If Michelle competes next year....

[MKFSfan]

I would think if it came down to it, Michelle would do the GP series and not have to go through regionals/sectionals. I really, really hope she has that decision to make!!!

Hopefully in the next month or so we find out how Michelle's injury is. Until there is word that her condition is chronic and hinders her too much to remain competitive, I'll hold onto hope. I would think skating in COI would have little bearing outside keeping her skating fit, she can adapt her programs to what she can do. I hope she'll be there! I have tickets and I would love to see her.

So a question: if you are "unseeded", the whole skaters HAVE to do GPS unless they have a Dr's note or else no Worlds doesn't come into play?

 

[attyfan]

... Since Kwan doesn't qualify by placing in top 5 in the 2006 US Nationals, medalling at Torino, or medalling in Calgary, she'd have to compete in an international competition that coincides with her sectionals to get a bye to Spokane. I assume her regional would be Southwest Pacific in Culver City, CA (Oct 4-8) and her sectional would be Pacific Coast Sectional in Bozeman, MT (Nov, TBD). Depending on when in November, that might coincide with TEB or CoR, or even the one week break in between.

It seems like she'd have to commit to regionals by the deadline for Oct 4 to compete in Spokane, and unless the USFS schedules an international cheezefest to coincide with sectionals, she'll have to compete in Bozeman.

I read somewhere that the USFSA could still invite Michelle to do SA, but could she even get invotations to TEB or CoR, since she is not seeded and her world ranking is so low?

 

[Sylvia]

I read somewhere that the USFSA could still invite Michelle to do SA, but could she even get invotations to TEB or CoR, since she is not seeded and her world ranking is so low?

The skater selection criteria for the 2006-07 Grand Prix has been revised by the ISU and will be published in the GP Announcement -- see:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-173872-191090-103705-0-file,00.pdf
ISU World rankings and skaters' Personal Best scores will be taken into account.

 

[hockeyfan228]

There are discretionary places for each of the host countries in addition to the three spots for skaters from the host country. Looking at the invitations from the last two years, the host nations favor giving invitations to very low-ranked skaters from other host nations. Kwan, despite her ranking, is a headliner in North America and a draw in China. I'm not sure what her draw potential is in France or Russia.

I think the issue for a host nation inviting Kwan is the possibility that she might withdraw. Skate Canada has dealt with this recently, and they may or may not issue an invite, if Sectionals are the first week of November, when Skate Canada is scheduled.

 

[mzheng]

So a question: if you are "unseeded", the whole skaters HAVE to do GPS unless they have a Dr's note or else no Worlds doesn't come into play?

Sounds like what $peedy's letter said. But MK will not be seeded next season. She can be invited to SA, and only do one GP. Like Plushen did this year only COR.

Back to topic. The more I think about it, I think it is a moot point now.....It has been said that they(Kamp Kwan) all knew this would be her last season with or without the injury (I mean the injury made official, because she completely out of competetion).....So, imo, unless she desperately wants that 10th title, she most unlikely come back next season. Her parents were against her competing for a quite a while, now if what that translated Russian article said was true (Estella's therapy idea. And it is not far fetched from what I heard about.), I don't see how she can continue with the unmended injury with a lot of pain.

 

[jenaj]

Sounds like what $peedy's letter said. But MK will not be seeded next season. She can be invited to SA, and only do one GP. Like Plushen did this year only COR.

Back to topic. The more I think about it, I think it is a moot point now.....It has been said that they(Kamp Kwan) all knew this would be her last season with or without the injury (I mean the injury made official, because she completely out of competetion).....So, imo, unless she desperately wants that 10th title, she most unlikely come back next season. Her parents were against her competing for a quite a while, now if what that translated Russian article said was true (Estella's therapy idea. And it is not far fetched from what I heard about.), I don't see how she can continue with the unmended injury with a lot of pain.

I hope you are wrong, Mzheng. And I would like to add that, if she does come back, I would happily accept a bet that she will not have to compete in regionals or sectionals. The USFSA can decide what is an "international competition" and can simply schedule an "international" cheesefest at the same time as the lower level competitions. And I'm sure they would, if Michelle wanted to come back.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

One other thing: why on earth would international judges watch tapes of National competitions? I am sure they have much better things to do than "validate" federations' selection criteria. That is the most nonsensical suggestion I have ever heard.

When the argument of judges watching practice sessions came up, the judges insisted that this is necessary to acquaint themselves with what the skater is going to do before the competition.

IMO, the judges would want to get as much information as possible on a top skater before international competitions begin. Hence my suggestion, the judges could tape the whatever competition to get that info.

Also there is interest in the competitors to know what and how any new innovative moves their rivals will be doing, and maybe stealing them . This happens, trust me, especially in Pairs and Dance.

With Shizuka doing a no hands Y spiral: if that was shown in the GPs, and on TV, all the flexible skaters would have it in their routines if they could emulate it.

It can be a cut throat sports and why not?

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Back to topic. The more I think about it, I think it is a moot point now.....It has been said that they(Kamp Kwan) all knew this would be her last season with or without the injury (I mean the injury made official, because she completely out of competetion).....So, imo, unless she desperately wants that 10th title, she most unlikely come back next season. Her parents were against her competing for a quite a while, now if what that translated Russian article said was true (Estella's therapy idea. And it is not far fetched from what I heard about.), I don't see how she can continue with the unmended injury with a lot of pain.

The above is said much better than I could. Regardless of how she gets to the Nats, she has to be in tip top shape to skate to win. I think there is a lot of 'hope' among some fans of Kwan to see her free of injury and pain. We know now that that wasn't so between the test skate and the Olympics. I think we have to get an honest report on her state of injuries as to whether they still exist, are chronic, or no longer exist. If that last possibility prevails, will she get back to at least her Tech standard at 2003? Will it be good enough to beat now seasoned skaters: Kimmie and Emilie, and if the eratic skaters hit: Alissa and Bebe? Maybe Sasha want two Nats titles.

Nothing wrong with HOPE but a little REALISM is worth a glance at.

Joe

 

[SusanBeth]

I am an American figure skating fan. Why did I spend all that time watching Japanese and Russian Nationals? Because, I wanted to see the skaters' programs before the Olympics. Did I prejudge just a little? You betcha! Why wouldn't the judges watch various nationals and form opinions on all manner of issues? I bet they actually LIKE watching figure skating competitions! Wild horses probably couldn't stop them from watching the big name skaters and arguing the issues over cocktails in "judge's bars".

 

[Tonichelle]

I guess two of you set up Kwan's standards. That's very compelling.

what's the difference between Red Dog saying this about Kwan when so many have said the same thing when it comes to Sasha/Irina/half a dozen others?

I've heard Kwan say "gold is nice" / "I like to win" over the years... so I don't think people are totally off base saying such things

that being said, I think time will tell... we have COI reports to gauge just how "bad" she "might" be "injured" and so that will keep us busy this summer before she makes a statement that will quash some rumors, and open up billions of new ones

I am an American figure skating fan. Why did I spend all that time watching Japanese and Russian Nationals? Because, I wanted to see the skaters' programs before the Olympics. Did I prejudge just a little? You betcha! Why wouldn't the judges watch various nationals and form opinions on all manner of issues? I bet they actually LIKE watching figure skating competitions! Wild horses probably couldn't stop them from watching the big name skaters and arguing the issues over cocktails in "judge's bars".

well the USFSA judges were all there for the mens and ladies finals... and many of them were there for the other competitions as well at US Nationals this year... and you could definitely tell which ones were favorites, so I think you're more right than people'd like to admit lol :yes:

 

[R.D.]

Right on!

I've heard Kwan say "gold is nice" / "I like to win" over the years... so I don't think people are totally off base saying such things

Really? The passive one? That's news to me! Whenever did she make such an outrageous comment? She should be ashamed of herself!

(TONGUE IN CHEEK, PEOPLE)

 

[Mathman]

Are there any statistics on these Cheesefests? I remember Sasha doing a beautiful Swan Lake at one of them. She's won more than one, hasn't she?

There are statistics about everything, LOL.

Not counting team events (USA against the world, etc.) and the audience vote thing last year, Sasha won the 2005 Campbell's Classic (Michelle did not compete), the 2004 Marshall's Challenge (Michelle 3rd, Irina 5th), the 2003 Campbell's Classic (the first time she beat Michelle, IIRC), and the 2002 Crest Whitestrips Challenge (Sarah Hughes was 2nd, Michelle did not compete).

Slutskaya won the 2004 Marshall's World Cup (Michelle 2nd, Sasha 3rd, Jenny Kirk was robbed, LOL), the 2001 Masters of Figure Skating, and the 2005 Japanese Invitational. No doubt she would have won more, but some of the events were U.S. skaters only.

Michelle won the 2004 Campbell's Classic, the 2003 Interational FS Challenge (Arakawa 2nd, Sasha 3rd), the 2003 ABC F.S. Challenge (Suguri 2, Sasha 3), and the 2002 Campbell's Classic.

If Michele decides not to compete with the amateurs next year, this is her big chance to organize these events into the new competitive pro circuit. A million dollars grand prize to anyone who can sweep the pro-am Triple Crown!

MM

 

[mzheng]

I hope you are wrong, Mzheng.
.

I hope i was wrong on this account too.
But the physical pain she was enduring this season, I just don't see how she can push through it for the trainning needed in the competetive skating. Since in general, Estella against her even using painkiller....with her trainning for Olympics she had used some, but I just don't see using it in daily practice without huge reason to justify.

Joe, she did just fine in both test skates (the one with media attendants and the other right before she left for Turino), especially the 2nd one she had a complete clean run through of SP. Then the very next day she started feeling seveer pain again, had to cut back on jumps. And when she is bothered by pain, she'd pop jumps or double them......she got an injection (though her coach strong recomended to use the stronger Russian countpart version, but probably not FDR approved.) treatment the day before she left for Turino.....according to someone in the known it was just one or two day too soon to start jump after that injection. These are moot points now as well......I gathered the injuries and/or arthritis were always there, they won't go away (some of them could be repaired by simple surgery, some just don't), only that pain can be reduced if let body warm/rest enough and applying some chinese herbe paste (Traditional chinese, surgery is the last option if it can be avoid. As long as pain can be maintained, I doubt even simple surgery is a option for her). But a little overdone in practice would push the pain to beyond and/or cause the new strains (such as this groin pulling)......At this point of her career for what? More medals? She does not need any more! More money? She has enough last her lifetime! More fame? She is most loved/popular skater in US!......these whys even parents can't understand....that's true she LOVES skating, she has those chrisma with ice. Stop competing now, without further damage to the body beyond repair, she can always enjoy skating and even skates in show. Did she just signed a four years contract with COI.

 

[Mathman]

OT, but have you ever wondered how acupuncture works, from the point of view of Western medicine? There are two neural systems that transfer pain signals from the body to the brain, the A-delta chain (for small stuff) and the C chain (for when it really hurts). If you twirl a needle at just the right spot where nerve fibres from both chains come together, not only does this unblock your "chi" (a very good thing to do in traditional Chinese medicine) but it also stimulates the A-delta nerve endings to generate a little drop of morphine.

This dulls the minor (A-delta) annoyance of the needle, but it also coincidentally disables the transmission of major pain on the C chain. So if you know what you are doing you can, so to speak, stick a needle in your big toe and then take out your appendix, pain free.

Something like that. It really works.

MM

 

[mzheng]

OT, but have you ever wondered how acupuncture works, from the point of view of Western medicine? There are two neural systems that transfer pain signals from the body to the brain, the A-delta chain (for small stuff) and the C chain (for when it really hurts). If you twirl a needle at just the right spot where nerve fibres from both chains come together, not only does this unblock your "chi" (a very good thing to do in traditional Chinese medicine) but it also stimulates the A-delta nerve endings to generate a little drop of morphine.

This dulls the minor (A-delta) annoyance of the needle, but it also coincidentally disables the transmission of major pain on the C chain. So if you know what you are doing you can, so to speak, stick a needle in your big toe and then take out your appendix, pain free.

Something like that. It really works.

MM

Oh, yeah. I heard of this back how many of years? Back then in china they use it in surgery to suspand the pain. But it was just for the sake of use 'chinese medicine for western medical' (something like that don't know how exactly translate to english). But from the patiant report, it does not work as well as the western ones. So they abondand it.

Talk about acupuncture therapy MK was using it almost daily this season. Estella had good personal experience with this. It cured her long time back pain completely.

 

[antmanb]

I would think, if she get bye at Regionals, then she automatically qualify a bye at Sectional. Since only top 4 finished in Regional advance to Sectionals, if she does not compete she can't advanced to Sectionals.


Yeah, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.......I still remember at the beginning of season even with Kwan camp and USFSA officially announce her injury she still dammed 'fake' it deemed by some fans.......and now see what happened to Cohen? The same fans quik to 'excuse' that she was injured, even with Camp Cohen officially 'denied'.

OK, while i agree with the start of this i really can't stand the attitude that people take of using one skater to make arguments against another unless it discussing the skills they have on the ice. Why bring Cohen into this debate...it just leads to silly flame wars discussing the fans of one skater and their behaviour towards fans of another skater...pointless.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

When the argument of judges watching practice sessions came up, the judges insisted that this is necessary to acquaint themselves with what the skater is going to do before the competition.

IMO, the judges would want to get as much information as possible on a top skater before international competitions begin. Hence my suggestion, the judges could tape the whatever competition to get that info.

Also there is interest in the competitors to know what and how any new innovative moves their rivals will be doing, and maybe stealing them . This happens, trust me, especially in Pairs and Dance.

With Shizuka doing a no hands Y spiral: if that was shown in the GPs, and on TV, all the flexible skaters would have it in their routines if they could emulate it.

It can be a cut throat sports and why not?

Joe

I'm kind of with Chuck on this one...using my home country (UK) as an example, the international judges at top brass at NISA are all very invested in getting our skater up to world standard level, that's a lot of work that is being done at home out of the two (inter?)national training centres in Nottinhgam and Sheffield. This season the judges have been going overboard getting CoP (NJS) implemented in this country and have been running test skates at various locations throughout the season to give skaters feedback on their programs and how they might score under CoP. In addition to this they have been both receiving training on the CoP and giving training to lower level judges and coaches/skaters on the CoP. They've been doing judging both nationally and internationally and then getting everything sorted in time for our National Championships.

At this point i find it very hard to believe that one of these people is going to be scratching their heads trying to think of how (and from whom) they can get a tape of US nationals convert it from NTSC to PAL or region 1 to region 2 so that they can watch US nationals....but a die hard with time on their hands i can believe maybe just might, after all they might have friends int he US. But trying to find out how any skater made it to nationals? Or trying to get any footage of regionals or sectionals (if there is any?)? Come on, no international judge is going to be doing that.

Coaches and choreographers i can understand why they try to find out what other skaters are doing...look at Mishin taping Sandhu skating (shame none of it actually came out in Plushy's skating ) but international judges have better things to do than wonder how the 5 time world champion made it to her national championships...they like the rest of the world would assume she got there like she did every year previously, cos she's one of the best in the world, so certainly one of the best in the US.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Ant - Your exlanation of the judges taping is convincing, and the work you are doing in the UK is overwhelming. I withdraw my theory.

It seems coaches will tape skaters any which way they can to ensure their skater(s) are up on the contents of programs. We agree. Your example of Mishin is the perfect example even at that level.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Mathman - Your love for the Cheesefests are steadfast, and you are determined to make them the most prestigious competitions more noteworthy than the Olympics.

Mzheng - I am not saying anything bad about the Test Skates MK did. Those went well. It's what happened to her afterwards. I believe the pain is chronic and I doubt very much she will be able to compete a whole season. If her fans wishes come true and she skates next season, it will be the same as it has been since 2003: Selected competitions; Less triples; Careful choreography.

We all know what she was once capable of, but we haven't seen any of that since quite some time. JMO.

If she skips Campbells, we'll know something is amiss.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Mathman - Your love for the Cheesefests are steadfast, and you are determined to make them the most prestigious competitions more noteworthy than the Olympics.

Yes, this is true. The Olympics will be gradually taken over by teeny-bopper "extreme" sports like snowboarding and hot dog ski tricks and fade into insignificance, LOL.

But actually, the reason that I like the December Marshall's event so much is that I get see it in person, while for the most part I can only see the other competitions on TV.

MM