Gracie Gold addresses issues of weight | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Gracie Gold addresses issues of weight

TGee

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
What, no shiny white tights? :biggrin: This is nothing compared to the diving attire. :handw:



Currently the essential way to win figure skating competitions is to have high value jumps. A slim body enabling fast rotations in the air is highly desired and a concern for those without a naturally small body frame. Skaters near the top but without breakthroughs are looking at all possible improvements they can make including becoming thinner. It is not a problem as long as they are healthy and not get over consumed with this issue such that it turns into an obsession and overdoing into an unhealthy realm physically and mentally. I don't feel sorry for anybody not getting to eat junk food as if suck consumption is normal and healthy or the only culinary treat there is.

I think skaters and other athletes should maintain the optimal body conditions within the healthy perimeters while pursuing all improvements they can make in all areas. A slim body is just one of the competitive advantages within a holistic and balanced approach to strive for one's best. I do hope skaters, coaches, as well as the fans are not obsessed with weight and push for the impossible or unnatural and unhealthy.

Uhm, one of the things that seems to be at issue is that there are different techniques to achieve great jumps.

And most crucially, not all jump techniques work well with all body types...

It has come up in the discussions of the Russian ladies, that there have been some schools that have been teaching pre-puberty girls jump techniques that won't really achieve the same rotations, height, distance etc. with a mature female body.

I've read a number of critiques on GS of the technique associated with the Eteri group for example. Observers note that Eteri skaters use their arms, stretched out far and then pulled in to get the rotations, but don't have much height. Once the body matures and the centre of gravity changes this doesn't really work well. A jump technique, with greater use of the legs, and with greater height to give the time for the rotations is reportedly needed. So, there are a lot of comments on the Russian focused threads about the challenge of retraining, and concern that a number of gifted skaters have had to face this.

But reteaching and relearning basic jump technique after puberty flies in the face of the science that says that for skating, gymnastics and diving, the foundations of sport specific technique need to be correctly laid down prior to peak growth. It's very challenging, and risks injury to take a part technique and relearn it later once body memory is established.

So the underlying question in my mind is, should female skaters feel obliged to try to maintain a pre-pubescent form in order to maintain their skill level in jumping, when this body type issue could have been avoided? And it should be acknowledged that there are other lovely elements like the layback spin are most achievable with a mature female body with a lower centre of gravity.

Granted understanding of jump technique has increased by leaps and bounds in the past decade, but my ideal would be for coaches to teach jump technique that is sustainable with a mature athletic female body, right from the start.
 
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senatormls

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
We can all be couch psychologists. I could see bags under eyes ( crying or tired) and a certain uneasiness with her warm-ups. She looked like she didn't want to be there and wanted to get the LP over and done with. The Sarah Hughes music is not her and she said she is salvaging what she can of this program. In October already? Her demeanor at the K&C was the same at 4CC, very cold and 'I'm not speaking to anyone now,OK?' Oh and here I am being a couch psychologist! I think her weight is a cover-up of other problems. Take a breather Gracie! You have the goods, my goodness those jumps are huge when she is on! Get some rockin' programs going!
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Anybody focusing on weight as a solution to their problems is probably avoiding some real problems, intrinsic or extrinsic. Good physical health starts with good mental health. If you can't be happy without a gold medal or a desired weight, you wouldn't be happy with the medal or the new body. Gracie's explanation sounds good and healthy but of course I don't know her state of mind well enough as I don't follow her words and life very closely.

I hope she finds love and happiness for herself and then she may find the love and joy for skating. Only then she would find solutions to any training and competition issue such as body weight, the right coach and training program.
 

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Huh? Gold overweight?

She's no Medvedeva but I think that she's well on the thin side of the scale, personally.

Sounds like a body image issue.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Anybody focusing on weight as a solution to their problems is probably avoiding some real problems, intrinsic or extrinsic.

Except when you're trying to launch yourself in the air, spins three times, and land on a blade. She can look slim but still feel she does not have enough muscle tone to accomplish what she wants to with her programs.
 

Kittysk8s

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Hi Kitty,

Yes the clarification is posted on a few threads.....Not wanting to crosspost, but will make the point that I have previously.

