How will history view Sasha? | Golden Skate

How will history view Sasha?

Ogre Mage

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
I was reading this article over at the USFSA web site and noticed this quote:

Cohen is one of the most elegant and lyrical skaters to ever lace up a pair of skates, but her inability to win “the big one” has frustrated fans, coaches, but most importantly, herself. Her future plans remain in doubt, and she ruminated on how people might remember her.

“Hopefully … a good impact,” she said, tearing up on the press conference podium. “Of course, I know I won't be remembered for winning a lot of championships but hopefully more than that, for the skating. I have learned it's about the journey, not about the destination, to enjoy each day. I'm still learning to be able to give it my all to get lost in the moment. I still haven't found that automatic robot to be able to pump up for performances. That's something I'm still searching for.”

Which got me thinking, if Sasha retires now, how WILL her skating be viewed 4 or 8 years from now? Her career has been one of the most interesting, perplexing and controversial in skating.

She made a breathtaking debut on the scene in 2000, already fully formed artistically but lacking in other areas. The American media raved about her and predicted she would be the next big ladies skating star. For all her grace on the ice, however, her programs usually had mistakes. Strangely, there was no pattern to them. Sometimes it would be one move, sometimes another at the beginning, middle or end of the program.

She made several coaching changes and over the years improved in nearly every area of her skating. Her spins and spirals were good even in her early days, before long they were signature moves. Her basic skating, once a weakness, became respectable and her flexibility, line and extension remained unmatched. Yet for all her improvements, the inconsistency remained. Skating insiders didn't get it. The debate over the reason for her problems was an ubiquitous topic among skating fans for many, many years. The "killer instinct" that others possessed (Michelle, Sarah, Kimmie) just did not seem to be a part of her genetic makeup.

Over the course of her career, she won a U.S. Nats title, an Olympic Silver, 2 World Silvers, a World Bronze and a GPF gold. That wasn't as good as she had hoped or equal to the American media hype. Yet it was an extremely impressive record by any standard. In some ways, Sasha was unlucky. Sometimes it takes a great performance to win a championship, sometimes only a good one. She never seemed to be able to pull together a truly great performance in major event and on the several occasions that she was good, someone else was great.

Ultimately, I think Sasha will be remembered as a superb artistic skater who came very close to realizing her full potential. The gifts she possessed, no one can teach. You could see it in her spectacular spiral and layback positions, the gorgeous split in her Charlotte and Russian Split Jump, the great extension in her camel spin and the natural dance ability in the footwork of her Dark Eyes and Malaguena SPs. Those are the things I'll remember about her skating.
 
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Lanie

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
She will be known to most casual skating fans and probably the media as a choker.

To fans and others who know figure skating, probably a beautiful skater who just didn't have the competitiveness to keep it together.
 

MsLutzy

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Most definitely, she'll be remembered as one of the most beautiful, artistic and flexible skaters ever. Skaters' spins/spirals or other artistic elements like split jumps and ina bauers may be constantly compared against Sasha's. Unfortunately, I feel that's probably it. Other than that, she'll be remembered for her inconsistancy.

If she can take time off and get her jumps back to a consistant level/overcome her nerves, she will be remembered as one of the most all-round, fully packaged skaters.
 

azsk8fan

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
She will hardly be remembered at all - no more, no less than the rest of those who never snagged the big titles.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
She may not have snagged the big one, but her resume is pretty darn good!

~She's won a few GP events, won a GPF, and a National Title

~She's gotten silver at 5 Nats, 2 Worlds, 1 Olympics

~She's gotten bronze at 1 Nats. and 1 Worlds

I think many elite skaters would LOVE that resume. I know Sasha has more potential and ability than her resume suggests, but I think she should be proud of her career as is, and she will be later on (if she retires now, I mean). I think she'll be remembered as one of the greatest artists of all time, with wonderful spins and spirals. She doesn't belong in the category with skaters who didn't really make it to the top as expected for various reasons (like, Naomi as a singles skater due to injury, or Jenny/AP for not really advancing beyond their Jr. Worlds win, or Nicole/Anglea for lack of mental toughness, well, Nicole was more a work ethic issue).

