Jackson Artiste vs Freestyle for Beginner

[catchmeskating]

Hey all! Looking for advice on what makes more sense for my first pair of skates

I'm (male, 140lb) planning to get them fitted from a pro shop and the options available for men come down to Jackson Artiste or Jackson Freestyle. Cost is ~230 vs ~370.

My background has just been public skating on rentals - I can do crossovers and some backwards (prob from my rollerskating experience).

My main goal is just to take advantage of the multiple free/inexpensive winter rinks available in NYC in the winter seasons. So immediate term will probably skate a lot the next two months just self learning/from friends. After that, before winter rolls around again will probably go occasionally to the rink/consider lessons depending how much I'm into it.

Being such a beginner it seems like Artiste makes more sense/is generally recommended.

However I wonder if there's merit (if I'm willing to invest the extra upfront cost) to get the Freestyles to have a better blade/boot already for the next few years and one that is supposed to be able to handle jumps if I get into that in the future? The fitter said Artiste's can't handle jumps (could break?) though a bit confused since officially the Jackson website says Artiste can support up to ISI FS2 (https://jacksonultima.com/blogs/news/jackson-ultima-support-rating-system) which seems to include things like waltz jumps/bunny hop/half lutz.

Really hard for me to know how far I'll get into this or if/how many classes I'll take, just don't want to start skating and not long after (or like even a year later) feel like my skates aren't quite as 'advanced' as should be to support what I'm trying.

Outside of support for jumps (like if I don't end up going beyond very basic jumps) is there still much value for the Freestyles over Artiste? Also want to double check if any gotchas that might make one or the other harder for a beginner to start learning on.

Clearly I'm a noob! Thanks for any and all the advice!

 

[tstop4me]

I'm (male, 140lb) planning to get them fitted from a pro shop and the options available for men come down to Jackson Artiste or Jackson Freestyle. Cost is ~230 vs ~370.

* Why are your only two options the Jackson Artiste or the Jackson Freestyle? Go to a pro shop with a competent fitter who carries multiple manufacturer lines. The fitter needs to determine whether Jackson or some other brand is the right fit for you in the first place. But note: The Artiste and the Freestyle are formed on different lasts, so the fit will be somewhat different.

* Assuming that Jackson is right for you, and assuming you limit your decision to a choice between Artiste and Freestyle, go with the Freestyle: (1) the Artiste doesn't have the support you need, (2) the Artiste is not heat moldable, but the Freestyle is, and (3) the Freestyle will outlast the Artiste, largely offsetting the initial cost differential (assuming you continue to skate).

Being such a beginner it seems like Artiste makes more sense/is generally recommended.

* I love these agentless passive voice constructions. "Is generally recommended" by whom? I go to a first-rate tech who runs a figure skating specialty shop (not a hockey shop that carries figure skates on the side). For adult beginners for whom Jackson is the right fit, he always recommends the Freestyle (which is Jackson's top boot+blade combo kit). He will reluctantly sell an adult beginner a lower model only if they flat out refuse to pay the extra price.

 

[Lutz Mark]

Hi,

Check the Jackson catalogs. For a skater over 80 pounds, the Artiste stops at the USFSA Basic Skills 4-6 level. These are all basically edge and stroking skills with some beginning 3-turns, stops, and crossovers. Being (I assume) a full grown male and with your weight, between the two I would for sure go with the Freestyle. You would soon smash the Artiste into nothing I think. Just make sure you can bend the Freestyles some at least when you try to flex your ankles in them. It's a matter of both strength and body weight. Since you did roller, I think your ankles will be stronger than the average person.

Before you buy though. Make sure you are sized well in it, since skates are supposed to fit very snugly, but still should not hurt your feet. This means sometimes moving to a different brand if your arches or ankles are not happy, or your feet don't seem secure. Also, make sure the shop has a size range for you to try on; sometimes one needs a half size smaller or larger but they don't have it.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Don't even consider Artiste, way too soft for you.

Debut is the lowest you should be in with your stats (height/weight and being an adult male, etc) and it's a few steps up from Freestyle and it's stiffness rating. Debut is 55 rating for men, Freestyle is 49. Honestly, I'd put you in a Premier Fusion if I was the fitter, and if Jackson is really best for your feet.

If you do go with boot only look into JW Coronation Ace or MK Pro blades to go with them (Traditional, NOT REVS).

Good luck!

 

[tstop4me]

Just so the OP is prepared for sticker shock:

Jackson Men's Debut (boots only) $380
Jackson Men's Premiere (boots only) $440
JW Coronation Ace or MK Pro (blades only) $279

 

[tstop4me]

Also, make sure the shop has a size range for you to try on; sometimes one needs a half size smaller or larger but they don't have it.