The message looks as though it was either crafted by a pro, or had professional communications assistance.

One of the primary coach's roles is to know media relations and know when media relations support needs to be engaged. Gracie didn't seem to have that the night of the competition or in the interviews following.

If someone has stepped in with media relations support to help Gracie take a step back and communicate to her fans, in my view that is a good thing. Calming the situation down would be the first step in giving her space to make choices.

But it in no way means, in my view, that what was said did not represent her state of mind or feelings. Or, that it isn't reasonable to be concerned that she was so adrift and fragile and seemingly unsupported on Saturday evening.

I was not opining in any way, I was simply sharing the information :) :)
 

futurepupdoc

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Except when you're trying to launch yourself in the air, spins three times, and land on a blade. She can look slim but still feel she does not have enough muscle tone to accomplish what she wants to with her programs.

Yes, for a figure skater, Gracie's body type requires a certain weight to perform her best. I know because this is something I share with her. As skaters go I was always a bit taller than many of my competitors and my build was not as slight. Gracie is thin, she knows that she is thin. What she is striving for is something that has been worked out with her trainer and coach to be her optimal performance weight. This requires a great amount of discipline. If Gracie took the summer off, it is only natural that she would still be working to achieve this level of fitness. I also know from an interview that I watched with Frank that he is VERY disciplined about his weight. He also said he knew Michelle K would not be competing in the Olympics due to how her body looked. He knew from the first Olympic practice she wasn't in competitive shape. So, it would seem that weight is an important subject to Frank. I just hope that Gracie is OK, gets mentally strong and kicks butt the rest of the season so we can talk about her incredible skating and not such a personal issue.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Except when you're trying to launch yourself in the air, spins three times, and land on a blade. She can look slim but still feel she does not have enough muscle tone to accomplish what she wants to with her programs.

Being slim helps with rotations but it is not enough in itself. As well, she can more easily attain the optimal body without mental issues like stress, pressure, self doubt, etc. Different body types use different techniques and every skater has to find his/her own ideal state of body, mind and techniques to accomplish the highest level they can.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Being slim helps with rotations but it is not enough in itself. As well, she can more easily attain the optimal body without mental issues like stress, pressure, self doubt, etc. Different body types use different techniques and every skater has to find his/her own ideal state of body, mind and techniques to accomplish the highest level they can.

Of course, she is not as fit because she started her season preparations a bit late. I just don't think her acknowledging that in a blunt way is any indication that she has issues with her body image. Being at an optimal weight probably helps with more than rotations; Gracie also skates very fast so it probably helps to have a minimal amount of excess weight while skating across the ice.
 

jenaj

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Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, for a figure skater, Gracie's body type requires a certain weight to perform her best. I know because this is something I share with her. As skaters go I was always a bit taller than many of my competitors and my build was not as slight. Gracie is thin, she knows that she is thin. What she is striving for is something that has been worked out with her trainer and coach to be her optimal performance weight. This requires a great amount of discipline. If Gracie took the summer off, it is only natural that she would still be working to achieve this level of fitness. I also know from an interview that I watched with Frank that he is VERY disciplined about his weight. He also said he knew Michelle K would not be competing in the Olympics due to how her body looked. He knew from the first Olympic practice she wasn't in competitive shape. So, it would seem that weight is an important subject to Frank. I just hope that Gracie is OK, gets mentally strong and kicks butt the rest of the season so we can talk about her incredible skating and not such a personal issue.

I wonder if Frank isn't partially to blame for Gracie being upset about her weight. I question whether there is really an optimal weight or body type for skating. I can think of skaters who were not stick figures and who did very well. A lot of it, in my opinion, is pure aesthetics. The skaters have to go out in skimpy costumes and be subject to criticism about their appearance. No wonder many strive to be thin. Frank had no idea how "fit" for skating Michelle was in 2006--he was basing it purely on her appearance. I almost thought that what he meant was that Michelle would have lost weight if she was serious about competing because she would have wanted to look her best. That is a different thing from losing weight to skate her best.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
Country
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Except when you're trying to launch yourself in the air, spins three times, and land on a blade. She can look slim but still feel she does not have enough muscle tone to accomplish what she wants to with her programs.

