Is there an active skater right now that can/will land a quintuple in their career?

[AxelLover]

Off the current senior skaters, the ones with the biggest chance to land a quint would be Ilia, Yuma or Shun Sato. I don't follow junior skaters that much, so I'm not going to make any guesses for that category.

Anyway, I think that 5T or 5S is going to happen eventually. I mean, these jumps have roughly 4.5 rotations in the air while 4A has 4.25. Don't get me wrong, I think that adding 1/4 of a turn to 4.25 is actually very difficult, but it's not impossible.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I'd disagree.
For me, Patrick chan is one of the most special skaters there is, and almost all of that was because of the PCS side.
Doing everything technically on the PCS side is hard. Maybe not quint hard, but many skaters who have quads would never be able to skate like Patrick chan. To dismiss the achievement as something that isn't special, to me doesn't make any sense. Or to dismiss how hard you have to train, and how difficult it is to get that level of skating skills.

Most elite skaters will understand the process, but it's hard to audiences to grasp just how difficult it is to get the perfect kneebend with perfect timing with perfect extensions and perfect edgework/footwork. Fast, elegant, effortless pushing, strong basic movement technique. There's a reason these skaters are 4 or 5 a generation. Even skaters like Jason Brown (who I love), who have amazing poses and flexibility and transitions etc don't have that high degree of skating skills that Chan possesses, to give you the idea of the bar I'm setting.

I agree that there are exceptions like Chan and Brown who have developed skating skills that are sublime but to me, these are skills ingrained very early on.

When people are like "Skater X need to develop their skating" instead of focus on the jumps, for the vast majority of skaters, they'll never hit the top of the world if their focus is on their overall skating (again with very rare exceptions like Brown) compared to their jumps. And it's not like skaters don't constantly develop their overall skating as it is, with how long they train. They're not training solely jumps 5-6 hours a day.

If a skater could land a quint, in the long run, it wouldn't matter how terrible their overall skating was. They'd be legendary in the sport and cement their place in skating history. If a skater was the best ever in terms of skating skills, etc. but couldn't do triples, then their career wouldn't be as prolific (at least not these days). Really, it should be up to the skater as to what they want to prioritize. I kinda view it like gymnasts with eponymous skills who aren't the most refined or elegant to look at but still go for historical achievements. But YMMV.

 

[gkelly]

I'd like to see a separate discipline of ice jumping devoted to pushing the envelope on in-air feats, so that blade-to-ice skills would remain the dominant focus of well-balanced free skating.

 

[Kris135]

Well I think Ilia has the inside track on actually doing a quint. In an IG conversation with couple of his friends a few months ago he did.say that his ultimate goal is to have a quint lutz so he going to have to do at least a quint toe loop on the way to that goal and he said going to try doing a quint if one of his friends social media posts got enough likes or something along those lines. I know it going to be awhile but I think he will do it by the 2026 Olympics.

 

[Arwen17]

I'd like to see a separate discipline of ice jumping devoted to pushing the envelope on in-air feats, so that blade-to-ice skills would remain the dominant focus of well-balanced free skating.

When Russia had their separate jump competition before their actual free skate competition for the last Cup of Russia, I did enjoy it, but it made me realize I definitely prefer my ice jumping to be packaged up with some music and spins and footwork, not just pure jumping. I want jumps to be the main element of the feast, but I don’t want to monomeal it. The other stuff is the side dishes that really make the jumps even more exciting.
So I don’t think there should be separate competitions. The most I would accept is rebalancing the scoring system a LITTLE.

I know Jason’s special, but at the same time it feels wrong to place him above others who can land MULTIPLE quads when he can’t even land one quad. Skaters like Jason are special, but they aren’t “well-rounded” to me. They’re like the opposite extreme of Trusova because she’s not well-rounded either. Notice that the skaters who have some of the artistry and some of the quads jumps are usually winning over “no-quads-all-art” Jason types and “all-jumps-screw-art” Trusova types.

While grades of execution judging needs to be more accurate, I think the sport is fine in trying to balance art vs athlete.

And I say that as someone who really wants to just give all the medals to Trusova because her athleticism is so incredible that I do feel like “who cares about art?” when watching her.

 

[lariko]

No idea why people can’t just discuss the topic at hand, but instead jump to ‘should be forbidden/penalized!’ but since it’s allowed, here is my two long cents about prohibitions and proscriptions.

Jumps are exciting.

We can all see jumps, and the beautiful, amazing, high, large jumps—even easier. But ‘art’? That’s individual’s perception. The ability to deliver routine cleanly is basically sport. Upgrading it with difficult elements is sport. But the percentage of audience that decided skater had ‘connected to music’ is not sport, because it doesn’t even assess the skater. It partially assesses the audience. Like, Brown picks music that is significant to American audience and is linked to the American dancing and civil rights movement history. Amazing… if you know/deeply connected to that.

In our day and age, universality of art is questioned more and more, as the artists in all fields move toward finding a niche to assert win accolades, vs attempting the universal appeal like back in the days when you could count works shown on mainstream media on the fingers of one hand.

