- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
She fell on it in the QR and didn't attempt it in the LP.soogar said:
Grand Prix Assignments are up!!!!
- Thread starter berthes ghost
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
That is true but she has attempted it in competition and succesfully landed clean ones as well as some cheated. The last fully clean one was at Japanese Nationals. At Marshalls it was cheated by 1/2 a turn. She has done far better on this element than Sasha ever has. Miki's quad is not just "talk." Sasha's at this point is.soogar said:
Clean jumps
Methinks all the skaters have to concentrate on getting clean jumps.... and the "caller" or whatever that position is called in the CoPs has to be better at not giving full credit for a cheated or incorrect jump (i.e. wrong take-off edge).
Linny
Methinks all the skaters have to concentrate on getting clean jumps.... and the "caller" or whatever that position is called in the CoPs has to be better at not giving full credit for a cheated or incorrect jump (i.e. wrong take-off edge).
Linny
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I think Miki is a really lackluster skater, very meh....very average. She's just got jumps.
I don't think Sasha is going to be able to put a 3/3 back in with any consistency. She's usually not clean in the LPs and that's without even planning a 3/3. Her best bet is to plan everything and hope she "hits" at the right time. I'm sure this will be enough to win her some big titles, as we've seen.
As for Michelle, I'm glad to see her going back to the GP series, she needs the competitions to get her in the right mindset. I think Arturian has a plan for the CoP, he's mentioned it, and I'm hoping to see more detailed programs and better spins. Michelle's best shot at a 3/3 is probably 3sal/3toe and I think she can do it if she WANTS it.
I don't think Sasha is going to be able to put a 3/3 back in with any consistency. She's usually not clean in the LPs and that's without even planning a 3/3. Her best bet is to plan everything and hope she "hits" at the right time. I'm sure this will be enough to win her some big titles, as we've seen.
As for Michelle, I'm glad to see her going back to the GP series, she needs the competitions to get her in the right mindset. I think Arturian has a plan for the CoP, he's mentioned it, and I'm hoping to see more detailed programs and better spins. Michelle's best shot at a 3/3 is probably 3sal/3toe and I think she can do it if she WANTS it.
Michelle has her work cut out for her this year. All of her competition has two years of COP under their belt. I expect to see this be a learning year for her but watch out next year.
TT was still learning about how to deal with COP with Sasha last year. That is why she kept changing her programs almost weekly. Also the judges have learned a lot more about CoP in the last two years. Now it is Michelle's turn to learn. Being the quick study she is, she should be a pro by next year. Just in time for the big one if she decides to give it another try.
Ladybug
TT was still learning about how to deal with COP with Sasha last year. That is why she kept changing her programs almost weekly. Also the judges have learned a lot more about CoP in the last two years. Now it is Michelle's turn to learn. Being the quick study she is, she should be a pro by next year. Just in time for the big one if she decides to give it another try.
Ladybug
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
The caller decides the type of jump based on the take-off (approach and direction) and number of revolutions. (The approach for the flutz starts on an outside edge, and then rolls to an inside edge.) The judges decide how severe the wrong take-off edge is and deduct accordingly from the GOE on the element.Linny said:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
soogar said:
Soogar, you have a good post andgetting lots of responses
I'm interested to see if the landed quad will the a slam dunk for gold?
I remember Tara, who basically won the competition on 3Lx3L despite the fact that it was cheated and she did edgeless footwork, a flat spiral on the diagonal, and no apparent transittions. In her favor, though, there was that combo and a big smile and high spirit in skating.
So if Miki stuns the world with a quad, will it be a slam dunk for gold? I'm sure the rest of her program will be a breeze.
Joe
I was all for Tara winning gold in 1998 and she had great edges and lots of speed plus she had neat presentation to go with the jumps. One thing that made Tara stand out was that she HAD the 3loop-3loop. She had landed that combination enough times in competition for it to be a weapon for her.
When people talk about Miki's quad, it seems to me like it's considered a sure thing. To me , a sure thing was Midori's 3 axel as she had landed it consistently for a number of competitions for many years. I just don't consider Miki's quad a weapon that she can really count on. I'm sure if Sasha tries a quad at EVERY competion she enters, she might land one eventually, however that wouldn't mean that she *has* a quad.
I also think that with the code of points, Miki's quad will not win the entire competition unless she hits a majority of her elements. On the other hand, a complete skater with consistent 3-3's can really clean up on points. Miki has it in her to be a complete skater and Shizuka is already there with TT in her corner. Sasha will also be up there w/out a 3-3 (though I imagine she'll work on that) b/c of her strong spins and overall presentation skills.
