Is there an active skater right now that can/will land a quintuple in their career?

[arewhyaen]

As we've seen countless times in skating, a jump is landed that seems so other worldly that it seems like skating has reached its ceiling. Then the rest of the field catches up, and in a couple seasons, it becomes a completely common part of someones technical content. This has happened with triple jumps, triple axels, quad toes/salchows, then the more difficult quads. And now with Ilia seeming to get a solid quad axel ready for competition, I'm sure we're only a few years out from having a half dozen guys all have a quad axel in their arsenal.

It feels like the next step in skating is the quint. I'm not a skater, but I have read other's opinions that the quintuple is physically impossible. But these things were also said for the quad axel, quad lutz, and quads in general for ladies. So assuming its possible, is there a skater out there that you believe will be the first to land the quint?

 

[lariko]

As we've seen countless times in skating, a jump is landed that seems so other worldly that it seems like skating has reached its ceiling. Then the rest of the field catches up, and in a couple seasons, it becomes a completely common part of someones technical content. This has happened with triple jumps, triple axels, quad toes/salchows, then the more difficult quads. And now with Ilia seeming to get a solid quad axel ready for competition, I'm sure we're only a few years out from having a half dozen guys all have a quad axel in their arsenal.

It feels like the next step in skating is the quint. I'm not a skater, but I have read other's opinions that the quintuple is physically impossible. But these things were also said for the quad axel, quad lutz, and quads in general for ladies. So assuming its possible, is there a skater out there that you believe will be the first to land the quint?

Maybe someone light, slim, short with extremely fast rotations. Malinin is an obvious candidate, who knows what Trusova would do and there’s also Petrosyan who is very small and very fast. Let’s watch JGP this year and see if there is another up-and-coming jumper?

 

[4everchan]

the closest to a quint, would be a 4axel... as a matter of fact, many skaters have an easier time with the quad toe than the 3 axel..

So if it is possible, then I'd look at Malinin, since he seems to be the only one yet able to land a quad axel

 

[MCsAngel2]

Yuma or Ilia (if he doesn't grow much more, he is only 17 after all), since he does have a 4A now.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I would bet on a Russian - they are already getting youngsters to try quints on harnesses.

Malinin is obvious the best candidate from the senior field but one step/goal at a time. 4A is already freaking insanely remarkable.

 

[lariko]

Personally, I would also be more inclined to look to women vs men and ignore the assertions that it is not physically possible. Physically possible calculations in all likelihood looked at men and men’s average body, but in figure skating, there are no average bodies. So, looking at completely unexpected builds, i.e. very slim women with strong, lean musculature and from the generation that is raised on the idea that quads and quints are possible is the key. No mental block and the body type not factored in whatever models they used to say ‘nah, humans can’t do it’.

Also, lol, it depends on the tech panel. Next year, for all we know, in the eyes of the beholder, Kondratyuk will fully rotate a quint, lol.

 

[macy]

if anyone, Ilia.

however i do not think we will ever see a time when we see even a handful do quints in competition. i'd even be willing to bet none, not even Ilia.

 

[mrrice]

Ilia, is the first skater that came to mind. Possibly one of the Japanese Men. With his quick rotations, I imagine Nathan could have but, I think he's done with competitive skating.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Last year I would have said no way,

But after seeing Ilias 4A I now see possibility for people to be able to do 5. Be it Ilia, Yuma or somebody else.

 

[gkelly]

No one will try it in competition until quints are added to the Scale of Values.

If people start successfully landing 4A in competition and landing quints in practice, then the ISU may choose to add them to the SoV. If so, more people will start training them and attempting in competition.

 

[readernick]

I think so. As others have mentioned, skaters like Ilya and Yuma ( also Shun Sato and Kao Miura) are capable of jumping really high and rotating very quickly. I can see one of them landing a quint in competition. I don't think any of them will consistently land quints though...

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Daniel Grassl hasn't been mentioned yet and he has said he wants to try quints, and Yuma wants to start training them in two years (chaos child) but Ilia has the best shot right now imo with his 4A but injury or a few more inches of growth could seriously mess up his chances.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

No one will try it in competition until quints are added to the Scale of Values.

If people start successfully landing 4A in competition and landing quints in practice, then the ISU may choose to add them to the SoV. If so, more people will start training them and attempting in competition.

They really should add quints to the SOV, but I think the 4A would probably need to be landed first.

 

[moonvine]

I sure hope not. Already vast overemphasis on jumps is ruining skating.

 

[lariko]

They really should add quints to the SOV, but I think the 4A would probably need to be landed first.

I hope so. I think if Malinin lands it, we’ll see revisions for the jump values for the next gen.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I sure hope not. Already vast overemphasis on jumps is ruining skating.

I semi-agree with you.
On the one hand, I love jumps and the athletic side - and as a sport, I think increasing jump difficulty is a good thing.
On the other hand, the potential for injury increases a lot - I don't want to see athletes put under pressure to perform these jumps and destroy their bodies.
In addition, I don't want the performance nature (and technical nature of edgework, one foot skating, transitions) to be lost in exchange for quints - or even loads of quads. Once programs get above even 4 quads, they are losing lots of artistic value to me as it stands based on cleanliness and transitions removed. some 4 quad programs (e.g. Semei) still hold a lot of fantastic PCS value, but for me even when Hanyu goes for the 5th quad (Art on ice) it either loses cleanliness or detracts from the skating itself vs 4 quads. Same goes for every skater I've seen so far when adding more quads.