Figure skating is already catering to one such niche audience, but even this niche audience is large enough to have its own niches.

Anyone calling for curtailing what appeals to groups within fandom, is actively depriving figure skating of its already tentative hold on the audience.

Forcefully re-educating the taste of others can only achieved by nefarious means. Where audience is there of its own free will, taking away or purposely diminishing what they enjoy the most will simply lose the audience.

1 out of 4 figure skating disciplines doesn’t have jumps… or at least it didn’t till this year, and we are yet to see how integration of assisted jumps is going to go in ice dance… I am really curious, tbh.

I found jumping tournaments engaging, because they were team competition. I think they would be educational in a way to see how different skaters jump the same jump, sort of like in juniors everyone has to jump the same two jumps in short program.

But the fun part of watching jumps is also in suspense of not knowing if the skater can land the complex one or not in the routine.

The thing I look the most toward this season, is to see if Malinin can integrate 4A in a figure skating routine and all the development that would follow, including, for sure, the conversation about the quintuple jumps.

If Malinin lands it, it is inevitable, because just like athletes who can’t do 3A go for quads, wanting to get a competitive edge would lead to finding ways to land quints. And, being novelty, it will draw most of the attention. Forbidding or curtailing it is robbing figure skating of audience, and that’s just a bad idea in our day and age when dropping to obscurity is so easy for entertainment industry providers.

Also, attempts to land higher tier jumps don’t really seem to hamper skaters with strong SS or good spinning abilities. It mostly impacts those who are either jacks-of-all or will struggle with SS and spins no matter what. It’s good that they have options to score in different ways.

 

[mrrice]

I sure hope not. Already vast overemphasis on jumps is ruining skating.

I agree. With the current climate, I think solid quads and big component numbers are the key to victory.

 

[twirlingblades]

Ilia- but throwing some for fun, not in competition.

 

[Warwick360]

When people bring up quints, I cry for the people's hips and the toes. Takes me back to the days when I used to cringe whenever triple loop-triple loop combo used to be done (especially when done tenaciously/forcefully by some).

 

[Jontor]

I wouldn't be surprised if Malinin is already training quintuples.

I feel though that the ISU should step in and forbid them. The evolution of figure skating needs to be something else than just more difficult jumps.

 

[4everchan]

@lariko whole post

I don't disagree that jumps = easier to assess the sportive content

However, I disagree about interpretation and packaging... to be able to skate very well to music requires utmost control of the blade and entire body. It's highly technical and requires enormous training. Speed and glide, the way Patrick Chan does it, has been said by his main competitors, to require so much strength and endurance and years of training, from the beginnings. I love jumps too. But since the 8 jumps in a long program take about 10 seconds of the 3.5 minutes... I like to be able to enjoy the rest of the program as well, not as entertainment, but as sport... meaning with intricate footwork, deep blades, speed, flow, glide, excellent posture... That is also sport. That is figure skating.

If Ilia does land a quint, it will be exciting. If he does improve his skating skill in a very significant way, then I will appreciate his athleticism even more.

 

[lariko]

@lariko whole post

I don't disagree that jumps = easier to assess the sportive content

However, I disagree about interpretation and packaging... to be able to skate very well to music requires utmost control of the blade and entire body. It's highly technical and requires enormous training. Speed and glide, the way Patrick Chan does it, has been said by his main competitors, to require so much strength and endurance and years of training, from the beginnings. I love jumps too. But since the 8 jumps in a long program take about 10 seconds of the 3.5 minutes... I like to be able to enjoy the rest of the program as well, not as entertainment, but as sport... meaning with intricate footwork, deep blades, speed, flow, glide, excellent posture... That is also sport. That is figure skating.

If Ilia does land a quint, it will be exciting. If he does improve his skating skill in a very significant way, then I will appreciate his athleticism even more.

I dunno what specifically in my post made you to say that but I was saying that jumping only is not interesting, so it is good to have it integrated and not forbidden as some posters immediately call for the second the topic of ultra content arises.

 

[Apple1078]

Ilia, is the first skater that came to mind. Possibly one of the Japanese Men. With his quick rotations, I imagine Nathan could have but, I think he's done with competitive skating.

Nathan considered training one last season: https://slate.com/culture/2022/02/figure-skating-quintuple-jumps-quints-possible-doable-physics.html

ETA: But decided against it because “It’s not really necessary, and the risk for injury is so high that it’s also not really worth it right now”.

 

[Warwick360]

I wouldn't be surprised if Malinin is already training quintuples.

I feel though that the ISU should step in and forbid them. The evolution of figure skating needs to be something else than just more difficult jumps.

If possible, I'd love to see one. A good one. But with a cap of one per LP. Otherwise I agree. It's bound to make technical score/focus more lopsided than it already is.

