Is my Matrix Supreme blade defective?

[skatespin]

I have been having problems with my new skates. I have an Edea Ice Fly with a Matrix Supreme Blade. Prior to this I had an Ice Fly (same exact size) with a John Wilson Gold Seal Blade. So naturally you would think the transition would be pretty smooth, since I am using the same exact boot with the same profile blade, the only difference was that I was switching to a Matrix which is lighter and made of stainless steal so I has a bit of a different feel when skating.

But even so, I have had so much trouble because I can't get a good mounting and proper blade alignment on these new skates. It's hard to exactly describe, but one of the blades (the one on my right foot) makes an odd whistling/squeak noise when I use it to push. The left foot blade does not make this noise. I have never encountered something like this before. On that blade it has been tough to get the blade feeling completely straight and properly aligned under my foot, when I do backward crossovers (left foot cross over right foot) the right blade gets pretty scratchy (kind of like I can't do it without my toe pick scraping at least a little and it definitely feels wrong). I've done crossovers for many years now, this is not a new skill to me (I'm working on Junior Moves in the Field) and I've never encountered this before, but the blade has been mounted more forward and moved side to side and then remounted to be more backwards and the problem is still there.

Has anyone encountered this before? Is my blade defective?

I am worried about the boots now too, they can't keep having holes put in the sole. Skates US mounted the blades for me the first time around and they did a terrible job, which was surprising because their skate tech should know how to mount an Edea well---they are the distributor of Edeas in the US and are supposed to know the most about them. I am very upset with them, they have wasted my time and money. I then had the heel of my left skate remounted (by a skate tech in my state who is fairly good but a long drive away) which helped straighten it out, but now I'm thinking that despite that the blade is just too forward and needs to be moved back a little. It's affecting my jumps (I land on my left foot) because I notice a tendency now to land axel/doubles on my heel or at best flat footed, rather that landing on my toe and rolling down to the ice. That was not something I was struggling with prior to changing skates.

So ultimately I want to know if anyone has experienced issues like these before. I don't know if it's defective or if it's a mounting problem and should just ask Jackson to send me a new right blade. I don't know if I should try returning them and getting a John Wilson Gold Seal. I kind of like the Gold Seal better, but I wanted something that holds a sharpening better because it's troublesome to get to a good sharpener that I trust and I want to do it as little as possible. I don't know how much more my Edeas can have the mounting changed, but I can't leave it the way it is now.

 

[tstop4me]

My coach recently recommended that I upgrade to Wilson Gold Seals. But I also wanted stainless steel runners. What I found was that a blade that is "comparable" to the Gold Seal does not mean that it is an exact clone. In particular, the Ultima and Eclipse versions have much flatter (larger radius) spin rockers than the actual Gold Seal ... this makes it easier to scrape your toepick. The main reason my coach wanted me to upgrade is because I want to nail a scratch spin, and she really likes the small-radius spin rocker of the Gold Seal. Paramount makes a big deal about copying the entire blade profile (main rocker, spin rocker, pick) of the comparable Wilson and MK blades. I have the Paramount version of the Gold Seal on order; hope it works out.

Is there a local skate tech you trust who could examine your blades (perhaps for a small fee?)?

 

[loopy]

Do you think the issue is the ounting or the blade itself? If it is the blade itself, ask the proshop where you bought it to have it replaced. Your coach may be able to see if it defective.

If it was mounted incorrectly, it might have warped the blade or the skate. You might see if they will replace the boot and blade.

I've never heard the sound you are describing, but when the blade on my daughter's skate was off, it made a weird rumbling sound and was difficult to glide on.

 

[sandraskates]

I know a man that bought a pair of hockey skates that made a squeaky sound when he walked and skated on them. He's a BIG guy and the skates were not strong enough for him. One of the hockey skaters thought the boots were defective. He returned them to the pro shop and got a sturdier model.

I'm thinking that the sound is not from your blade but from within the boot; perhaps some of the inner materials have come unglued and the sound you're hearing is air moving in-and-out between material layers.