Maybe figure skating should add base values for quints etc, but restrict the number of quints/quads you can perform - or increase value of PCS whilst having stricter judging for it/better judge training to allow those with fantastic skating skills to have same reward as fantastic jumpers with worser skating. I don't know what they should do - but there has to be a system that weights the values of spins, step sequences, jumps and performance/skating skills correctly. (I do distinguish between technical skating skills/TR and performance, because "artistry" etc holds no meaning to me as a term, and there can be beautifully technical skating that I don't connect with and beautiful outward performance that lacks skating ability.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I semi-agree with you.
On the one hand, I love jumps and the athletic side - and as a sport, I think increasing jump difficulty is a good thing.
On the other hand, the potential for injury increases a lot - I don't want to see athletes put under pressure to perform these jumps and destroy their bodies.
In addition, I don't want the performance nature (and technical nature of edgework, one foot skating, transitions) to be lost in exchange for quints - or even loads of quads. Once programs get above even 4 quads, they are losing lots of artistic value to me as it stands based on cleanliness and transitions removed. some 4 quad programs (e.g. Semei) still hold a lot of fantastic PCS value, but for me even when Hanyu goes for the 5th quad (Art on ice) it either loses cleanliness or detracts from the skating itself vs 4 quads. Same goes for every skater I've seen so far when adding more quads.

Maybe figure skating should add base values for quints etc, but restrict the number of quints/quads you can perform - or increase value of PCS whilst having stricter judging for it/better judge training to allow those with fantastic skating skills to have same reward as fantastic jumpers with worser skating. I don't know what they should do - but there has to be a system that weights the values of spins, step sequences, jumps and performance/skating skills correctly. (I do distinguish between technical skating skills/TR and performance, because "artistry" etc holds no meaning to me as a term, and there can be beautifully technical skating that I don't connect with and beautiful outward performance that lacks skating ability.

I'm kinda, meh, we've already seen skaters with good skating skills. I haven't seen skaters do quints or some of the technical feats.

Of course, good overall skating is nice to see. But I'd rather a skater up their technical firepower and give themselves the best chance to win (they're competing, after all) and develop their skating skills as well.

A skater with quints or quads is doing something special. A skater with deeper edges isn't, even if aesthetically it makes them a better skater.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

A skater with quints or quads is doing something special. A skater with deeper edges isn't, even if aesthetically it makes them a better skskater.

I'd disagree.
For me, Patrick chan is one of the most special skaters there is, and almost all of that was because of the PCS side.
Doing everything technically on the PCS side is hard. Maybe not quint hard, but many skaters who have quads would never be able to skate like Patrick chan. To dismiss the achievement as something that isn't special, to me doesn't make any sense. Or to dismiss how hard you have to train, and how difficult it is to get that level of skating skills.

Most elite skaters will understand the process, but it's hard to audiences to grasp just how difficult it is to get the perfect kneebend with perfect timing with perfect extensions and perfect edgework/footwork. Fast, elegant, effortless pushing, strong basic movement technique. There's a reason these skaters are 4 or 5 a generation. Even skaters like Jason Brown (who I love), who have amazing poses and flexibility and transitions etc don't have that high degree of skating skills that Chan possesses, to give you the idea of the bar I'm setting.

 

[YuBluByMe]

If a 4A is possible, then so is a quint. In fact, I think we’re more likely to see more quints than 4As in the future. It’s rare that a skater – both male and female - is comfortable with both quads and 3As and the 3A seems to be more difficult for the quadsters. There’s no reason to believe this concept won’t apply with quints and 4As.

In the past few months, we learned that 4A is possible because we’ve seen Ilia Malinin land it. The encouraging thing is that he never actually had any problem with the rotation; it was the landing he needed to control. He’s a very talented, naturally gifted jumper, the rare skater that has no problem with axels or quads so I can him doing both a 4A and a quint. He’s the only currently active skater I can imagine doing both. I can see Shun Sato pulling off a 5T. I’m pretty sure Sato has the biggest 4T among current skaters and he can definitely get another rotation on that thing.

Figure skating is a sport, or it’s supposed to be anyway. Therefore, in no way should jumps – any jumps regardless of number of rotation - be limited. If you want to increase the PCS and the value of non-jump elements, then do that . Lowering the value of quads and/or limiting the number of jumps isn’t the answer. That’s just a handicap. And if a talented jumper needs to be handicapped for a “beautiful skater” but less talented jumper to win, then that beautiful hot mess of a skater doesn’t deserve to win.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

If a 4A is possible, then so is a quint. In fact, I think we’re more likely to see more quints than 4As in the future. It’s rare that a skater – both male and female - is comfortable with both quads and 3As and the 3A seems to be more difficult for the quadsters. There’s no reason to believe this concept won’t apply with quints and 4As.

In the past few months, we learned that 4A is possible because we’ve seen Ilia Malinin land it. The encouraging thing is that he never actually had any problem with the rotation; it was the landing he needed to control. He’s a very talented, naturally gifted jumper, the rare skater that has no problem with axels or quads so I can him doing both a 4A and a quint. He’s the only currently active skater I can imagine doing both. I can see Shun Sato pulling off a 5T. I’m pretty sure Sato has the biggest 4T among current skaters and he can definitely get another rotation on that thing.

Figure skating is a sport, or it’s supposed to be anyway. Therefore, in no way should jumps – any jumps regardless of number of rotation - be limited. If you want to increase the PCS and the value of non-jump elements, then do that . Lowering the value of quads and/or limiting the number of jumps isn’t the answer. That’s just a handicap. And if a talented jumper needs to be handicapped for a “beautiful skater” but less talented jumper to win, then that beautiful hot mess of a skater doesn’t deserve to win.

I agree on the point about more likely to see quints as well, purely due to the fact you can take more momentum into the backwards takeoff and entrance steps. Axel you can't carry as much speed into it - or at least convert it into momentum the same way you can do with toe and salchow.
Of course using momentum to land jumps is probably not sustainable/encouraged, but it means we might see people land quints this way