How long for a lady to break SP with 80?

[Mista Ekko]

Yuna was well gifted with her WR. It managed to outscore an SP with a 3A-2T by more than 5 points. Four years later it was kinda funny how in Sochi Miss Kim couldn't even get a whiff of her WR that despite the hype from her fans that she was going to break it again.

That's what was kinda funny to you about judging in Sochi ?

( K i gotta stop now )

Besides, Should we remind you she had one less element between the two SPs ?

 

[begin]

It'll depend on the direction of the sport. If the talent pool grows then we're bound to get someone extraordinary.

Yuna was well gifted with her WR. It managed to outscore an SP with a 3A-2T by more than 5 points. Four years later it was kinda funny how in Sochi Miss Kim couldn't even get a whiff of her WR that despite the hype from her fans that she was going to break it again.

*beats dead horse
It was generous but not 'well gifted'. Her base value alone was more than Mao's and quality was miles ahead at the time. Also: 78.50 - 73.78 = not more than 5 points (but you're not the first one who got that math wrong)

 

[Mista Ekko]

Asada did that with one less element.. Remarkable...

Exactly.

And she even didn't have the highest PCS in the event

 

[taltaltel]

Yuna was well gifted with her WR. It managed to outscore an SP with a 3A-2T by more than 5 points. Four years later it was kinda funny how in Sochi Miss Kim couldn't even get a whiff of her WR that despite the hype from her fans that she was going to break it again.

Even today, a 3A-2T is worth less than a 3Lz-3T, and 3A was only revalued after the Vancouver Olympics so I'm not sure where your qualm with that bit of scoring is coming from. I would have thought that Yuna haters would be less bitter after her retirement, but guess I was wrong.

 

[satine]

I think we can start fantasizing about this once there is a new triple-axel-er on the scene

 

[satine]

For those who are curious, here are some statistics from this thread that FSGMT started, where they & I went through many, many scoresheets to determine some 'Top 10s' in skating. For SP note that the older scores were obtained when GOE was worth more & also there was an additional element. Also, the scores were compiled during the off-season, so any new protocols of the 2014-2015 season are not included here.


(these two thanks to FSGMT)

Highest international SP scores-
1) Mao Asada 78.66 2014 World Figure Skating Championships
2) Yu-Na Kim 78.50 2010 Olympics
3) Carolina Kostner 77.24 2014 World Figure Skating Championships
4) Yu-Na Kim 76.28 2009 Skate America
5) Yu-Na Kim 76.12 2009 Worlds
6) Yu-Na Kim 76.08 2009 TEB
7) Mao Asada 75.94 2009 World Team Trophy
8) Yu-Na Kim 74.92 2014 Olympics
9) Adelina Sotnikova 74.64 2014 Olympics
10) Julia Lipnitskaya 74.54 2014 world Figure Skating Championships

Highest PCS in SP-
1) Carolina Kostner 37.46 2014 World Figure Skating Championships
2) Carolina Kostner 36.63 2014 Olympics
3) Yu-Na Kim 35.89 2014 Olympics
4) Mao Asada 35.85 2014 World Figure Skating Championships
5) Adelina Sotnikova 35.55 2014 Olympics
6) Yu-Na Kim 35.00 2013 Golden Spin of Zagreb
7) Carolina Kostner 34.92 2014 Olympics-Team Event
8) Mao Asada 34.91 2013-2014 GPF
9) Mao Asada 34.37 2013 NHK Trophy
10) Mao Asada 34.33 2013 Skate America

(I compiled these two, sorry they are in reverse order...)

Highest BV-
10. Elena Radionova 32.44 at 2013 SA, 2013 GPF, & 2013 Nebelhorn.
9. Julia Lipnitskaia 32.53 at 2013 COR, 2013 Finlandia, 2013 SC, 2014 Euro Champs, & 2014 Worlds.
8. Ksenia Makarova 32.90 at 2010 Olympics & 2010 Worlds.
7. Elene Gedevanishvili 33.10 at 2010 Olympics.
6. Mao Asada 34.11 at 2013 4CC.
5. Mao Asada 34.14 at 2013 NHK.
4. Rachael Flatt 34.30 at 2009 SA & 2010 Olympics.
3. Mao Asada 34.40 at 2010 Olympics AND Yuna Kim 34.40 at 2009 SA.
2. Mao Asada 34.69 at 2013 SA & 2014 Worlds.