If you find out what this sound is, let us us know!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

My coach recently recommended that I upgrade to Wilson Gold Seals. But I also wanted stainless steel runners. What I found was that a blade that is "comparable" to the Gold Seal does not mean that it is an exact clone. In particular, the Ultima and Eclipse versions have much flatter (larger radius) spin rockers than the actual Gold Seal ... this makes it easier to scrape your toepick. The main reason my coach wanted me to upgrade is because I want to nail a scratch spin, and she really likes the small-radius spin rocker of the Gold Seal. Paramount makes a big deal about copying the entire blade profile (main rocker, spin rocker, pick) of the comparable Wilson and MK blades. I have the Paramount version of the Gold Seal on order; hope it works out.

Is there a local skate tech you trust who could examine your blades (perhaps for a small fee?)?

I agree with tstop here.

Also, have your boots looked at, you might have a defective boot sole or something and it's causing the blade to be mounted incorrectly. I had this happen before and it's no fun.

 

[tstop4me]

To: OP.

To recap the good advice given by several posters, you (or a skate tech) need to check three things:

(1) the blade

(2) the boot

(3) the mounting of the blade to the boot.

One or more of the above can be defective.

Two other points:

(a) Another way in which blades comparable to the Gold Seals can differ from the actual Gold Seals: the tilt angle between the sole plate and the heel plate. If you place a boot (no blade mounted yet) upright with the heel and the sole resting on a flat surface, such as a tabletop, and look at the boot from the side, you will notice that the heel and the sole do not both simultaneously lie flat; there is a tilt angle between the heel and the sole of the boot. Similarly, if you place an unmounted blade edges up with the heel plate and the sole plate resting on a flat surface, and look at the blade from the side, you will notice that the heel plate and the sole plate do not both simultaneously lie flat; there is a tilt angle between the heel plate and the sole plate. The tilt angles vary between different boot manufacturers and between different blade manufacturers. Some blades mate readily with some boots; other combos require special care (possibly shims or spacers) for proper mounting.

(b) I mount my own blades. With traditional leather soles and heels, I can mount and remount over-and-over. I do a permanent patch of old holes with wood dowel and steel-filled epoxy. The patch is more robust than the original leather. I redrill as needed.

I have never worked on Edeas. But their website says the soles and heels are made of a carbon-fiber composite, not leather. They also sell custom carbon-fiber plugs for patches. They don't mention the type of adhesive to use. So be sure the skate tech who remounts your blades knows how to patch the old holes properly in your Edeas. If he knows how to do the patches properly, you shouldn't need to worry about the number of times you remount.

 

[Tayrayza]

Hi, I have gone through exactly what you are experiencing. It could have been me writing your post! Sadly, it is most likely that your new Edea boots are defective. The US manufacturer is having major problems right now and many, many of the boots are defective at the heels. I have been waiting 3 months to get a correct pair. I have Chorus boots and the right heel is crooked, so I cannot do jumps or spins on that foot. It forces me onto the inside edge. I had my blades moved several times, and thought it was just me, until one of my skate techs examined the boot and realized it was defective. I contacted the tech at the pro shop where I bought them and since that time he has discovered the same issue on many of the boots, and all models. He has ordered new pairs from different productions, but they still come in defective. Edea is not acknowledging the problem, but this is widespread. We have an international pairs team training at the rink where I bought my skates, and they have been through 4 pairs already trying to get a good pair. The tech who discovered my problem told me yesterday that he has sent 4 pairs back himself. I am at a loss as to what to do, since I can't move forward with my skating until I get good boots.

As a side note, I originally started on the new Edea's with the Matrix blade because I wanted to change to a super lightweight blade. But when I could not get on proper edges with them, I exchanged them for the Gold Seals, thinking that was the problem, having no idea that it was the boots. The Matrix blades were probably fine, and maybe I would have liked them just fine, if my boots had not been defective. But going back to the Gold Seals was a good move for me, and I've been able to putz along for a while as I wait on the new boots, but my patience has come to an end. Your Matrix blades are probably fine, and I suspect that it's the boot. Have a good skate tech check them and let me know what you find out. Good luck!!