I think Sasha's biggest misforutune was coming of age during a time when Michelle and Irina were around. They have longetivity on their side, winning multiple championships and being known for their consistency, nerves of steel. IMO, they are exceptions, not the rule. I think Shiz can be added here, even though her career resume is not as expansive, since she has been around a long time and can be consistent, mentally tough at times. Without them, or if they had retired after their 1st Olympics, Sasha would maybe have 6 Nats. titles, 2 World title, and an OGM.

So, what I'm getting at is Sasha did compete with the best and stayed among the best. She just never did better than her competitors when it counted most. I don't think she'll go down as "one of the best ever". I think Michelle, Irina, Kat, Janet, and other OGM will be compared in this category, but I do think Sasha will be remembered as a wonderful artist who just never got the big one.

That is, if she does retire this season.
 

azsk8fan

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
With Michelle out of the picture Sasha may have been able to garner an extra Nationals' title or so but as far as Worlds - well there was no Michelle and no Irina and that certainly didn't ensure Sasha the World title so I find it a stretch to think she could have won perhaps 2 - she couldn't seize the moment this year just as she couldn't seize the moment many other yrs. past. Just to go off topic for a minute I would like to add I am getting sick to death of Peggy Fleming belaboring the fact that Sasha is doing what 'she' likes best when she does exhibition as opposed to competition....... I'm sure most skaters prefer the relaxed atmosphere of exhibition skating over having to worry about the judging but the fact is plain and simple that one must compete and win titles or as in Sasha's case at least place a close second before they start receiving tons of invites for the major ice shows. It's too bad Sasha doesn't like to compete but that's the nature of the beast. I'm glad I didn't have to pay to see the exhibition at Worlds, at least not Sasha's performance - I don't need to see a ton of jumps but at least one would be nice...... it just shows her extreme lack of confidence if she won't even do one dbl. axel. end of rant.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
azsk8fan said:
With Michelle out of the picture Sasha may have been able to garner an extra Nationals' title or so but as far as Worlds - well there was no Michelle and no Irina and that certainly didn't ensure Sasha the World title so I find it a stretch to think she could have won perhaps 2 - she couldn't seize the moment this year just as she couldn't seize the moment many other yrs. past.

I agree, that is why I wrote "maybe" could have won more titles. I thought Sasha's LP in Moscow was her best LP at a major competition. She looked more relaxed even despite minor mistakes on a few jump landings. I believe she knew that was Irina's title, so she went out and skated w/o pressure. IMO, Nats. 2006 was very telling. Sasha had that title in the bag and still skated tentatively with two bobbles. The pressure gets to her and she loses focus. Some of Michelle's best performances were when her back was to the wall-1996, 2000, 2001 Worlds, 2004 Nats. Just like Irina's best showing was 2005 Worlds when she had the most pressure/expectations to win. Sasha hasn't lived up to it. I still believe everyone has that magical skate in them. Hopefully Sasha will have one when it counts.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
MKFSfan said:
I think Sasha's biggest misforutune was coming of age during a time when Michelle and Irina were around. They have longetivity on their side, winning multiple championships and being known for their consistency, nerves of steel. IMO, they are exceptions, not the rule. I think Shiz can be added here, even though her career resume is not as expansive, since she has been around a long time and can be consistent, mentally tough at times. Without them, or if they had retired after their 1st Olympics, Sasha would maybe have 6 Nats. titles, 2 World title, and an OGM.


I've just emphasised the maybe in your post because i don't think you can emphasise it enough...just going through teh competitions and taking out her rivals and saying she might have won them but for those people is a bit of a stretch. Her Rivals weren't at Worlds this year and she only got the bronze. I don't think it matters who those people were, i think if you take out Michelle, Irina and Shizuka the results would probably still be the same because Sasha's problem has never been about talent its the mental aspect to competing that she struggles with, so regardless of who her competitiros are i think she'd still have ahd the same career.