Highest GOE-
10. Adelina Sotnikova 7.82 2014 euros
9. Mirai Nagasu 8.00 2010 worlds
8. Mao Asada 8.12 2014 worlds
7. Julia Lipnitskaia 8.30 2014 worlds
6. Yuna Kim 8.50 2009 worlds
5. Carolina Kostner 8.65 2014 worlds
4. Adelina Sotnikova 8.66 2014 olympics
3. Yuna Kim 8.90 2009 teb
2. Yuna Kim 9.60 2009 sa
1. Yuna Kim 9.80 2010 olympics

 

[sunnystars]

So far the only person that can probably execute the 3A is Liza.

 

[begin]

For those who are curious, here are some statistics from this thread that FSGMT started, where they & I went through many, many scoresheets to determine some 'Top 10s' in skating. For SP note that the older scores were obtained when GOE was worth more & also there was an additional element. Also, the scores were compiled during the off-season, so any new protocols of the 2014-2015 season are not included here.

Really impressive compilation. But did you adjust for the current scale of values? Off the top of my head, Yuna's highest BV is actually 34.90 in 2009/2010.

 

[MalAssada]

And who do you guys think can land a 3A?

I can't think about any Russian girls currently competing (wonder 4 or baby wonder 4). Liza used to land it, but if it is taking a while for her to be secure with a 3Lz+3T, I can't imagine a 3A so soon.

When we go to Novice, Marin Honda was training it (and the quad) before an injury... And there's a blank in my mind after her.

 

[sunnystars]

And who do you guys think can land a 3A?

I can't think about any Russian girls currently competing (wonder 4 or baby wonder 4). Liza used to land it, but if it is taking a while for her to be secure with a 3Lz+3T, I can't imagine a 3A so soon.

When we go to Novice, Marin Honda was training it (and the quad) before an injury... And there's a blank in my mind after her.

the Canadians are
Alaine and Gabrielle were pretty vocal on practicing the 3A and planning to add it in their reportoire

but I still find Liza unleashing it out before them.....

 

[minze]

Well, I think Mao deserved to break the 80 mark at world's 2014. I thought her components marks should have been higher.

 

[Krunchii]

the Canadians are
Alaine and Gabrielle were pretty vocal on practicing the 3A and planning to add it in their reportoire

but I still find Liza unleashing it out before them.....

I agree, Liza will come out with it first if anything, her jumps are fantastic but I'd also like to see her improve her postures and spins

 

[Meoima]

I agree, Liza will come out with it first if anything, her jumps are fantastic but I'd also like to see her improve her postures and spins

I have no doubt Mishin even prepared a 4T for Liza.

 

[satine]

Really impressive compilation. But did you adjust for the current scale of values? Off the top of my head, Yuna's highest BV is actually 34.90 in 2009/2010.

Nope, we did not I'd like to go through & do so. Also go through the competitions that have already happened this season. We also did the lists for the Men's events, link located in the original thread.

 

[chairmanmao]

It'll depend on the direction of the sport. If the talent pool grows then we're bound to get someone extraordinary.



*beats dead horse
It was generous but not 'well gifted'. Her base value alone was more than Mao's and quality was miles ahead at the time. Also: 78.50 - 73.78 = not more than 5 points (but you're not the first one who got that math wrong)

I think I could be forgiven with getting the scores differences wrong. Which is a rather trivial difference in IMHO but to say Kim was miles ahead of Asada is just plain presumptuous. Asada landed a beautiful 3A-2T which was unfortunately not rewarded. Do you know how many female skaters have landed a 3A-2T as good as the one Asada landed in her SP? Maybe Ito though I don't recall her landing this combo in competition. What I do know is that there are tons of run of the mill junior skaters who are landing 3LZ-3T. In Sochi her 3Lz-3T look rather pedestrian along with the other generic 3-3's in that competition.

