I agree. I guess some people think that only because a program is packed and busy that it's good. Skaters with mediocre skating skills tend to pack their programs to get good scores. Skaters with very good skating skills can do less and the audience in the arena and the judges always see the difference, it's not always so recognizable on video. Skating is about gliding. When I think about it - I'm missing the spiral sequence for the ladies. Never thought that I would write that ... I'm fed up with those short spirals used as transitions between elements that almost all of the female skaters do nowadays. I didn't like poor spirals sequences, but I think I like promising looking too short spirals even less.
Grand Prix Analysis, Winners/Losers
- Thread starter Daniel1998
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Without the Spiral Sequence I'm not sure Sasha would have been as beloved. Well...I would have but I think ya get my drift.
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MaxSwagg.............Really :disapp: I have been dancing and performing for 35 years. I am now 50 years old and there's not a skater alive who could "Bamboozle" me into thinking they were better than they were. When you see a skater in person, you can hear the difference in their training just by listening to their blade work. I can tell which skater is going by with my eyes closed. It's actually a fun game and you should try it you ever go to a live event. For being as tiny as she was, Rachael Flatt had nice deep edges. She wasn't as fast as Alissa Czisny but you could hear her blades even with 5 other skaters on the ice with her. I hope that made sense.
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Without the Spiral sequence Sasha could have Russian Split Jumped, Falling leafed, or Scratch Spun her was into our hearts. She was quite good at everything. Except competing.
She is spectacular in shows....
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MaxSwagg;1498834]So you agree with her ridiculously high skating skills marks...
Well, remember that my Favorite skater was Maria Butyrskaya. Maria lost to Michelle Kwan every time they went against each other for 5 years before she finally beat her exactly 1 time. I'm the wrong person to ask when it comes to judges marks.
Well, remember that my Favorite skater was Maria Butyrskaya. Maria lost to Michelle Kwan every time they went against each other for 5 years before she finally beat her exactly 1 time. I'm the wrong person to ask when it comes to judges marks.
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That is because Kostner gets her TR via the quality of her movement before and after the exit. That was possible only because of her strong basic SS. Among the ladies of her generation, Kostner has the best and quietest blade work especially when seen live. She doesn't pack her program with TR just to fill in the in between, the way Medvedeva, Lenok or Wagner tries. Note that Kostner could get out a level 4 StSq in much less time than other ladies and the lean she gets on the edges are just sublime. The only thing she is totally crap at is that her competition nerves and head case can really throw you a big shade. In terms of the PE and IN, I think Kostner and Ashley have it different ways. One uses the statuesque form and upper body movement and balance, the other uses theatrics and expressions. They are just different but neither is superior to the other although subjectively, I much prefer Kostner's presentation.
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As much as people are negative about Ashley's "OTT" expressions, let's remember that skaters aren't skating for he camera close-ups, but for the people in the arena. The more OTT faces, the more you can communicate with the people in the cheap seats. It's part of why Ashley is able to bring the house down when she skates well.
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And bamboozle people into thinking she has superb skating skills...
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People enjoy skaters for more than their skating skills. You can stop acting like you're smarter than everyone else.
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Without the Spiral sequence Sasha could have Russian Split Jumped, Falling leafed, or Scratch Spun her was into our hearts. She was quite good at everything. Except competing.
God bless you for saying this! I miss Sasha's Russian split so much - no one comes near. And I miss those toes pointed perfectly even in mid-air.
I am not sure I agree with you on competitiveness - Sasha was not the best competitor but she was not the worst either - Gracie, Carolina and many others come to mind... Sasha would not have achieved as much as she'd done otherwise
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But I'm talking specifically about the validity of skating skills marks, not about who enjoys this or that skater. So what's your point? Or are you just blabbing? And I'm not giving that impression; sounds like a personal (i.e. your) problem to me. Don't get jumped up and act all crazy...
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lolPCS distribution are problematic across the board. Ashley gets inflated SS, Gracie gets inflated INT, Elena/Liza get inflated CH - in the end, for the most part, it works out. It really just looks like you want to pick on Ashley rather than acknowledging the problems of the judging as a whole. I doubt that the judges - who know more about skating than you or me - are getting "bamboozled." Instead they are deliberately using PCS to give skaters an overall ranking, much like under 6.0.
ETA: The direct implication of your posts is that Ashley's excellent interpretation tricks people into thinking she has great SS, and because you are not getting tricked, you're smarter than all of us fools.
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There are four types of transitions listed as ISU components - footwork, skating movement, body movement and non listed element transitions.
Kostner is simply marvelous at doing body movement transitions and I have the impression that we tend forget about them in those discussions - it's so very difficult to get the balance on the blade right when doing those movements. I'm glad that the judges always rewarded that. And it's really about the combination of all those types of transitions that are listed, my point is that Kostner's scores are not only based on the quality of the transitions she does - she's capable of doing a variety of difficult transitions and she always shows that in her programs as well. But yes, when you actually count the number of transitions she does there are skaters who do more. But they are rarely more difficult and/or of better quality.
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A may have been a bit harsh on her Competitive short comings. I guess when I think of 2004 Worlds when she had the lead going into the free program and then made several small mistakes and lost the title to Shizuka. She did the same thing in Turino. I don't remember where it was but I remember seeing her fall on her COE Camel. It was strange mistakes like that, that kept from winning Worlds and Olympics when she was in the lead before the free. She was probably the best SP skater of her era though.
This IMO, is Sasha's best performance. Her falling leaf with a back attitude at 2:05 is extremely difficult. She lands all of her jumps and finishes with gorgeous and very fast forward scratch spin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo3hgBV59bc
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It was her strength and her problem at the same time - she was so often in 1st after the short but could not cope with the pressure of retaining the position. She always did better when she was not leading after the short - e.g. 2005 Worlds where she had a very decent long - no falls but ahh Irina had that epic skate on the home ice ...
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I'm sure many people don't even know what "skating skills" means. They watch and enjoy the performances, that's what it's all about
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I'm sure many people don't even know what "skating skills" means. They watch and enjoy the performances, that's what it's all about
This is completely true. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain to people that just because skater A didn't fall doesn't mean they should've won. People still ask me why they talk about edges in skating. They think the blades are like a knife and have only a single edge. I hope that made sense.
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:agree2:
