I Have Never Missed Michelle More Than I Do Now

[Alsace]

Well, thanks to everyone who posted comments and quotations on the Michelle piece aired last night!

 

[Gatzbee]

I thought she was very straightforward about saying that no one could say how she would have done ... that she could have fallen all over the place.

and b/c of that i didn't feel any bit of bitterness. i mean she just said it bluntly. she watched the games, and saw what happened. no sense that she felt it was too hard for her to watch. to me that interview was very refreshing. i don't think she seems depressed. i think she accepted her fate at turino and has kept a level head. i miss her skating, and just singing her out there. who knows what could happen. michelle has been the only skater thus far who has just really touched me on and off the ice

 

[kyla2]

Rgirl

Thanks for your response. It was kind, very well reasoned and well stated. I miss Michelle more than I can express, while I also love Sasha, Fumie, Kimmie, Joannie, Shiz, and of course Irina. I happen to admire them all very much but most especially Michelle and Sasha. I miss Michelle because of her elegance and maturity; something Kimmie doesn't have just yet. I appreciated Shizuka's win at the Olympics because she brought the whole package. But I still felt the Olympics was flat without her. Perhaps I am going through "Michelle withdrawal." I have never lived my life vicariously through anyone, including Michelle, but for me she elevated the sport so much artistically that I just feel let down right now. Sasha is a brilliant skater, and I love her as well. Perhaps if she could have skated a relatively clean performance, I wouldn't feel the absence of Michelle so much. I don't know. Also, I can't help but worry about what Sasha must be feeling right now. I hope she can hang in there and not let this impact her life and her life choices.
Thanks for your comments NyMKF also.

 

[yelyoh]

Well I for one miss MK a lot. A lot!!!!!!!!! Regarding the MK piece, I think she was being honest and open and I appreciated that. I don't always get that feeling from her. Sour grapes? Not from my perspective but I suppose people read into these things what they want to. Bitter? Maybe about her body giving out. I am happy for Kimmie as she seems like a really sweet young woman and skated the best of any female yesterday. But her skating does nothing for me. It's hard for me not to tune out. Sorry Rgirl but I barely saw any of the choreography you liked in her program. Even if Sasha is off and she was really off in the LP she is still interesting. I am not a Sashalover but I was hoping she could pull this off. I am happy for Fumie but disappointed for Sasha. My podium wish was Sasha, Fumie and Roannie but alas it was not to be. I hope Sasha sticks it out and Fumie, MIchelle and Irina do also. I'm just not ready to say goodbye to them.

 

[JulietJames]

Well I for one miss MK a lot. A lot!!!!!!!!! Regarding the MK piece, I think she was being honest and open and I appreciated that. I don't always get that feeling from her. Sour grapes? Not from my perspective but I suppose people read into these things what they want to. Bitter? Maybe about her body giving out. I am happy for Kimmie as she seems like a really sweet young woman and skated the best of any female yesterday. But her skating does nothing for me. It's hard for me not to tune out. Sorry Rgirl but I barely saw any of the choreography you liked in her program. Even if Sasha is off and she was really off in the LP she is still interesting. I am not a Sashalover but I was hoping she could pull this off. I am happy for Fumie but disappointed for Sasha. My podium wish was Sasha, Fumie and Roannie but alas it was not to be. I hope Sasha sticks it out and Fumie, MIchelle and Irina do also. I'm just not ready to say goodbye to them.

Fumie certainly plans to skate again next year. With Worlds in Japan, she wants that chance to win at home... and with how this year turned out, who knows?

I admire Irina, but don't care at all for her skating style. I don't know if she'll be back, but I think she's too often over marked... and that annoys me.

BTW, someone mentioned Miki Ando regressing - did anyone else notice that she began to have consistency issues when she started to skate with more maturity? It's as though she hasn't been able to balance jumping and artistry yet. I think she has so much potential, and hopefully next season will be better for her.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome to the forum, JulietJames. Thanks for joining us.

Mathman

 

[rob43]

I don't think Kwan sounds bitter- just honest. She tried her best to make it to Oly ice- and her body and circumsatnces prevented her from doing so. I remember thinking 'whoa!!!' when I read on Weir's blog that the athele's thought their seats in the Opening Cermenonies would be heated-but they weren't. I was wondering if that played into Kwan's decision to march after reading it. Her comment about sidelining an athlete for 6 weeks leading to an angry athlete was very telling. She has been benched three times by her doctors this season and I imagine being off-ice completely is very confusing for her.

I think a lot of us are having MK withdrawels and their were no performances that were clean and artistic. I think I will probably like Kimmie more in the future if she develops (regardless of placement.)