 

[tstop4me]

Hi, I have gone through exactly what you are experiencing. It could have been me writing your post! Sadly, it is most likely that your new Edea boots are defective. The US manufacturer is having major problems right now and many, many of the boots are defective at the heels. I have been waiting 3 months to get a correct pair.

<<Emphasis added>>

Is this correct? I thought Edeas were made in Italy.

 

[NanaPat]

Hi, I have gone through exactly what you are experiencing. It could have been me writing your post! Sadly, it is most likely that your new Edea boots are defective. The US manufacturer is having major problems right now and many, many of the boots are defective at the heels. I have been waiting 3 months to get a correct pair.

I am at a loss as to what to do, since I can't move forward with my skating until I get good boots.

my patience has come to an end.

Have you thought of asking for a refund for the defective boots and getting a different boot from a different manufacturer?

 

[Tayrayza]

Edeas are made both in Europe and now in the U.S. It's the US manufacturer that is having the issues. Since they started mass production, that's when the problems started. My pro shop is trying to get my boots exchanged but the pairs that keep coming in are defective.The new blade I bought is 9 1/4, to fit Edea. It should fit the Riesport too, but I didn't feel as comfortable in them when I tried them on. If I change brands and go to a Jackson, I'll have to buy a larger blade, and also start over again with getting used to a different style boot. I really like the Edeas, so I would like to stay with them, but get a good pair.

 

[tstop4me]

Edeas are made both in Europe and now in the U.S. It's the US manufacturer that is having the issues. Since they started mass production, that's when the problems started. My pro shop is trying to get my boots exchanged but the pairs that keep coming in are defective.The new blade I bought is 9 1/4, to fit Edea. It should fit the Riesport too, but I didn't feel as comfortable in them when I tried them on. If I change brands and go to a Jackson, I'll have to buy a larger blade, and also start over again with getting used to a different style boot. I really like the Edeas, so I would like to stay with them, but get a good pair.

Gee, that's good info, though bad news for US manufacture. Would it still be possible to get the boots made in Italy, while the US production problems are being sorted out?

 

[skatespin]

Hi, I have gone through exactly what you are experiencing. It could have been me writing your post! Sadly, it is most likely that your new Edea boots are defective. The US manufacturer is having major problems right now and many, many of the boots are defective at the heels. I have been waiting 3 months to get a correct pair. I have Chorus boots and the right heel is crooked, so I cannot do jumps or spins on that foot. It forces me onto the inside edge. I had my blades moved several times, and thought it was just me, until one of my skate techs examined the boot and realized it was defective. I contacted the tech at the pro shop where I bought them and since that time he has discovered the same issue on many of the boots, and all models. He has ordered new pairs from different productions, but they still come in defective. Edea is not acknowledging the problem, but this is widespread. We have an international pairs team training at the rink where I bought my skates, and they have been through 4 pairs already trying to get a good pair. The tech who discovered my problem told me yesterday that he has sent 4 pairs back himself. I am at a loss as to what to do, since I can't move forward with my skating until I get good boots.

As a side note, I originally started on the new Edea's with the Matrix blade because I wanted to change to a super lightweight blade. But when I could not get on proper edges with them, I exchanged them for the Gold Seals, thinking that was the problem, having no idea that it was the boots. The Matrix blades were probably fine, and maybe I would have liked them just fine, if my boots had not been defective. But going back to the Gold Seals was a good move for me, and I've been able to putz along for a while as I wait on the new boots, but my patience has come to an end. Your Matrix blades are probably fine, and I suspect that it's the boot. Have a good skate tech check them and let me know what you find out. Good luck!!

