[RABID]

Its always because of COP Yet, the sport is doing EXTREMELY well in Japan and arena's in Russia are always full these days. :confused2:

IMO its because the USFSA refused to accept this new system and thought they were big enough that they could fight it. In the end, they lost and this is the result. Their skaters are not medaling in major competitions and are falling behind other countries. Lack of successful/marketable stars = lack of interest = lack of $$$$. Now, its probably not even salvageable.

I have a feeling it's more than one thing. Obviously the current judging system is STILL controversial and at the very least that and sequins doesn't help. Both the men and women are chronically stacked with middling talent and the fact that America is very nationalistic and has little time for something THEY vicariously don't excel in also doesn't help. And then there is the proliferation of other sports which have grown in prominence and official acceptance. And can't forget about cable/satellite TV and the Internet which has had a profound effect EVERYWHERE. The list goes on. But probably the biggest problem is the lack of urgency by the powers that be (both nationally and internationally) to acknowledge that this is a new world and that they no longer have the luxury to be complacent about the failings and state of their sport.

 

[RABID]

I don't know. Somehow I never minded those single position "easy" spins like a fast and well-centered upright blur spin (especially to close a program), or an elegant camel or a classic arabesque layback. I never minded a skater who paced and displayed a highlight element like a triple Axel by bracketing it between a long gliding entry and a controlled flowing exit. I miss the iconic extended spiral (ladies) and spread eagles (men).

In the 6.0 era I seldom felt that the skaters were cramming stuff willi-nilli into quiet and calm portions of their programs where just gliding on the ice would serve the musical structure better.

In so far as figure skating is part performance art, you have to give the viewer something that pleases the eye and alternately excites and sooths the soul.

That's what I think, anyway.

The thing is in the last Olympics there were skaters (no names) giving quality 6.0 era performances WITH the necessary number of competitive components which the judges under the current system could have rewarded and they chose instead to reward the "busy" program. But they didn't have to; the judging rules didn't force their hands. You can still get quality and beautiful programs under this scoring system. Seems to me that it is the judges and the not the judging rules that still have a say in which direction figure skating can go. Judges just need to understand that THAT is what they are responsible for; IF they want art, all they have to do is look for it and reward it when they see it.

 

[Lenny318]

I think figure skating has declined because basically of what MrRice said - there is NO easy access for the casual fan. Therefore the casual fan doesn't turn into the rabid fan.

Idk why reading this made me think of how Jason's Riverdance went viral probably in part due to the fact that it was posted to Youtube (and eventually to BuzzFeed) which is more easily accessible to casual watchers who thought "wow what a performance this better win the Olympics!". Those 700K-1 million+ views (when you account for views from different uploads of the same performance) were not all figure skating fans who watched it over and over again (I'm sure a decent amount were).

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Well Ice Network is doing its part to make it as difficult as possible for fans to see.

Lack of interest isn't helping to build any buzz worthy moments for the fans and skaters to partake in

Russian Jr Nationals was easily seen today by any figure skating fan. US Nationals....not so much

 

[Interspectator]

Well Ice Network is doing its part to make it as difficult as possible for fans to see.

Lack of interest isn't helping to build any buzz worthy moments for the fans and skaters to partake in

Russian Jr Nationals was easily seen today by any figure skating fan. US Nationals....not so much

It's possible that the Koreans and Japanese were more interested in seeing the American Nationals than anyone in the States.
Thank you Korean Streaming.

 

[BlackPack]

Brennan's years of trash-talking skating partially contributed to its downfall. I'm amazed that so many honest, hard-working people are out of a job and she isn't.

 

[waxel]

This is actually quite a compelling thread. I suspected it would be a mere Brennan trashfest, but no... it's thoughtful. Brennan has "reported" the same thing for ten years... and I can't quite say I disagree with her main facts. But Christine, while dismissing the sport that made you one-time-famous-ish... how about some solutions? Any ideas how to fix it?

I also have to call out the old-time, fussy "I'm not paying to watch skating on that damned cable or newfangled interweb... no siree" types. Well then, you're just not likely to see much skating these days. Why would anyone say icenetwork.com has made it harder for fans to see? That's just foolish. I've been an IN subscriber from day one... it has ranged in price (and I think still does) between $25 (for USFS members) and $49. As a new business, the beginning quality was rough... and it sometimes, though rarely, still is. (Hey, IN... are you reading? The feed from St. Paul has been CRAP!). But for the price of one modest meal (say 2 for $25, 4 for $49), you can see every skating event held in the US (including ALL of Regionals, Sectionals, Nats), and many other competitions throughout the world ( including basically all of every GP, as well as Europeans, 4CC, Worlds and much more). The major networks don't want it. How is that making it harder for fans?

There are more entertainment/sporting options today than ever before. This is part of the issue. IJS is also part of the issue. There's just no way a casual fan can understand the complexities... how can we build stars like Kwan but blah, blah blah. Do I have the answer? Obviously not. But when I read this thread, the concerns I see are shared concerns. I hope someone figures it out. Please.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I also have to call out the old-time, fussy "I'm not paying to watch skating on that damned cable or newfangled interweb... no siree" types. Well then, you're just not likely to see much skating these days. Why would anyone say icenetwork.com has made it harder for fans to see?

Completely disagree. I'm no old fuddy duddy non internetin' fool either. I just see the fact that IN is something I'm not interested in paying for. There is better skating elsewhere and they seem much more intent on promoting it. I go to NHL games but I watch the games on TV for free.

What year was IN created and when did ratings start to plummet in the US?

 

[Tavi...]

Well I am sure we can look at many reasons for the fall of skating in the US. The scoring system is unknown and hard to decipher even for the most dedicated sequin or bugle bead lover. It keeps changing one year a triple toe is worth 4 points and the next 4. 2; one year a spiral is in and then it is out and that makes it harder to follow The question is about popularity in the US well dance has generally been the least popular consistently and now it is the best the US has probably. There is a problem with an identifiable champion in men and women. The women keep switching and Gold and Wagner are not consistent on the podium and definitely not at worlds or the Olympics There is no longer even recognizeable or consistent commentators. There was a sense of history with Dicky and Peggy or even Bezic and now whatever. Lack of champions at the individual level especially and skaters people can identify with a skater like Brown is likeable but for whatever reason he doesn't reach a broad range of people (of course there will be some but his q score shows a lack of diversity). And he doesn't have a world medal yet. The biggest male star goes back to 1984 and while a nice guy he looks rather aged. Brian Boitano "skewed" to a relatively limited market. Evan didn' t have much of a chance as figure skating was dying at the pro level when he won. And for whatever reason marketing scores or whatever they call them were not that strong or diverse unlike Kristi Yamaguchi or Michelle Kwan or even Sasha cohen. And the fact that the big stars are from Japan, China and Russia also doesn't help as Americans like to cheer Americans. the people on this site are hardcore (thank goodness) but we are few and far between.

What is a q score, how do you know what Jason's is and what do you mean by lack of diversity?

Among other things, my observation in watching competitions live / on icenetwork is that the skating audience in the US is itself not very diverse.

I'm not sure what the 5 million plus views of Riverdance (old clip taken down plus still existing clips) means but it suggests he has the potential to attract fans to the sport.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Q Score = Qualifying Score