When people talk about Miki's quad, it seems to me like it's considered a sure thing. To me , a sure thing was Midori's 3 axel as she had landed it consistently for a number of competitions for many years. I just don't consider Miki's quad a weapon that she can really count on. I'm sure if Sasha tries a quad at EVERY competion she enters, she might land one eventually, however that wouldn't mean that she *has* a quad.
I also think that with the code of points, Miki's quad will not win the entire competition unless she hits a majority of her elements. On the other hand, a complete skater with consistent 3-3's can really clean up on points. Miki has it in her to be a complete skater and Shizuka is already there with TT in her corner. Sasha will also be up there w/out a 3-3 (though I imagine she'll work on that) b/c of her strong spins and overall presentation skills.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2003
Sasha and MIichelle's challanges next
Hi all!!
Great thread, I would like to add my musings about my passion: the top ladies!
Sasha and Michelle are the top two skaters in the wolrd right now in my opinion.
I am glad Sasha, Michelle and Miki meet each other early next season at skate America(it wouldn't suprise me if they meet at the fall cheese fest either). But I am especially happy that Michelle and Sasah are meeting at a grad-prix event. Not to mention I am happy Michelle Kwan is doing the grad prix.
I think we are putting too much...excuess me WAY too much importance on the quad. REMEMBER....COP is NOT 6.0!! Jumps are now just part of the overall program. And jumps must be clean or else the skater will be hammered for underroations and two-footings. Something not really done under 6.0 for quads and diffiicult 3/3 combos. Now regardless of how spectacular the jumps are they better be clean or you won't get given full credit. What I like about COP is that the cookie-cutter is gone. A 5 or six 6 triple jump program with exquite footwork, spirals, and choerography get place below a 7 triple w/2 triple-triple combos and weak chorogrphy program. Everything is beeing judges now. Jumps mean less.(still important but not the be all-end all under 6.0)
I am soo impressed with Ando. The fact that at her 1st worlds she can finish 4th straight outta juinors is amazing to me. She is just 16 and has alot of maturaty for her age. BUT she still needs to develop artisticly before she can be a consistant threat to either Cohen or Kwan. She doesn't have the buttery smooth edges of Kwan or the exotic positions Cohen has. She doesn't "Command" Tthe ice either skater does. That will affect her program component score as well. We'll see how much has has came and how much further she needs to go at the start of the season.
Cohen:
With that said I think Sasha has a huge advanage her vast array of tricks will ensure that she will rack huge points for spins, footwork, and jumps. Also becasue her overall technique is so brilliant she will have plenty of GOE ponts headed her way. The proglem with Cohen is that the really needs to be consistant with the jumps. Honestly in my opinion, I think sasha doesn't need to attempt 7 triples, just 6 or maybe even 5!!
I think that COP will revolutionize the way we as fans see the overall quality of skating. Now jumps will be de-emphasized. The quality of the spins, sprials and footwork have greater importance. With the overt quality Sasha has in those areas, I truly don't think she should attempt many jumps, being that jump consistancy is her week spot. . Sasha doesn't need a quad an only needs to push herself to the artistic boundries.
Kwan:
The Kween needs to re-invent herself again, and I have confidance she, with Rafeel's help will do so. She has been at or near the top of the elite international skating scene for a decade so trust me she knows how to adapt!!. Futher more I really feel that this season is not about "Winning another Skater America, Skate Canada, GPF titles", they would be nice but I don't think she cares...been there done that. I think she really cares about 2006 olympics. Everything else is pratice. Michelle needs to play up *her* strenghts while minimizing her weakness. She needs more choreogrphy in her programs. More sweet in-betweens!!! I am not convinced she *NEEDS* a triple-triple under COP but competing against Sasha(who I believe is unlikely to deliver 3/3s on a consistant basis) is all the more reason she should get that 3sal/3toe or dust off her 3toe/3toe. Michelle is at a point in her career that the pressure is OFF her. She is NOT the worlds champion and doesn't have that pressure to skate like one every time she takes the ice. I think that alone will bode well for her. Michelle skates her best when she thinks she is not the favoite!! All Michelle has to do really is 3 things:
1. Continue to be consistant
2. Get out of this cookie-cutter program rut (I liked Tosca and Aranjuez) and get fresh, original programs( ala maraculous Mandarin) That means keeping the explosive footwork(remember play to *YOUR* strenghs)
3. maybe a 3/3 depending on how offen the competition is landing theirs.
Hi all!!
Great thread, I would like to add my musings about my passion: the top ladies!
Sasha and Michelle are the top two skaters in the wolrd right now in my opinion.
I am glad Sasha, Michelle and Miki meet each other early next season at skate America(it wouldn't suprise me if they meet at the fall cheese fest either). But I am especially happy that Michelle and Sasah are meeting at a grad-prix event. Not to mention I am happy Michelle Kwan is doing the grad prix.
