If Michelle competes next year....

[antmanb]

Mathman - Your love for the Cheesefests are steadfast, and you are determined to make them the most prestigious competitions more noteworthy than the Olympics.

Well i think we've seen cheesefests in the past with higher jump content from the ladies than this year Olympics...maybe they will end up reigning supreme?!

Mzheng - I am not saying anything bad about the Test Skates MK did. Those went well. It's what happened to her afterwards. I believe the pain is chronic and I doubt very much she will be able to compete a whole season. If her fans wishes come true and she skates next season, it will be the same as it has been since 2003: Selected competitions; Less triples; Careful choreography.

We all know what she was once capable of, but we haven't seen any of that since quite some time. JMO.

If she skips Campbells, we'll know something is amiss.

Joe

Sigh...my one dream for this season was to Michelle skate a program and really let loose and skate the hell out of it with all her heart even if it only had 2 or 3 triples in it, preferably at the Olympics. Selfishly (as i have done every season) i hope she can do one more performance that i can watch.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Yes, this is true. The Olympics will be gradually taken over by teeny-bopper "extreme" sports like snowboarding and hot dog ski tricks and fade into insignificance, LOL.

But actually, the reason that I like the December Marshall's event so much is that I get see it in person, while for the most part I can only see the other competitions on TV.

MM

I'm turning green with envy...at the moment the highest level competition i've seen live is British nationals...i'd love to see an international event, but partly (well mostly really) the cost of an event to travel abraod to watch one of the GPs just doesn't seem worth it given how CoP is changing the sport into something i like less and also that the skating standard on the GP doesn't tend to be that great....come on let the UK host worlds again!!

Ant

 

[SusanBeth]

At this point i find it very hard to believe that one of these people is going to be scratching their heads trying to think of how (and from whom) they can get a tape of US nationals convert it from NTSC to PAL or region 1 to region 2 so that they can watch US nationals....but a die hard with time on their hands i can believe maybe just might, after all they might have friends int he US. But trying to find out how any skater made it to nationals? Or trying to get any footage of regionals or sectionals (if there is any?)? Come on, no international judge is going to be doing that.

Ant

:scratch: All you need is a computer and and less than an hour for downloading. (depending on your connection speed) I certainly didn't send to Russia or Japan for tapes. Every broadcasted skating competition in the world is generally available for download within hours. There's no fuss, converting, or trouble to it.

Believe me, if someone like Michelle skated at Regionals, it would be online before some of the audience made it home.

 

[antmanb]

:scratch: All you need is a computer and and less than an hour for downloading. (depending on your connection speed) I certainly didn't send to Russia or Japan for tapes. Every broadcasted skating competition in the world is generally available for download within hours. There's no fuss, converting, or trouble to it.

Believe me, if someone like Michelle skated at Regionals, it would be online before some of the audience made it home.

Personally i don't find the quality of the downlaodable videos to be worth watching that much, i've downloaded most of michelle's programs from the internet in attempt to get a "definitive collection" and find i can't really watch them, they stall in places, they blur, they're not clear, they're not big enough to really see the detail. I wouldn't pass an opinion on a prgram i'd only watched a download of because i don't think the quality is good enough. I'd also challenege anyone to find a computer literate enough international UK judge to find/download those performances!!!

Ant

 

[hockeyfan228]

I disagree that judges wouldn't be interested in the downloads. Reviewing videos was one of the key elements in developing the system in the first place. There are less than ten competitive-level skaters/teams in the UK, and many less in other countries. (Unfortunately, the only way we've seen some of the younger UK dance teams is via downloads.) If a judge wants to do "practice" judging, there are a limited number of skaters/teams and programs to be observed live. Downloads and videos are key to understanding not only what the top-level skaters are doing, but also the skaters who are at the same level as the up-and-comers in the UK (or any other country). Learning what actual elements receive what levels and GOE's is critical for the other task that judges have as part of being sponsored by Federations, and that is giving contextual feedback to their own country's skaters.

Unless sports like football and baseball, figure skating doesn't have an extensive, paid scouting system to size up the competition and analyze their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Sylvia]

But trying to find out how any skater made it to nationals? Or trying to get any footage of regionals or sectionals (if there is any?)?

FYI, as of this season, all U.S. regional/sectional qualifying competitions from juvenile through senior level (even the British Championships this past December) are available for downloading or viewing online with a paid subscription -- see:
http://www.mediazone.com/channel/figureskating/jsp/competitions.jsp

 

[Mathman]

...i'd love to see an international event, but partly (well mostly really) the cost of an event to travel abraod to watch one of the GPs just doesn't seem worth it given how CoP is changing the sport into something i like less and also that the skating standard on the GP doesn't tend to be that great....

I agree that the cost is a huge problem. It's not just getting there (Trophee Eric Bompard is not so far, for instance), but then you have a week's stay in an expensive hotel, plus meals and expenses, plus the tickets themselves, not to mention an ISU commemorative t-shirt, and you're up to 1000 pounds. And you probably have to take some time off work to go.