Ant
 

ikfan

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
stretch

Well one thing for sure is that every ladies spiral in every competition will be compared to Sasha's. If nothing else, she will be remembered for the most beautiful stretches in the history of the sport.
 

flying camel

Medalist
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
I feel so bad to know she was holding back the tears. Poor Sasha!. I think the fact that she had to follow in behind so many great US. champions who could perform a clean program has hurt her. She says she is not putting pressure on herself, but it is always there.

I will remember her as making every moment of skating beautiful She is truly a joy to watch, even with the mistakes. She has been a wonderful rolemodel for skaters. You see a lot of elements in her program used by other skaters. That is a compliment to her.

I hope she continues but it will be difficult with all the jumping beans. But if she leaves the sport, I have to quote Katarinia Witt " I will miss the nice skating a little bit"
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
ikfan said:
Well one thing for sure is that every ladies spiral in every competition will be compared to Sasha's. If nothing else, she will be remembered for the most beautiful stretches in the history of the sport.

For me, personally, the spiral benchmark is always Bobek. I always mentally compare a lady's spiral with Bobek's and still mostly find that Bobek's in the winner.

Ant
 

anniemg

Rinkside
Joined
May 17, 2004
I agree with those who said that Sasha's missfortune is that she had to compete against one of the greatest and most consistent of all times. She gave good performances at Nationals, but Michelle was there. When she managed to skate( well, not great, but still) good she couldnt win the world title because someone else had skated better. Irina has so many european titles(7!!!!), yet she wasnt always perfect.

She will definately leave her mark on the sport. He I-spin, her spirals, her charlotte, and, for me, the fire she managed to bring on the ice with some of her Sps(2004 sp worlds for example).

Still....i hope she doesnt retire :frown:
 

Frau Muller

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Title of this topic: How will history view Sasha?

Short answer: As a spoiled, arrogant brat who had a good leg extension thanks to Pilates training. :cool:

Next question?

****
Sasha to Peter Carruthers: "I'm here to change society."
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
You know, Janet Lynn never won anything big either, but 30+ years later she is regarded by many as the greatest free skater of all time. Yes, Lynn won 5 Nationals compared with Sasha's 1, but then again Lynn didn't have a Michelle Kwan to have to go up against on that level, either. And as a matter of fact, one of the actual highlights of Lynn's career was falling on a sit spin -- and then smiling.

By saying this, I am not really comparing Sasha to Janet; I know that that would be a potential landmine. However, I've never actually seen Janet Lynn skate, and yet her reputation precedes her. Bottom line is, I am hoping that a decade or two down the road Sasha will be remembered for the beautiful stuff she did on the ice and not for being able to come through at all the big moments.
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Frau Muller said:
Short answer: As a spoiled, arrogant brat who had a good leg extension thanks to Pilates training. :cool:



****
Sasha to Peter Carruthers: "I'm here to change society."

As someone who a couple of years ago would have pretty much said the same thing, I am going to actually defend Sasha on that "spoiled, arrogant brat" level now. Up until this season, I actually did have a bit of a problem with her -- I liked her skating a lot, but there was something about her personality that rather grated on my nerves. OK, I found her to be a bit of a spoiled snotty diva, OK?? Then I read the Sports Illustrated article that came out right before Torino, and was impressed by her new maturity, and I think she handled herself in Torino beautifully.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Sasha Cohen for me is the best entertainer on ice since Sonia Henie. She's cute; she's musical, she's got all the skating skills. She excels when skating to lively upbeat music.

Unfortunately, I do not see her as a great competitive skater although she does have the required talent for international championships.

Joe
 

Enero

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
azsk8fan said:
She will hardly be remembered at all - no more, no less than the rest of those who never snagged the big titles.

Couldn't have said it better myself. She's a beautiful skater, but I think at the end of the day those who have won World and Olympic titles will be the ones most remembered.
 
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