Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen

[jcoates]

If the success of a country's athletes is partially dependent upon how popular the sport is (thus attracting new potential talent) how in the heck has the US become an ice dancing powerhouse when it's generally considered to be the least popular discipline?

Not really arguing anything here, but it really just blows my mind that the US has so much depth of talent in ice dance in spite of the fact that it receives very little attention. Especially when considering ice dance is similar to pairs in that it takes 2 people. American pairs all split up all the time, but ice dancers stay together?

It's been almost entirely accidental IMO. Certainly not something USFS planned or put all that much effort into. US champs have been coached by Shpilband or Zoueva to most, if not all, of the national titles since 1992. The top four teams all have foreign, or foreign-born coaches who learned their craft elsewhere. Shpilband is a US citizen now. but he ended up here under less than ideal circumstances. He certainly wasn't recruited to come over to build an ice dance empire.

After he set the trend, other Russian coaches, set up shot here as well. Tarasova, Dubova and Linchuk who never really invested in grass roots training of Americans in their early years here, so I don't count them in the conversation. Now, you have Russian led schools in not just Michigan with Zoueva and Krylova, but here in DC as well where the top two junior dance teams in the US and the world are trained. Plus there's the Montreal school which has roots with Zazoui in France.

 

[Mathman]

^ This is very interesting, because this is the way way that American enterprise is supposed to work. An individual (Shpilband, Zoueva) gets a bright idea, works hard and eventually achieves success.

The alternative would be a top down model. The mighty USFSA decrees that they will invest in ice dance, puts money into it and starts creating programs.

Maybe this is a cautionary tale against the argument that singles skating in America has fallen on hard times because the powers that be are not doing this and that vis a vis the federations of other countries.

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

I'm a casual fan who watches skating when it's on TV or when I stumble upon an amazing YT clip, but I don't follow the sport intensely outside of the Olympics. Yes, I guess I am one of those dreaded 4 year fans. However, I live in the Twin Cities and attended both the Ladies short and long and seeing it live has rekindled my love of skating. Perhaps they need to make more of an effort to get people like me to come to live competitions.

I was excited when I heard they were coming to St. Paul, but when tickets went on sale, all event passes were all that was on offer. The price was prohibitive and, honestly, the time commitment too intense. Perhaps they should sell some lower-priced individual tickets to locals at the same time the all event passes go on sale. I know it was disheartening for me to see the lower quality, but still expensive seats that were available once individual tickets were sold and I almost didn't bother to go. Luckily I gave up going with a friend and found a single seat in the 2nd row. It was amazing to see these athletes so close and now here I am signed up for an icenetwork subscription and haunting the skating message boards. Most of the sports that are really popular are ones that people have experienced in person. Figure skating could benefit by getting more people to experience it live. They should make more of an effort to get the locals to these big events and take advantage of the word of mouth buzz that comes from that. I know my excitement got at least a handful of people to tune into the broadcasts.

There's also a lot figure skating could learn from USA Gymnastics. Their social media outreach and use of live streaming is fantastic. They allow fans to see training sessions and competitions that were previously not available. A casual fan simply isn't going to fork over the $$$ for something like an icenetwork subscription to see these things, and even if they did, the site is poorly designed and not that functional. YouTube streaming would be a huge improvement in quality and accessibility.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, noStefaniano, thanks for joining us and great first post.

OK, I can't help myself. What a cool username. Should I know what it refers to, or is it a private joke?

 

[sc8]

Oh my goodness! It's TSUkahara! Named after the great Mitsuo Tsukahara. :eeking: Sorry! But I had to correct that.

Lol, I was just making a hypothetical, but I appreciate the correction because I would want people to spell my name correctly if I had a move named after me

 

[CCC]

While I agree IceNetwork could be improved, and casual fans are not likely to purchase a subscription, it is still a bargain with all of the event coverage. including Ice Desk and Skate Radio for US Competitions.

I tried to find a way to attend Greensboro Nats, but even able to drive (3 Hours), I could not afford the Tickets and Lodging ( tried...). The Tour packages for Boston worlds are like $2,500 and $4,500! and the $4,500 Package is Sold Out. Great for Boston!

I do think their use of media is helpful. Figure Skating needs to makes headlines again, not just during the Olympics.

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

Welcome, noStefaniano, thanks for joining us and great first post.