That's another thing in favor of the cheesefests. You go, you sit down, three hours later -- slam, bam, thank you ma'am -- you're back home in your bed, safe and sound, LOL.

To me, there are only two bad things about the cheesefests. They don't have pairs and dancing (cheese without dancing is hardly cheese at all!), and they are completely dependent on the drawing power of the featured stars. (In the U.S. this pretty much has meant Michelle over the last several years -- but now Sasha is quite popluar, too.)

The other complaint, that the quality of the skating in the Grand Prix events is not up to snuff, to me, that is not so much of a negative factor. Once you get there, it's still exciting as all get-out to see the competition unfold.

I was lucky enough to get to go to Skate America last year. Even though the advertised stars all withdrew, the contest between Elena Sokolova and Alissa Czisny was a barn-burner.

It is also fun to go to local club events and see the new kids on the block. That way, in 2010 I can say, "I knew Meryl Davis and Charlie White, and Kendra Moyle and Andy Seitz, way back when they were novices," LOL.

Mathman

 

[Mathman]

OK, One more post in praise of cheesefests

Absolutely, without rival, the most exciting figure skating event I ever saw was the 2004 Marshall's thing, and the battle for second place in the men's division. Plushenko was there, skating last, so that was that. But who would win the silver?

Lysacek was first, gave a great skate, and instantly became the audience favorite. (This was before anyone had heard of Evan Lysacek). Then one after another all the other, more famous skaters, took their shot.

Goebel -- he fell! Lysacek still leads!
Weiss...good effort...Evan's still in first!
Joubert ...into second. Lysacek holds on!
Weir ....comes a little short.
Last up, Griazev -- no cigar. Lysacek wins!!!!!

Are you ready for some FIGURE SKATING!!!!!!

 

[antmanb]

I disagree that judges wouldn't be interested in the downloads. Reviewing videos was one of the key elements in developing the system in the first place. There are less than ten competitive-level skaters/teams in the UK, and many less in other countries. (Unfortunately, the only way we've seen some of the younger UK dance teams is via downloads.) If a judge wants to do "practice" judging, there are a limited number of skaters/teams and programs to be observed live. Downloads and videos are key to understanding not only what the top-level skaters are doing, but also the skaters who are at the same level as the up-and-comers in the UK (or any other country). Learning what actual elements receive what levels and GOE's is critical for the other task that judges have as part of being sponsored by Federations, and that is giving contextual feedback to their own country's skaters.

Unless sports like football and baseball, figure skating doesn't have an extensive, paid scouting system to size up the competition and analyze their strengths and weaknesses.

I guess now that there have been more competitions held using CoP that might be more useful, though i know that when CoP was first introduced they used tapes of previous world and olympic competition to instruct. I think the downloads are limited in value for the reasons i already said before, namely that i don't think the quality of the downloads is particularly good and everyone i've ever watched has stalled at some point or another. I suppose that from now on the recent Olympics will be a good training tool since most of the levels and GOEs were given out there.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

FYI, as of this season, all U.S. regional/sectional qualifying competitions from juvenile through senior level (even the British Championships this past December) are available for downloading or viewing online with a paid subscription -- see:
http://www.mediazone.com/channel/figureskating/jsp/competitions.jsp

So they were - i had totally forgotten and i was sat behind the man doing the filming for teh webcast!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I agree that the cost is a huge problem. It's not just getting there (Trophee Eric Bompard is not so far, for instance), but then you have a week's stay in an expensive hotel, plus meals and expenses, plus the tickets themselves, not to mention an ISU commemorative t-shirt, and you're up to 1000 pounds. And you probably have to take some time off work to go.

That's another thing in favor of the cheesefests. You go, you sit down, three hours later -- slam, bam, thank you ma'am -- you're back home in your bed, safe and sound, LOL.

To me, there are only two bad things about the cheesefests. They don't have pairs and dancing (cheese without dancing is hardly cheese at all!), and they are completely dependent on the drawing power of the featured stars. (In the U.S. this pretty much has meant Michelle over the last several years -- but now Sasha is quite popluar, too.)

The other complaint, that the quality of the skating in the Grand Prix events is not up to snuff, to me, that is not so much of a negative factor. Once you get there, it's still exciting as all get-out to see the competition unfold.

I was lucky enough to get to go to Skate America last year. Even though the advertised stars all withdrew, the contest between Elena Sokolova and Alissa Czisny was a barn-burner.

It is also fun to go to local club events and see the new kids on the block. That way, in 2010 I can say, "I knew Meryl Davis and Charlie White, and Kendra Moyle and Andy Seitz, way back when they were novices," LOL.

Mathman

Yes TEB is one competition that i have been very tempted to go and see on a couple of occassions flights to paris are pretty cheap from the UK (i live near a major airport) and i can probably find a cheap hotel albeit not near the arena but its the general cost of Paris that leaves me reeling - the price of food, drink and travel is quite high and usually by November i'm scrabbling around to find holiday days left to take for Christmas let alone for that!