Also to whoever felt Yamaguchi blossomed after she quit competing. She went pro at 21 or 22 but she was a very competitive professional til about 30. She always did 2-4 comps and always tried at least 4 triples in LPs- which was the same # she landed in her Oly FS. She also did a few pro-ams which are not the skate pretty horse and pony shows some pros relegate themselves to.

I'm positive we'll see kwan at 07 Nats- on ice or in the booth is the big question.

 

[jenaj]

I think Michelle would like to continue competitive skating. But I worry that the pressure from all the naysayers will make it too difficult for her to do it. The whole notion that she should step aside to let the "new generation" step up reminds me of how the Chicago Bulls wanted to get rid of Michael Jordan so they could "rebuild." Well, they are still rebuilding, what is it now, 8 years later? Let the new generation beat Michelle and Sasha, too, if they want to prove they are worth watching.

 

[Enero]

Out with the old timers and in with the new jumping beans.

ITA! Though Michelle and others will most certainly be missed, I'm personally ready for them to move on. They've set standards, made history, peaked, declined, peaked again and won a slew of national and international medals. We've seen it all from them, they've made their mark on the sport. And frankly them continuing to stick around causes the sport to become boring and stale IMO.

Now it's time for the new generation to emerge and make their mark on skating, which may actually help to breathe new life into this sport that seems to be struggling a bit.

Though I was disappointed with Sasha's World loss, I was very excited to see Kimmie win! And I'm even more anxious for next season when Kimmie, Mao, Katy, Alizza, Yukano and other newbies will be competing head to head with their 3/3's and triple axels.

 

[R.D.]

Though Michelle and others will most certainly be missed, I'm personally ready for them to move on. They've set standards, made history, peaked, declined, peaked again and won a slew of national and international medals. We've seen it all from them, they've made their mark on the sport. And frankly them continuing to stick around causes the sport to become boring and stale IMO.

More or less, I agree. I think we have seen many new faces in the past four years but if MK and IS do leave, there's a real changing of the guard. We already got a preview of that at this year's worlds with Kimmie and at junior worlds with Mao and that Yu-Na kid.

Personally, I think I'll pass.

 

[new_europe2006]

It's not time for any of the old timers to retire unless they want to and if the up and comers want to win, they'll just have to step it up.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think the new era has begun. I think MK knows this and will concentrate on doing the business of the new ice rink. It may become a tourist attraction.

The Japanese, the Korean and the American gals will usher in a new phase.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I would wait until such an "invasion" actually happens before I declare that it has arrived. JMO

 

[Rgirl]

It's not time for any of the old timers to retire unless they want to and if the up and comers want to win, they'll just have to step it up.

The up and comers have stepped it up. Kimmie's the new World Champ ; KM and Emily Hughes finished fifth and sixth at the OWG; Mao Asada already won the '05 Sr. GPF; and the only reason we can't directly compare what skaters such as Yu Na Kim and others are doing is because of their age.

Even though, IMO, Sasha, Shizuka, Irina, and Fumie, to name just a few "Class A" veterans, increased the difficulty of their new choreography or went back to old programs and made some COP changes to them mainly because Irina looked basically unbeatable until Euros. I think the "vets" stepped their training and difficulty up mainly because of her, but I think they also felt the pressure of the up and comers. Mao Asada was a BIG story until Speedy said, "Sorry. Rules is rules. Mao ain't going to the '06 OWG or Worlds because she is too young." But anybody who intends to compete next year had to be watching.

I think the top young ones have already been doing as difficult or more difficult elements compared to the seniors on the Jr. circuit. The only thing they're a bit low on, depending on the skater, are components, and at least a couple will improve in that area very, very quickly. My questions are more about the veterans. Aside from those who have already announced their retirement from eligible skating, who will show up to try to continue their eligible careers? Whose bodies will hold up under the new and continued demands of COP skating?

IMO, the up and comers are, metaphorically, already on senior ice, warming up, ready to go. The only thing that hasn't started is their music.

JMO,
Rgirl

 

[Panther2000]

I don't think Kwan sounds bitter- just honest. She tried her best to make it to Oly ice- and her body and circumsatnces prevented her from doing so. I remember thinking 'whoa!!!' when I read on Weir's blog that the athele's thought their seats in the Opening Cermenonies would be heated-but they weren't. I was wondering if that played into Kwan's decision to march after reading it. Her comment about sidelining an athlete for 6 weeks leading to an angry athlete was very telling. She has been benched three times by her doctors this season and I imagine being off-ice completely is very confusing for her.

I think a lot of us are having MK withdrawels and their were no performances that were clean and artistic. I think I will probably like Kimmie more in the future if she develops (regardless of placement.)