YUP! There is such a thing as being thin, but not FIT. Gracie had a late start to the season, and wasn't toned at SA so her muscles couldn't quite do what she needed them to do.
 

Skatingcat

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Gracie made the comment in front of members of the media, so it was fair game. And given the fact that she does look beautiful as she is, it would be mind boggling that she might feel she is overweight.

Given that the media is looking for ways to explain her current skating and unhappy expressions, they thought they had the story- and so they reported it.

She may not be a her "fighting weight." She may have a sickness of some kind. Maybe she had the flu. I hope that whatever may be wrong with her is addressed.

Thus said, muscle weights more than fat.

I'm not the biggest fan of hers, but she does skate beautifully and is very very good. I would like to see the fire in her eyes again- I would like to see her happy when she skates.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Very interesting thread. I dont skate and I have always wondered how much of an edge ultra thin girls had in doing jumps...Like the JGP crop coming up.
I remember seeing Tara Lipinski take the ice and I thought, "No way are they going to let this two dimensional stick figured trick shooter compete against my MK!"
And If weight is critical above all else in jumping,then I could see some ladies thinking about dropping 2-4 lbs below their ideal fighting weight to get a personal edge in this brave new world of the points system.
I hope I dont see that kind of thing. Gracie and Ashley are very pretty ladies and they are thin enough. If the triple triple triple becomes needed to win, I wonder what the ladies will look like? Maybe a Tanya Harding can
power her way through a 3A but a Triple triple triple? I have no answers....Only questions....
WARNING: FIGURE SKATERS ON TV APPEAR MUCH LARGER THAN THEY ARE IN REAL LIFE.
http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/C...ia bomb small_zpsosmsl8lx.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Exactly. Most Japanese skaters are on the stocky side, and they jump well. I always think Japanese ladies have different jump techniques than Russians and Americans.


Being slim helps with rotations but it is not enough in itself. As well, she can more easily attain the optimal body without mental issues like stress, pressure, self doubt, etc. Different body types use different techniques and every skater has to find his/her own ideal state of body, mind and techniques to accomplish the highest level they can.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
I think I read or heard (maybe TSL with Brennan?) that Gracie had quickly lost 3-4 pounds right before coming to SA.
So maybe the issue is not how much she weighs but the fact that her weight is not consistent; her center of gravity keeps changing. At SA, her falls were due more to being off-axis on takeoff than to lacking rotation.
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
What a great point. It probably affects curvy skaters more, such as So Youn and Liza.
Liza looks thinner this season but her jumps were not great at Finlandia. Maybe she gets better as long as she does not lose or gain several pounds.

I think I read or heard (maybe TSL with Brennan?) that Gracie had quickly lost 3-4 pounds right before coming to SA.
So maybe the issue is not how much she weighs but the fact that her weight is not consistent; her center of gravity keeps changing. At SA, her falls were due more to being off-axis on takeoff than to lacking rotation.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Exactly. Most Japanese skaters are on the stocky side, and they jump well. I always think Japanese ladies have different jump techniques than Russians and Americans.

Japanese skaters are stocky? Some have had relatively short legs and long backs....
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
I think I read or heard (maybe TSL with Brennan?) that Gracie had quickly lost 3-4 pounds right before coming to SA.
So maybe the issue is not how much she weighs but the fact that her weight is not consistent; her center of gravity keeps changing. At SA, her falls were due more to being off-axis on takeoff than to lacking rotation.

Yes, this is an interesting point. Maybe one of our skaters will chime in here and comment about the effects of gaining or loosing a bit of weight on muscle memory in jumping. And how hard it is to adapt to the daily/weekly
changes many of us experience.
Chris dont jump.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I remember seeing Tara Lipinski take the ice and I thought, "No way are they going to let this two dimensional stick figured trick shooter compete against my MK!"

*cringes* Oh Chris, only that I have been used to your posting style makes me realise this is jesting, for so I hope it is.

WARNING: FIGURE SKATERS ON TV APPEAR MUCH LARGER THAN THEY ARE IN REAL LIFE.

This is very true. Never was I more shocked than when I realised that I stand a full head taller than Max himself.
 
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