 

[4everchan]

I dunno what specifically in my post made you to say that but I was saying that jumping only is not interesting, so it is good to have it integrated and not forbidden as some posters immediately call for the second the topic of ultra content arises.

the entire discussion about art ... my point is that what some may think is "art' is actually highly technical athletic skills = sport.

 

[lariko]

the entire discussion about art ... my point is that what some may think is "art' is actually highly technical athletic skills = sport.

I don’t disagree with that, in fact, i detest when it’s called art, and ‘elevated’. word ‘art’ fortifies an argument and gives it a veneer of sophistication, and gives the fake appearance of ‘one true way’ figure skating must be, that jumps threaten.

Nothing can be further from truth. Jumps do not threaten figure skating. Fearing jumps is ridiculous.

I insist on calling it skating skill, glide and keeping up with music along with a couple of skills that indicate great muscle memory and superior stamina (I.e. ability to look up and maintains facial expression), but it is already measured, scored and nobody is calling for eliminating it. The ice dance as a discipline is dedicated to it in its entirety.

My point is, forbidding or under-valuing or belittling ultra content has no impact on individual skater’s ability to develop skating skills to the max they can achieve. It only would bring acrimony and won’t let us witness something awesome.

In layman’s terms, when folks gather to admire ultra jumps, there is no call to show up and diss on jumps. It’s much like Fan Fest rules. It’s bad manners to show into a fan fest thread and start telling peeps who love a specific skater how bad they are. It’s incredibly tiring that you can’t hold a convo about something you sincerely admire without in three-two-one somebody taking upon themselves to show up with a ‘must be forbidden/not skating!’ post.

 

[4everchan]

Nothing can be further from truth. Jumps do not threaten figure skating. Fearing jumps is ridiculous.

Jumps themselves do not threaten figure skating. I agree. Fearing jumps is ridiculous, at first level, I agree.

The problem though is that the extreme focus on jumps, especially from a young age, as younger and younger skaters chase the big jumps, DOES detract from time spent acquiring the utmost skating skills. It takes a lot of time to learn how to skate like Patrick Chan for instance.

This is why some people fear the focus on jumping... the jumps themselves fine.... but not just the jumps.

Way before you began folowing figure skating but it had already started...

Here is Kurt Browning (first man to land a quad toe) talking to young Patrick Chan : it is clear from the 15 seconds video that the focus for the kids is already on learning their triples first, then learning how to skate... rather than learning how to skate first and then acquiring harder elements.

I wish the scoring system were slightly different.
Give points for jumps. Give points for spins, Gives points for steps/choreo sequences. But also give points for Edge quality, Flow, Speed, and moves in the field. PCS? Make it one mark about choreo/interpretation etc. I don't like that skating skills is PCS. To me, that's technical. And then, perhaps, we could see proficient figure skaters who do quads AND skate well. They are rarer and rarer.

YMMV

For your enjoyment

â 2002 Kurt Browning's Ice Legends: Osborne Colson part2

Kurt Browning's Ice Legends: Osborne Colson (2002)

youtu.be

 

[lariko]

The problem though is that the extreme focus on jumps, especially from a young age, as younger and younger skaters chase the big jumps, DOES detract from time spent acquiring the utmost skating skills. It takes a lot of time to learn how to skate like Patrick Chan for instance.

Not learning jumps detracts from jumps. They learn both to the best of their ability in the time they have. There are plenty of skaters who have strong skating skill, while very, very few who could perform ultra content. entire whole discipline of ice dance is dedicated to it and only it. Pair skaters do not perform ultra content either. And zero skaters landed a jump above quad. Zero! While they showed skating skill since 1800’s, literally hundreds of skaters if not even thousands by now and they continue to do so.

The problem is invented.

 

[4everchan]

Not learning jumps detracts from jumps. They learn both to the best of their ability in the time they have. There are plenty of skaters who have strong skating skill and entire whole discipline dedicated to it. The problem is invented.

Not true. Having great flow, speed, edge control makes jumps better. Jumps do not happen spontaneously out of pure force and rotation. Or at least, they shouldn't happen that way.

Not many have managed to learn both to achieve a high level of balance.

We won't agree on this, and that's fine by me. However, I wanted to make clear that I find Ilia's jumping very exciting and I do believe he could land a quint. That doesn't mean that he will become one of my favourite skaters if his skating skills remain at their current level. However, I have hope : he is young.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The physics involved would make it rare to impossible. Can we just see how many men will be able to accomplish the quad-axel first, along with a full complement of quads??? We aren't even there yet. So why the need to rush so quickly into speculation about quints.

What should be next for skaters is perfecting blade skills, speed, refinement, better choreo and music selection. What should be urgent for those men still trying to acquire, maintain or increase quads, is finding a way to still incorporate artistry and storytelling. Sigh.

Plus, don't leave out women in the discussion of acrobatics. Why talk about next to impossible quints, when quads have yet to be fully mastered by a majority of top skaters in both singles disciplines? Even in pairs, there's an apparent reluctance to continue the push for quad throws and quad twists, due understandably to safety reasons. Why not slow down and appreciate the present?