 

[minze]

I think I could be forgiven with getting the scores differences wrong. Which is a rather trivial difference in IMHO but to say Kim was miles ahead of Asada is just plain presumptuous. Asada landed a beautiful 3A-2T which was unfortunately not rewarded. Do you know how many female skaters have landed a 3A-2T as good as the one Asada landed in her SP? Maybe Ito though I don't recall her landing this combo in competition. What I do know is that there are tons of run of the mill junior skaters who are landing 3LZ-3T. In Sochi her 3Lz-3T look rather pedestrian along with the other generic 3-3's in that competition.

The way I will put it is that the judges had giving up on Mao and underscored her SP. But I have moved on because she has the world record on the SP now.

 

[begin]

Nope, we did not I'd like to go through & do so. Also go through the competitions that have already happened this season. We also did the lists for the Men's events, link located in the original thread.

Oh that would be a serious task lol. Without the adjustments Yuna's TEB and OWG BV are technically the highest to date.

I think I could be forgiven with getting the scores differences wrong. Which is a rather trivial difference in IMHO but to say Kim was miles ahead of Asada is just plain presumptuous. Asada landed a beautiful 3A-2T which was unfortunately not rewarded. Do you know how many female skaters have landed a 3A-2T as good as the one Asada landed in her SP? Maybe Ito though I don't recall her landing this combo in competition. What I do know is that there are tons of run of the mill junior skaters who are landing 3LZ-3T. In Sochi her 3Lz-3T look rather pedestrian along with the other generic 3-3's in that competition.

So we're going down the rabbit hole.

I'm not "presumptuous"--I'm not presuming at all, given that I saw the actual performances? What do you mean she wasn't rewarded? Her GOE wasn't high enough to satisfy you? I know Mao has always had a beautiful air position but her jumps were never spectacular in height, length or flow (major features in quality). And quality is measured by GOEs regardless of the base value--ie. it doesn't matter how "generic" the 3Lz+3T and/or how rare a triple-axel combo is. That difficulty reflected in it's base value. Not to undermine the significance of Mao's 3A acheivements but it did not mean she was technically superior to Yuna in competition. Kim's 3+3 already has a greater base value than Asada's 3+2. Yuna's 3Lz+3T in Vancouver was better than most of them men. Mao's 3A+3T--however pretty she did it--was considerably weaker than the men landing the 3A combos. When compared across the single's discipline (as is necessary!), their respective GOEs were fair.

A little part of me suspects this entire conversation is going to go over your head, as it seems you think one jump is equal to another regardless of quality.

 

[minze]

I am not going to get into a Mao vs Yuna, but Mao was absolutely underscored. She had a bad start to her season and she did not recover in the eyes of the judges.

 

[Meoima]

This is getting annoying in my eyes. Now I have more reasons to not miss both Mao and Yuna at all. Thank you guys.

 

[Ophelia]

I'm not "presumptuous"--I'm not presuming at all, given that I saw the actual performances? What do you mean she wasn't rewarded? Her GOE wasn't high enough to satisfy you? I know Mao has always had a beautiful air position but her jumps were never spectacular in height, length or flow (major features in quality). And quality is measured by GOEs regardless of the base value--ie. it doesn't matter how "generic" the 3Lz+3T and/or how rare a triple-axel combo is. That difficulty reflected in it's base value. Not to undermine the significance of Mao's 3A acheivements but it did not mean she was technically superior to Yuna in competition. Kim's 3+3 already has a greater base value than Asada's 3+2. Yuna's 3Lz+3T in Vancouver was better than most of them men. Mao's 3A+3T--however pretty she did it--was considerably weaker than the men landing the 3A combos. When compared across the single's discipline (as is necessary!), their respective GOEs were fair.

A little part of me suspects this entire conversation is going to go over your head, as it seems you think one jump is equal to another regardless of quality.

Many Asada fans seem to think that being able to execute the 3A (and not consistently) makes Asada the best jumper ever, and should merit her +3 GOEs across the board.

Back to topic, can a female skater have PCS inflated so much that they'd break 80 pts even without the 3A?