Thanks for writing! About a week and a half ago I shipped my skates back to Skates US (the distributor in the US). I spoke with Josh, who is the main person I have dealt with at Skates US. I ended up doing a return of the blades and I am going to try purchasing another pair of Matrix Supremes locally, so I don't have to deal with Skates US in case the new pair has a problem. Josh said he could not see anything wrong with the boot. Personally, I did not have a good experience with Skates US. In my opinion they did a horrible mounting job, took a long time for everything and honestly I felt like I had to keep calling them or else I might never have gotten skates shipped to me in the first place. So Josh told me that nothing is wrong with the boot, but idk what to believe. I will probably still wonder, because I've never encountered a problem like this before and no one really saw a defect in the matrix blades from looking at them. Josh said he plugged the holes in my skates. I'm mad that this problem resulted in a bunch of useless holes in the bottom of an expensive boot and now I'm worried that I won't be able to get a good mount even if I have someone skilled do it. Another issue is that getting to a skilled person is sort of an inconvenience so I can't continue will all this trial and error. I'm almost thinking about switching brands and selling the Ice Flys, since although I like some things about them, I do experience foot pain because I have high arches. I use a different insole, but it's not a total fix. I am thinking of Risport, but like you said it's tough to get used to a different style boot, and I worry if they will fit my feet. I am actually going to start a separate thread to get some info on Risport, because I've recently heard some positive stuff about them, but they have way less exposure in the US than Edea, Jackson, and Riedell. And it's tough because I gotta figure this out soon, i'm already gonna be 2 weeks without practicing on Wednesday.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks for writing! About a week and a half ago I shipped my skates back to Skates US (the distributor in the US). I spoke with Josh, who is the main person I have dealt with at Skates US. I ended up doing a return of the blades and I am going to try purchasing another pair of Matrix Supremes locally, so I don't have to deal with Skates US in case the new pair has a problem. Josh said he could not see anything wrong with the boot. Personally, I did not have a good experience with Skates US. In my opinion they did a horrible mounting job, took a long time for everything and honestly I felt like I had to keep calling them or else I might never have gotten skates shipped to me in the first place. So Josh told me that nothing is wrong with the boot, but idk what to believe. I will probably still wonder, because I've never encountered a problem like this before and no one really saw a defect in the matrix blades from looking at them. Josh said he plugged the holes in my skates. I'm mad that this problem resulted in a bunch of useless holes in the bottom of an expensive boot and now I'm worried that I won't be able to get a good mount even if I have someone skilled do it. Another issue is that getting to a skilled person is sort of an inconvenience so I can't continue will all this trial and error. I'm almost thinking about switching brands and selling the Ice Flys, since although I like some things about them, I do experience foot pain because I have high arches. I use a different insole, but it's not a total fix. I am thinking of Risport, but like you said it's tough to get used to a different style boot, and I worry if they will fit my feet. I am actually going to start a separate thread to get some info on Risport, because I've recently heard some positive stuff about them, but they have way less exposure in the US than Edea, Jackson, and Riedell. And it's tough because I gotta figure this out soon, i'm already gonna be 2 weeks without practicing on Wednesday.

Go try the Risports. I have very high arches and I loved mine for dance. If you need any help you can PM me. And please go to a local verified skate pro this time.

 

[skatespin]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. In response to some of the earlier discussion I've come to figure out that the Supremes are only similar to a gold seal, they aren't an exact imitation. But I've changed blades before, it's tough at first, but you get used to it. So I stuck with the boots and blades for almost a month, but something definitely still seemed wrong. Like in a year from now i'd probably still be scratching the right toe pick on crossovers. Another indicator that something was wrong is that the same problem didn't exist on the other foot.

I've concluded that if I had easy access to people who can mount and sharpen blades well and money wasn't a factor and I could replace the gold seals whenever the rocker started to go, I'd probably stick with a gold seal, I think I like it better, it def feels like a smoother more quality product.