OK, I can't help myself. What a cool username. Should I know what it refers to, or is it a private joke?

Thank you so much. I couldn't think of something skating specific. It's kind of an inside joke -- a reference to a cheesy Nadia Comaneci biopic.

 

[mintx]

Did everyone see MerylDavis's response to this article? I don't know how to link a tweet but it was classy and direct!

 

[MK's Winter]

While I agree IceNetwork could be improved, and casual fans are not likely to purchase a subscription, it is still a bargain with all of the event coverage. including Ice Desk and Skate Radio for US Competitions. I tried to find a way to attend Greensboro Nats, but even able to drive (3 Hours), I could not afford the Tickets and Lodging ( tried...). The Tour packages for Boston worlds are like $2,500 and $4,500! and the $4,500 Package is Sold Out. Great for Boston! I do think their use of media is helpful. Figure Skating needs to makes headlines again, not just during the Olympics.

Icenetwork could be much improved. My feed went out enough to ruin junior men, senior men and ladies. I had a tech friend come over three days in a row, resetting my router, checking different browsers, ect, to be told it's their streaming that is the issue. I don't care if it's only 50 bucks (and remember they piggy back feeds during the GP, so they aren't even doing a large amount of work) I get crap for something I put out money for. I tweeted screen shots of my feed to them for them to give BS troubleshooting tip. I had already followed them from looking at the website. I advised them of that and nothing. I wasn't even rude about it. Woke up the next day to find I had been blocked. Blocked for showing pictures of a crap feed. I know who I won't be paying money to next year for skating.

 

[brightphoton]

Ice Network is 50 dollarydinos now? I remember roughly 2 Olympics ago, it was $19.99. I sometimes wonder how gullible they think skating fans are.

 

[theoreticalgirl]

Apologies if this has already been brought up, but one thing I think a lot about in regards to skating's decline in popularity is how gender plays out in the sport. We're living in an age where LGBTQ identity and rights are changing rapidly, but skating reduces gender to "Men's" and "Ladies" categories. I can't help but think that these outdated ideas of gender identities prevents audiences and athletes—on top of all the other issues mentioned in this thread—from further engaging with the sport.

Related, I wonder if the IOC's announcement regarding transgender athletes will cause the ISU, USFSA, et al to rethink matters?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...tes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery

 

[Jammers]

Icenetwork needs to upgrade its video player the video and audio is 2002 quality. You go to other streaming sites and the audio is so much better and clearer and is in stereo sound too.

 

[Sydney Rose]

Icenetwork could be much improved. My feed went out enough to ruin junior men, senior men and ladies.

Interesting. I live in Wisconsin and (so far) have rarely encountered problems with IN. Didn't watch junior men but did watch senior men and ladies with no issues.

What I value IN for is the Grand Prix coverage. Except for Skate America there's no commentary and I love that. I'll usually watch the GP event on IN first and then follow links posted here to the British Eurosport videos for their insightful & entertaining commentary.

So for me I think the $50 is worth it. I got rid of cable a couple years ago and am used to occasionally paying for must-watch TV like Fargo and a few other shows. Still much, much cheaper than what cable used to cost me.

 

[MK's Winter]

Interesting. I live in Wisconsin and (so far) have rarely encountered problems with IN. Didn't watch junior men but did watch senior men and ladies with no issues. What I value IN for is the Grand Prix coverage. Except for Skate America there's no commentary and I love that. I'll usually watch the GP event on IN first and then follow links posted here to the British Eurosport videos for their insightful & entertaining commentary. So for me I think the $50 is worth it. I got rid of cable a couple years ago and am used to occasionally paying for must-watch TV like Fargo and a few other shows. Still much, much cheaper than what cable used to cost me.

I generally do not have issues watching the GP but like I said they piggy back off of whatever stream is broadcasted. It's a shame when they do the streaming for Nationals it goes to hell. And I'm not the only one. Ashley Wagner had some choice words on Twitter about their stream and she was in St. Paul. My biggest gripe is how they treat their customers. I know many people blocked from their Twitter for daring to mention the feed. I sent them an email regarding the service and how they treat people (which I worded very respectfully) and have heard crickets.

 

[FlattFan]

Actually, I think more people might care abput Meryl than about watching ice dancing. She got quite a bit of public exposure for her gig on Dancing with the Stars, plus she is an Olympic gold medalist. This gives her a little more cachet than the average Joe.

I bet more people have heard of Meryl Davis than of Christine Brennan.

A lot of people have heard of Tori Spelling, too. But that don't mean they care for her. Average Joe also don't get sued by Amex for not paying their bills, either. Not sure why public exposure has anything to do with being sad.
Christine Brennan is doing her job, and she's pointing out a very pink elephant in the room. And sad Meryl is upset someone is playing captain obvious?

 

[Mathman]

^ I'll just say this, then. I think Meryl is quite happy -- you know, in general and overall.

 

[mrrice]

A lot of people have heard of Tori Spelling, too. But that don't mean they care for her. Average Joe also don't get sued by Amex for not paying their bills, either. Not sure why public exposure has anything to do with being sad.
Christine Brennan is doing her job, and she's pointing out a very pink elephant in the room. And sad Meryl is upset someone is playing captain obvious?

I swear I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but, I'm going to say this again. Someone, somewhere, is missing the boat when it comes to making figure skating popular. I would love to take a field trip to the Marketing Department at USFS just to see what they're up to. In my experience, Figure Skaters and their Parents are willing to do whatever it takes to help the sport. I gave up friends and a so called "Normal Life" to train when I was younger and I didn't regret it then and I don't regret it now.

Also, In my experience, Figure Skaters are smart, focused people who come from Families who are willing to work hard to achieve their goals. Look at Rudy Galindo. He wasn't rich, his parents weren't rich, and they got 2 of their children, Rudy and his Sister Laura, into figure skating. My Parents had money but that didn't make me or my skating popular with other kids at school.

Lastly, Times have changed and figure skating needs to change with them. When I was young, there was no social media. There was no American Idol or any other way to go from unknown to stardom over night. Strategies need to change and I think they should try a new approach. There are so many well educated USFS Alumni that I know if they put their heads together, they could come up with something great. I still have so much hope after seeing the great skating from our new medalists.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

US Elite Skaters should tour the rinks around the country during the summer....this is when school is out and the rinks are full of figure skaters. They could build relationships and skate with the fan base.

 

[Mathman]

Apologies if this has already been brought up, but one thing I think a lot about in regards to skating's decline in popularity is how gender plays out in the sport. We're living in an age where LGBTQ identity and rights are changing rapidly, but skating reduces gender to "Men's" and "Ladies" categories. I can't help but think that these outdated ideas of gender identities prevents audiences and athletes—on top of all the other issues mentioned in this thread—from further engaging with the sport.

I am not sure what you are proposing here. Gay men are men, Lesbian women are women, bi-sexual people are either men or women without ambiguity. Tennis has a men's division and a women's division. Basketball has a men's league and women's league. Golf …

Men's figure skating long had a stigma of being *snicker snicker* a sissy sport. People used to say, you're a figure skater, what? are you gay? Nowadays skaters simply answer yes, or no, or none of your business, then get back to work on their quad Sal. No one thinks anything of it when they see Johnny Weir as a television personality and major spokesperson for the sport. Well, OK, they might say "stupid hair." (Or am I thinking of U.S. Presidential candidate Donald Trump. )

Not that homophobia has been banished from society. But if one person says, I don't like this sissy sport, there is another who says, "Well, I do."

 

[Botan]

Apologies if this has already been brought up, but one thing I think a lot about in regards to skating's decline in popularity is how gender plays out in the sport. We're living in an age where LGBTQ identity and rights are changing rapidly, but skating reduces gender to "Men's" and "Ladies" categories. I can't help but think that these outdated ideas of gender identities prevents audiences and athletes—on top of all the other issues mentioned in this thread—from further engaging with the sport.

Related, I wonder if the IOC's announcement regarding transgender athletes will cause the ISU, USFSA, et al to rethink matters?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...tes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery

Even with said announcements the disciplines will still be divided into mens and ladies. The two categories aren't discriminating, it's just about the different abilities of male and female bodies. There isn't really another way because it would be unfair to have women compete against men.
Should there be a third category for transgender athletes ? it will be very difficult to even find too many Trans elite athletes because there aren't many transgender people in the first place.
Skating doesn't discriminate anybody's gender identity, it's only about biological sex ( sex and gender are not the same ). There have been many successful skaters who didn't conform to the preferred gender norms of their discipline.

And how would skating's popularity benefit from it ?