Also to whoever felt Yamaguchi blossomed after she quit competing. She went pro at 21 or 22 but she was a very competitive professional til about 30. She always did 2-4 comps and always tried at least 4 triples in LPs- which was the same # she landed in her Oly FS. She also did a few pro-ams which are not the skate pretty horse and pony shows some pros relegate themselves to.

I'm positive we'll see kwan at 07 Nats- on ice or in the booth is the big question.

I agree Michelle did not sound bitter. Just disappointed that she was unable to sakte & that she reinjured herself.

Not only was michelle missed at worlds But, for the past few skating seasons.
She does bring grace & class to each skating event she enters. & not to mention that the anty us always upped artisticly when she & sasha skate. This new group has a lot of maturing to do when it comes to their artistic side of skaitng. & I think that, that has been put on the back burner for the past 5 or 6 years. Jumps what the focus had been sence SLC. & Eeven now with the COP. yeah, they are doing a little more inbetweens. But, they all look like they are going through the motions, just to get to that next jump.

Hoepfully, if Michelle's body is willing I think that she will be back next season. If she does. I think that it may be her last season. But, she is the kind of person who would want to go out on her terms( Injury free). & not because others want to see new faces & want her to retire.

 

[antmanb]

Spoiled!

I just think we've been spoiled to have older skaters staying in skating. OINce your body reaches the limit of what it can do, the only way to improve your skating is to branch out choreographically and artistically. Younger skaters have come and gone while Michelle has still reigned. If she retires now i expect we'll have the young jumping beans like Meissner and Asada having to pull more out of the bag than just jumps...remember kwan was a young gangly jumping bean once too.

I hope Meissner takes this summer to develop her artistry and comes back la Kwan did in the 95/96 program with not only the full 7 triple jump program but something that really works artistically too.

Ant

 

[Panther2000]

I agree, I remeber that little jumping bean. However even back than . Michelle had wonderful edges & great program for her age. These girls now though are michelles age 7 even old & Still some look like junior just waiting to get to the next jump.


But, I think that we also can blame some of this on the new System. the programs are blending into one. They all pretty much look the same, with the exception here & there.

 

[attyfan]

...

IMO, the "sour grapes"--for those who felt there were sour grapes--were in the first paragraph when Michelle talked about how because of the NJS "a lot of skaters changed their programs" and that "these skaters are surprised that a five-triple program could win the [Olympic] gold medal."
...
At least to me, Michelle came across as out of touch with the evolution of NJS/COP programs, as well as out of touch with the changes in the COP and NJS rules over time. A five-triple program obviously can win the OGM under the COP, at least as it now stands, because of the way jumps, spins, spirals, and footwork are scored, not to mention the way people skate. Plus it's not like any of the top skaters planned a five-triple LP for Torino. It's just the way things worked out. For Worlds, however, Meissner won with a seven-triple LP that included at least one 3/3 (it's late and I'm too tired to check my tape to see if she did two--lazy Rgirl).
...

Rgirl

I disagree. For four years, it has been consistently drummed that no 3/3s means no OGM; that MK couldn't win because she didn't have a 3/3; and that one reason why Irina would win is that she could do them. After Olys, there were articles saying how MK easily could have won it -- one article said that she could have done better "with a pulled groin muscle and a buffalo on her back). (and MK should be praised for her refusal to "buy into" that line of speculation) I don't think that Michelle -- and the other skaters that she was referring to -- are out of touch with the NJS, when they are saying what other commentators have been saying for years -- including the years of the CoP.

 

[Rgirl]

Corrections, Apologies, Clarifications, Thanks

I figured better to put this all in one post.

--Mathman, p3, post 37

...a number of others, starting on p1 of this thread, did turn it into an opportunity to bash Sasha.

I think if you go back and read every post you will find that the number is 1.

Thank you for the correction, Mathman. I'll fix that part of my post to read, "But seriously, despite your intention to make this mature discussion about missing Michelle's elegant skating...one poster, starting on p1 of this thread, did turn it into an opportunity to clearly bash Sasha a number of times." I felt another few posters said some things that were not "bashing" but, IMO, skating kind of close to it. However, the way I initially worded the sentence was wrong, not intentionally, and for that I owe Kyla and the other posters my apologies. The error I made and you found is very important and one that I shouldn't have made in any thread, but especially in one in which the subject matter can easily get emotional based on word usage. Even just the difference between "post" and "thread" was important, so shame on me.

--"Sour Grapes": Since whether or not Michelle exhibited "sour grapes" in her interview became a repeated subject that seemed as if some people felt I had come up with it, I thought I should clarify where "sour grapes" came from. On p3, Post 24, Lisadotdash says, in small part, re Michelle's interview,

"...I thought [Michelle] acted a little sour grapes..."