I think we are putting too much...excuess me WAY too much importance on the quad. REMEMBER....COP is NOT 6.0!! Jumps are now just part of the overall program. And jumps must be clean or else the skater will be hammered for underroations and two-footings. Something not really done under 6.0 for quads and diffiicult 3/3 combos. Now regardless of how spectacular the jumps are they better be clean or you won't get given full credit. What I like about COP is that the cookie-cutter is gone. A 5 or six 6 triple jump program with exquite footwork, spirals, and choerography get place below a 7 triple w/2 triple-triple combos and weak chorogrphy program. Everything is beeing judges now. Jumps mean less.(still important but not the be all-end all under 6.0)
I am soo impressed with Ando. The fact that at her 1st worlds she can finish 4th straight outta juinors is amazing to me. She is just 16 and has alot of maturaty for her age. BUT she still needs to develop artisticly before she can be a consistant threat to either Cohen or Kwan. She doesn't have the buttery smooth edges of Kwan or the exotic positions Cohen has. She doesn't "Command" Tthe ice either skater does. That will affect her program component score as well. We'll see how much has has came and how much further she needs to go at the start of the season.
Cohen:
With that said I think Sasha has a huge advanage her vast array of tricks will ensure that she will rack huge points for spins, footwork, and jumps. Also becasue her overall technique is so brilliant she will have plenty of GOE ponts headed her way. The proglem with Cohen is that the really needs to be consistant with the jumps. Honestly in my opinion, I think sasha doesn't need to attempt 7 triples, just 6 or maybe even 5!!
I think that COP will revolutionize the way we as fans see the overall quality of skating. Now jumps will be de-emphasized. The quality of the spins, sprials and footwork have greater importance. With the overt quality Sasha has in those areas, I truly don't think she should attempt many jumps, being that jump consistancy is her week spot. . Sasha doesn't need a quad an only needs to push herself to the artistic boundries.Kwan:
The Kween needs to re-invent herself again, and I have confidance she, with Rafeel's help will do so. She has been at or near the top of the elite international skating scene for a decade so trust me she knows how to adapt!!. Futher more I really feel that this season is not about "Winning another Skater America, Skate Canada, GPF titles", they would be nice but I don't think she cares...been there done that. I think she really cares about 2006 olympics. Everything else is pratice. Michelle needs to play up *her* strenghts while minimizing her weakness. She needs more choreogrphy in her programs. More sweet in-betweens!!! I am not convinced she *NEEDS* a triple-triple under COP but competing against Sasha(who I believe is unlikely to deliver 3/3s on a consistant basis) is all the more reason she should get that 3sal/3toe or dust off her 3toe/3toe. Michelle is at a point in her career that the pressure is OFF her. She is NOT the worlds champion and doesn't have that pressure to skate like one every time she takes the ice. I think that alone will bode well for her. Michelle skates her best when she thinks she is not the favoite!! All Michelle has to do really is 3 things:
1. Continue to be consistant
2. Get out of this cookie-cutter program rut (I liked Tosca and Aranjuez) and get fresh, original programs( ala maraculous Mandarin) That means keeping the explosive footwork(remember play to *YOUR* strenghs)
3. maybe a 3/3 depending on how offen the competition is landing theirs.
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I'm not that impressed with Miki Ando. She has 3/3s, but sometimes they are not completely rotated, and that will hurt her under CoP. There are things about her skating that will hurt her in the Skating Components marks. She isn't very musical, for one. "Firebird" was a well-choreographed program, but she wasn't keeping up with the music, so a lot of the choreography seemed out of sync. She tends to slow down and become sloppy in the second half of her FS. And finally, her skating lacks attack. If she has a big element and misses it or backs off, the rest of the program loses focus. Even if she completes a big element successfully, it seems to take the steam out of her. She landed a fully rotated quad at Japanese Nationals, but after that, she slowed up and the rest of her skating lacked punch.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
It will be interesting to see how jump combos ending in 3L or 2L will be judged under CoP, since, by definition, they are 1/2 turn underrotated on take-off. It might be the demise of them, unless the double-hit (as overrotated in GOE and devaluing the jump) is eliminated.
I think the most beautiful thing about Ando's 3Lu/3Lo is the rhythm she gets on the loop: slight delay (on the pre-rotation) and a poppy turn/turn/turn. (Okay, 2.5Lo.)
I think the most beautiful thing about Ando's 3Lu/3Lo is the rhythm she gets on the loop: slight delay (on the pre-rotation) and a poppy turn/turn/turn. (Okay, 2.5Lo.)
berthes ghost said:
You should have seen this someone recently when he managed to get some rest at last and overcome the nagging illnesses! Happy as a lark and full of radiant energy! So why not three events?
Libra - from Russia, with love for that someone !