But what I like about the Matrix is the idea that it doesn't need to be sharpened as much therefore there is less up and down with my skating, like with skating on dull blades for weeks because I can't get to a good sharpener yet or I really need them sharpened so I give it to a not as good sharpener and then bye bye rocker. And then skating is rusty because they are so dang sharp.... and then the blades last longer and I don't need to spend $500 on new blade every year.

 

[Tayrayza]

Another adult skating friend ordered hers directly from Europe. That is on my list of options! Also, one of the teens ordered her 240 Ice Flys directly from Skates U.S. and they were perfect.

 

[Tayrayza]

Thanks Skatespin! It was good to converse with someone experiencing the same kind of issues. I've decided that I'm going to send an email to Skates U.S. this next week to see if I can get them moving on my replacement boots. My skate tech runs the shop in a massive rink, so I'm sure he has lots of things to do other than spend time on the phone with Edea constantly. My skate sharpener tech told me last week not to sharpen my new blades while they are on these crooked heels, so now my blades are so dull that I'll soon be off the ice .... again ... waiting on new skates. I wish you good luck and hope that you get your situation sorted out quickly too!

 

[tstop4me]

My skate sharpener tech told me last week not to sharpen my new blades while they are on these crooked heels, so now my blades are so dull that I'll soon be off the ice .... again ... waiting on new skates.

If you're desperate, and don't want to be off ice too long, your skate tech can demount the blades, sharpen them, and remount them,

 

[skatespin]

Thanks Skatespin! It was good to converse with someone experiencing the same kind of issues. I've decided that I'm going to send an email to Skates U.S. this next week to see if I can get them moving on my replacement boots. My skate tech runs the shop in a massive rink, so I'm sure he has lots of things to do other than spend time on the phone with Edea constantly. My skate sharpener tech told me last week not to sharpen my new blades while they are on these crooked heels, so now my blades are so dull that I'll soon be off the ice .... again ... waiting on new skates. I wish you good luck and hope that you get your situation sorted out quickly too!

Yeah, I'd definitely stay on top of Skates US. In my experience they seem to have no sense of urgency and will slowly get to your request when it pleases them unless you keep checking in and basically verbalize how it's unacceptable that you have to wait so long. It's not like they are making custom boots and only have one guy doing it...

I've heard some talk that the head of the company, David Ripp, is good, but just from calling I can tell you he is never the one answering the phone and he doesn't seem to be the one doing the work on the skates anymore.

I almost wanted to contact him to complain about my experience with Skates US. Such as how I had to pay for a mounting that felt absolutely horrible, for blades that ended up being returned anyways. Or about how Skates US sharpened the new blades and charged me $20 for it, even though I didn't ask to have my blades sharpened and I ended up paying again to have one of my sharpeners sharpen the blades better. But ultimately, I don't really know how to get in contact with him, I'd probably have to go try asking the person i'm unhappy with and ultimately I just want to eat the loss and be done with them.

 

[Lisunique]

Another adult skating friend ordered hers directly from Europe. That is on my list of options! Also, one of the teens ordered her 240 Ice Flys directly from Skates U.S. and they were perfect.

Where did she order them from? I don't think you can order from edeas website. I'm getting fitted for edeas in the US so I'm a bit worried about this whole defect thing...

 

[davincisoprano]

I ordered Edea Flamencos and Edea Ice Flies, both 240 D width in December 2016, since I was told Edea was making custom width boots if the standard wasn't quite wide enough. I got the runaround from SkatesUS/the guy I went through a few hours away for months in regards to where my skates were. Eventually I had them hunt down a pair of 240D Pianos (not my first choice but I was desperate at that point as my boots had broken down and were too large) and was able to get my flamencos four months later. SkatesUS kept saying that they were calling Edea and that Edea was claiming they "weren't making custom width at that time because they were focusing on standard width orders". I don't know how true that was, but there's definitely something going on with Edea/SkatesUS that isn't being addressed in regards to their boot manufacturing. :-/

Good luck getting your issue resolved!