I'm only using that little phrase because, IMO, it would give the wrong impression of Lisadotdash's primarily positive comments about Michelle if I used more context but not the whole post. I would urge those who are interested to reread what Lisadd wrote. JMO.
On p3, Post 29, I quote Lisadotdash's post, reply to her, then post the transcript of what MK said because someone hadn't been able to see/hear it and asked for any info on it. After some background info, such as "They only played Michelle's replies," I brought up "sour grapes" in response to Lisadd's post. I say in part, re "sour grapes,"

IMO, the "sour grapes"--for those who felt there were sour grapes--were in the first paragraph when Michelle talked about how because of the NJS "a lot of skaters changed their programs" and that "these skaters are surprised that a five-triple program could win the [Olympic] gold medal." Even after having listened and watched the interview many times, these comments surprised me....[details]....At least to me, Michelle came across as out of touch with the evolution of NJS/COP programs, as well as out of touch with the changes in the COP and NJS rules over time....

Hope that helps.

--Millie, p3, post 34: Thanks.

--MKFSfan, P3, Post 36: Thank you for providing me with the correct title, "Winter" of the program I had incorrectly called "White Horses," and also for reminding me that Michelle choreographed it in response to the death of the brother of COI founder Tom Collins, instead of what I said, which, again, was incorrect. I should leave the Kwan details to the Kwan Pros. Althought the style of music isn't my cup of tea, I love it with that program--perfection! I thought even "way back then" Michelle showed a great natural flare for choreography. I think part of why I love it is the way the movement flows so effectively from her natural movement style, at least IMO. Also, the feeling of love through the skating and choreography is very strong without getting sentimental.

--Flowjo35:

I agree about what this thread has turned into. You can be assured that every thread about Michelle will turn into something like this. The title of the thread states "I have never missed Michelle more that I do now", if you are not a fan why come into the thread? I heard not sour grapes from Michelle either, just regarding her body letting her down....

You can also be assured that every thread about Sasha, Irina, and various others will turn into something like this, too. Of course that is no reason or excuse for that pattern to continue. OTOH, sometimes one or more posters who are strong fans of the skater in a thread such as this can just as easily, though unintentionally, be the initiator of turning a thread into "something like this," ie, negative and argumentative.
You asked, given the title of the thread, "If you are not a fan why come into the thread?" My question here is, given the title of the thread, "I wonder how things would have progressed if someone hadn't posted so much excessive bashing of another skater early on?"

--Kyla2, p3, post 43: Thanks, Kyla. I appreciate your post a great deal. What a little sincere intention on both sides to communicate and empathize can't do, eh?

--Yehloh, p3, post 44:

Sorry Rgirl but I barely saw any of the choreography you liked in [Kimmie's] program.

I think we may have a misunderstanding based on "electronic reading," especially in small fonts. Here's everything I said about Kimmie's choreography, "I thought [Kimmie's] LP choreography was much improved--they took out almost all the super-angular arm positions so Kimmie could use her lovely long limbs to their best effect." However, the sentence just prior to that, although a little weird out of context, is, "I thought Kimmie was really great!" Perhaps it looked as if I'd written that Kimmie's choreography was "really great!" I know my eyes do stuff like that to me on computers all the time.
I wouldn't normally go off topic to bring up anything more about KM's choreography, but since we're on the subject, I actually don't like Kimmie's LP. For me, the choreography is one of those Gertrude Stein "There's no there there" things. However, in the fall, I hated KM's LP choreography. Her arms seemed as if they were always in some kind of "walk like an Egyptian" pose, which I thought ruined the effect one of her best features, her long arms and the way she uses them. My point was that I liked that Team Kimmie had changed the arm positions so they were mostly curved instead of angular. What I thought was "really great!" was Kimmie herself. Of course there were things I didn't like and I go into detail about it all in the post.

--Rob43, p4, post 47:

Also to whoever felt Yamaguchi blossomed after she quit competing. She went pro at 21 or 22 but she was a very competitive professional til about 30. She always did 2-4 comps and always tried at least 4 triples in LPs- which was the same # she landed in her Oly FS. She also did a few pro-ams which are not the skate pretty horse and pony shows some pros relegate themselves to.

That was me, Rob. Since it's off topic, I'll PM you my reply. It's nothing bad, lol. I just couldn't say it in a couple of sentences.

Rgirl

 

[Mathman]

Hi, Rgirl. About Kimmie's choreography, did you see her exhibition program? I would be interested to know if you thought, as I did -- Wow, if she could just skate like that in her competitive programs she really would be at the top of the world!

(And speaking of reading Kimmie's face, like when she was in the stands evaluating the other ladies' performances at the Olympics, LOL -- did you see the look of determination on her face as she approached her double Axel, after she had popped the previous jump in the exhibition skate. )

MM