And this year is definitely out of the question - a Christmas/New Year holiday to Australia has left me with very little holiday for the rest of the year!

Ant

 

[mzheng]

OK, while i agree with the start of this i really can't stand the attitude that people take of using one skater to make arguments against another unless it discussing the skills they have on the ice. Why bring Cohen into this debate...it just leads to silly flame wars discussing the fans of one skater and their behaviour towards fans of another skater...pointless.

Ant

Well, a lot of silly and pointless disscussions around the skating boards. Just consider it as a remind.

 

[mzheng]

FYI, as of this season, all U.S. regional/sectional qualifying competitions from juvenile through senior level (even the British Championships this past December) are available for downloading or viewing online with a paid subscription -- see:
http://www.mediazone.com/channel/figureskating/jsp/competitions.jsp

It costs too much for reginals and sectionals compare to what coverage CCTV(china) and Russian TV online feed.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Yes TEB is one competition that i have been very tempted to go and see on a couple of occassions flights to paris are pretty cheap from the UK (i live near a major airport) and i can probably find a cheap hotel albeit not near the arena but its the general cost of Paris that leaves me reeling - the price of food, drink and travel is quite high and usually by November i'm scrabbling around to find holiday days left to take for Christmas let alone for that!

For the future, TEB is a great event to go to. It's three days. This past year the CD's were Thursday night, the OD's and SP's were on Friday, and the FS's and FD's were on Saturday. I flew in Saturday morning from the UK, and the day lasted from 2pm until almost midnight, with a dinner break.

I stayed in a hotel about three blocks from Gare de Lyon; I took the airport bus to the airport RER station, with a transfer at Gare du Nord. (IIRC it was 8.50 Euros, one way.) Gare de Lyon is one station from the Bercy station; the rink is right outside the Bercy Metro station. My hotel translated into about 70 GBP a night, with breakfast an extra 10 Euro, but there were posts on FSU listing hotel rooms for a lot less around Bercy. (I am an English-speaking wuss, and I found a hotel with an Expedia review that said the staff was English-speaking.) I had brought several sandwiches with me from Heathrow, and was thrilled to find vending machines with good snacks in the Metro, so I didn't spend very much on food. I don't even remember a pocketbook search, and I don't think there was a lot of concern at Bercy about bringing in food.

The ushers do expect to be tipped, which I didn't mind, since I had been forewarned.

 

[antmanb]

Well, a lot of silly and pointless disscussions around the skating boards. Just consider it as a remind.

Ok fair enough but then consider that by dragging Cohen into a discussion about Michelle you just exacerbate the point that RD makes that fans of Kwan are incapable of objective reasoning and worse still slag off another skater to try and make her look better. That's why i wanted to disassociate myself from that type of Kwan fan.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

For the future, TEB is a great event to go to. It's three days. This past year the CD's were Thursday night, the OD's and SP's were on Friday, and the FS's and FD's were on Saturday. I flew in Saturday morning from the UK, and the day lasted from 2pm until almost midnight, with a dinner break.

I stayed in a hotel about three blocks from Gare de Lyon; I took the airport bus to the airport RER station, with a transfer at Gare du Nord. (IIRC it was 8.50 Euros, one way.) Gare de Lyon is one station from the Bercy station; the rink is right outside the Bercy Metro station. My hotel translated into about 70 GBP a night, with breakfast an extra 10 Euro, but there were posts on FSU listing hotel rooms for a lot less around Bercy. (I am an English-speaking wuss, and I found a hotel with an Expedia review that said the staff was English-speaking.) I had brought several sandwiches with me from Heathrow, and was thrilled to find vending machines with good snacks in the Metro, so I didn't spend very much on food. I don't even remember a pocketbook search, and I don't think there was a lot of concern at Bercy about bringing in food.

The ushers do expect to be tipped, which I didn't mind, since I had been forewarned.

Excellent! Thanks so much for that information...i don't know why i thought the competition would be spread over more days than this. I forgot each discipline is a much smaller field at the GP. That does sound totally doable.

Watch this space...i might be doing reviews from TEB this year!!!

Ant

 

[mzheng]

Ok fair enough but then consider that by dragging Cohen into a discussion about Michelle you just exacerbate the point that RD makes that fans of Kwan are incapable of objective reasoning and worse still slag off another skater to try and make her look better. That's why i wanted to disassociate myself from that type of Kwan fan.

Ant

It was Cohen's fans I was talking about not Cohen.


My original post.

I still remember at the beginning of season even with Kwan camp and USFSA officially announce her injury she still dammed 'fake' it deemed by some fans.......and now see what happened to Cohen? The same fans quik to 'excuse' that she was injured, even with Camp Cohen officially 'denied'.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

It was Cohen's fans I was talking about not Cohen.


My original post.

Mzheng,

No one cares about facts when there is an opportunity rake Kwan fans over the coals... One day someone will explain to me why its okay to critize Kwan fans but NOT ok to mention another skater... it must be more than our sheer numbers that cause so much drama & angst.:sheesh: