Chan hopes to add more quad jumps to his repertoire

[OS]

His Rachmaninoff SP Lori-esque?! I think it's going to be widely loved and he'll gain more fans from it.

Yep. Let's see.... a well known Modern Classical Europeans composer, likely a classical program of the Romanticism era/leaning, likely to follows classical choreography form in regular 4 by 4 beat within a 'comfortable' pace where skaters can churn out those COP requirements without need interpret when the music does it for them. Likely safe material that the judges are familiar with, have high regards for and know what they should expect. Yup, it sound Lori-esque

Did he say which Rachmaninoff piece he is going to do? It is as weird to say he is doing a great composer's music just because he is 'legit'. When every music connoisseur should able to tell you even the very best composers has produced some very shoddy works, and therefore naturally some great skaters could do too if they over trust on 'brands' with little regards to quality.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Did he say which Rachmaninoff piece he is going to do?

He changed his 2012 worlds' exhibition program - Elegie into SP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkUj6F1NjA

So what about this choice?



Here is an interview at Skate Canada High Performance Camp which has been posted in his fan thread. He talked about his programs for this season at the end of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOl3e1SFZhs

He's still mainly training in Colorado.

 

[OS]

He changed his 2012 worlds' exhibition program - Elegie into SP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkUj6F1NjA

So what about this choice?

Given I was one of the firsts to rave about it here. LOVE IT :agree:

Cute about too frugal to pay for cable

 

[Olympia]

One day, I'd love to see someone choose part of Rachmaninoff's cello sonata, or something from the first two movements of the Second Suite for Two Pianos for a program. Rachmaninoff is one of my top fave composers, but I think most people don't look deeply enough into his work.

First movement of the cello sonata:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3i0O7cxGa4

The first two movements of the Suite number 2. Hold onto your hats, and imagine the footwork possible! (By the way, there's nothing to stop a skater from skating part of the second movement first, and then sailing into music from the first movement....Wishful thinking, I know, but a fan can dream, can't she?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CrtCeg09KE

 

[Bluebonnet]

A new interview from Patrick Chan at High Performance Camp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsxInjmRgM8

At the end of the interview when Patrick answered PJ Kwang's question, he said this year he is a lot more comfortable with his programs and the patterns going into the quads are better which will help with the consistency of the quads. And he's a lot of less nervous about the jumps this year.

I think that means his programs this year will have less busy transitions in both his programs. We've already known his SP is slow and smooth and much depends on the performance. Well, his jumps might be more consistent and his performance might be cleaner in return this year.

 

[Layfan]

I'm definitely intrigued and excited about his choreographer change. I almost always love how David Wilson's programs look on the top skaters and Jeff Buttle? How cool. Don't know what to think about him using a modern dance teacher as his primary coach and his comments that he's at the stage where he can mostly direct his own coaching ... well, I'm not saying that isn't so, but we'll see. It could be true. He did very well when Lori had to double as his choreo and coach and he must had to take charge of a lot of his own skating during that period. But still.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Interview on Patrick's coach Kathy Johnson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN8eUBFKhlo&list=UUfzmDO8fK0rKFYIzfxm2KFA&index=3&feature=plcp

 

[Skater Boy]

I want to believe this is all good but I am concerned. New jumps and no techno expert. It sounds like simplicity in his transitions means lower transition marks - he is stripping the choreography ala Johnny Weir. I hope he does not permanently ruin his reputation for transitions and all.

His so called step forward could be one or two backwards and destroy his Olympic bid for glory. You need an outside perspective; coaching yourself essentially is not good. There is a reason why you have a coach. Ice is slippery. Dai, Hanyu, Joubert, Plushy, Fernandez, Abbott, Lycaek, th Czech boys might see this as the time to pounce.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I want to believe this is all good but I am concerned. New jumps and no techno expert. It sounds like simplicity in his transitions means lower transition marks - he is stripping the choreography ala Johnny Weir. I hope he does not permanently ruin his reputation for transitions and all.

His so called step forward could be one or two backwards and destroy his Olympic bid for glory. You need an outside perspective; coaching yourself essentially is not good. There is a reason why you have a coach. Ice is slippery. Dai, Hanyu, Joubert, Plushy, Fernandez, Abbott, Lycaek, th Czech boys might see this as the time to pounce.

I understand and actually share some of your concerns. Patrick has diluted his usual transitions this year for sure. His transition marks will be hurt for sure. But I'm just very curious to see if such sacrifice will be paid off by maintaining SS, and increasing P/E and CH marks. And in the meantime, if such sacrifice will raise the qualities of his jumps and raise +GOEs. If so, the sacrifice will be well worth of it.

I still have a big doubt on his choice of having a dance coach as his primary coach - even worse - now we know that his coach not only work with him, but also has to fly to different places sometimes to work with many different skaters including W/P at Detroit. Patrick is quite confident to work by himself and in his own pace for sure. But will that be enough?! He is so much like Michelle Kwan. But later Michelle Kwan had to have a coach, even though not a famous coach but he is a skating coach, by her side.

ETA:

The better thing is that Patrick is experimenting it this year instead of Michellle Kwan's experimenting it during 2002 Olympics. So Patrick can change and adjust before the Olympic season starts.

 

[FSGMT]

I understand and actually share some of your concerns. Patrick has diluted his usual transitions this year for sure. His transition marks will be hurt for sure. But I'm just very curious to see if such sacrifice will be paid off by maintaining SS, and increasing P/E and CH marks. And in the meantime, if such sacrifice will raise the qualities of his jumps and raise +GOEs. If so, the sacrifice will be well worth of it.

I still have a big doubt on his choice of having a dance coach as his primary coach - even worse - now we know that his coach not only work with him, but also has to fly to different places sometimes to work with many different skaters including W/P at Detroit. Patrick is quite confident to work by himself and in his own pace for sure. But will that be enough?! He is so much like Michelle Kwan. But later Michelle Kwan had to have a coach, even though not a famous coach but he is a skating coach, by her side.

I agree: what Patrick did is very risky, but Michelle was a lot more mature than him in her skating, she was really "herself" on the ice, in the past years Chan's programs were always refined in the minimum details by his coach/choreographer, and you can see that he didn't share with the crowd his own emotions, he was just executing what others told him to do (and the result was CHANtastic!!), Michelle didn't have to change her spins every year according to the new rules, and she kept always the same jumps she was presenting year after year, never changing her elements, Patrick is trying to learn new jumps and new programs from different choreographers... Absolutely a big challenge with a dance coach!

 

[janetfan]

I agree: what Patrick did is very risky, but Michelle was a lot more mature than him in her skating, she was really "herself" on the ice, in the past years Chan's programs were always refined in the minimum details by his coach/choreographer, and you can see that he didn't share with the crowd his own emotions, he was just executing what others told him to do (and the result was CHANtastic!!), Michelle didn't have to change her spins every year according to the new rules, and she kept always the same jumps she was presenting year after year, never changing her elements, Patrick is trying to learn new jumps and new programs from different choreographers... Absolutely a big challenge with a dance coach!

I think you raise a good point about the Kwan and Chan.

Michelle won Silver at Nagano at 17 and Chan has admitted he collapsed under the pressure of it all in Vancouver and wasn't close to the podium.

Michelle is a 5 time WC and two time Olympic medalist.

Chan has a long, long way to go before he ( actually it's his fans I refer to) can think of matching Michelle's competitive record.

Three years ago I predicted Michelle's five WC's would beat both Yuna and Mao's combined WC's.

So far I am still in the game. :yes:

Different eras produce different results.

 

[gmyers]

Chan was close to the podium! He could have medaled. He was so sloppy that if he cleaned up he also could have won. Even with being extremely sloppy only 6 points back from bronze in 5th place. Weir was 6 with only a mistake on a spin and not falling and sloppy and time violations. He had the winning kind of program and his 5th place finish could have easily been first.

 

[janetfan]

Chan was close to the podium! He could have medaled. He was so sloppy that if he cleaned up he also could have won. Even with being extremely sloppy only 6 points back from bronze in 5th place. Weir was 6 with only a mistake on a spin and not falling and sloppy and time violations. He had the winning kind of program and his 5th place finish could have easily been first.

Chan was not so close to the podium......

A more fair remark might be that he was overscored and should have been placed 6-7-8 in Vancouver.

Getting back to the topic it seems fair to suggest most top skaters hope to add new or better jumps to their programs this season.

 

[Binthere]

Interesting to see in the year before the Olympics how the bar seems to be on the rise in terms of variety of quads. That said, I would expect 2 cnosistent quad toes (one in combination) will still win the day. The risk and reward trade-off for trying the other entrances does not seem worth it from a points and psychological energy standpoint.

That said, if there is any skater who seems best positioned to say the risk/reward equation has a cushion, it would be Chan. Hope he really goes for it this season because would wonder if such risks - including while training - would make sense to anyone during the Olympic year.

 

[gmyers]

Chan was not so close to the podium......

A more fair remark might be that he was overscored and should have been placed 6-7-8 in Vancouver.

Getting back to the topic it seems fair to suggest most top skaters hope to add new or better jumps to their programs this season.

He was 4th in the free skate. If you want to say he was not legimately close to the podium you can say that but he was close. His FS was a mess too just like the SP but all the necessary elements for high scoring was there and he almost made it work for a podium spot.

Interesting to see in the year before the Olympics how the bar seems to be on the rise in terms of variety of quads. That said, I would expect 2 cnosistent quad toes (one in combination) will still win the day. The risk and reward trade-off for trying the other entrances does not seem worth it from a points and psychological energy standpoint.

That said, if there is any skater who seems best positioned to say the risk/reward equation has a cushion, it would be Chan. Hope he really goes for it this season because would wonder if such risks - including while training - would make sense to anyone during the Olympic year.

quads and triple axel-triple toe combos are both on the rise. Chan does have more room to take risk but Takahashi can't be too good like he was in the World Team Troph or Chan have as many problems like no 3A.