Don't know about the shops in Canada. But my experience in the US has been that it'll be hard for an adult male to find much stock (for high-end combos or separate boots) to try on. So it'll be critical to find a competent fitter who knows how to take measurements and make tracings properly. If he's lucky, he'll fit the display model.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Just so the OP is prepared for sticker shock:

Jackson Men's Debut (boots only) $380
Jackson Men's Premiere (boots only) $440
JW Coronation Ace or MK Pro (blades only) $279

Figure skating is an expensive sport. They might as well buy the boot they need and will support them properly, then spend way less on something that won't and then have to turn around and buy new better skates again quickly, also adding in the possibility of injury.

 

[tstop4me]

Figure skating is an expensive sport. They might as well buy the boot they need and will support them properly, then spend way less on something that won't and then have to turn around and buy new better skates again quickly, also adding in the possibility of injury.

Agreed. But this is a tricky call that beginners face. On the one hand, poor equipment will likely lead to a bad experience, and discourage the skater from pursuing the sport. On the other hand, the skater could plunk down $719 for the fully proper gear, and then find out skating isn't the sport for him anyway. So a $370 compromise for adequate gear (for a beginner switching out of rentals, and not sure how much he wants to skate) is at least worthy of consideration in this scenario. Depends on what the OP can afford to shell out, and something for him to discuss with his fitter.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Agreed. But this is a tricky call that beginners face. On the one hand, poor equipment will likely lead to a bad experience, and discourage the skater from pursuing the sport. On the other hand, the skater could plunk down $719 for the fully proper gear, and then find out skating isn't the sport for him anyway. So a $370 compromise for adequate gear (for a beginner switching out of rentals, and not sure how much he wants to skate) is at least worthy of consideration in this scenario. Depends on what the OP can afford to shell out, and something for him to discuss with his fitter.

I give my suggestions for what I know best and what they have told me about them and their needs, as well as always taking injury risks into consideration. It's always for them to discuss with a pro fitter and decide what is okay for them and their bank account, while still being properly and safely fit. 659 would be the cost (minus taxes etc) for Mens Adult Debut and an intermediate JW or MK blade. That is a minimal cost at their needs level. We can agree to disagree here but I'd rather not see them spend money on boots that are too soft and get hurt or need better boots(stiffer boots) anyway. Then they're really throwing money out the window. Of course, all can get what boots they want but they do need to know they are going into that risking injury, etc.

 

[canskater]

Hey all! Looking for advice on what makes more sense for my first pair of skates

I'm (male, 140lb) planning to get them fitted from a pro shop and the options available for men come down to Jackson Artiste or Jackson Freestyle. Cost is ~230 vs ~370.

My background has just been public skating on rentals - I can do crossovers and some backwards (prob from my rollerskating experience).

My main goal is just to take advantage of the multiple free/inexpensive winter rinks available in NYC in the winter seasons. So immediate term will probably skate a lot the next two months just self learning/from friends. After that, before winter rolls around again will probably go occasionally to the rink/consider lessons depending how much I'm into it.

Being such a beginner it seems like Artiste makes more sense/is generally recommended.

However I wonder if there's merit (if I'm willing to invest the extra upfront cost) to get the Freestyles to have a better blade/boot already for the next few years and one that is supposed to be able to handle jumps if I get into that in the future? The fitter said Artiste's can't handle jumps (could break?) though a bit confused since officially the Jackson website says Artiste can support up to ISI FS2 (https://jacksonultima.com/blogs/news/jackson-ultima-support-rating-system) which seems to include things like waltz jumps/bunny hop/half lutz.

Really hard for me to know how far I'll get into this or if/how many classes I'll take, just don't want to start skating and not long after (or like even a year later) feel like my skates aren't quite as 'advanced' as should be to support what I'm trying.

Outside of support for jumps (like if I don't end up going beyond very basic jumps) is there still much value for the Freestyles over Artiste? Also want to double check if any gotchas that might make one or the other harder for a beginner to start learning on.

Clearly I'm a noob! Thanks for any and all the advice!

Hi, I've skated with both the Artist and Freestyle (I'm an adult, 120lb) and can tell you both will not provide the support for your weight and abilities. The Artist is way too soft for simple edges (for an adult at least). The Freestyle was better and I was more comfortable leaning into the edges but after 10 hours of practice I could tell they would not last long. You have some rollerskate/blade experience and can already do crossovers so I think the Freestyles will loose their support quickly. I agree with @Ic3Rabbit that a stiffer boot would serve you better. Please see an experienced fitter and try on the boot where possible. Despite the Freestyle having more support I could not skate well in them because of the higher heel height, and the balls of my feel were very sore despite shifting my weight back (my adult feet hate heels). NOTE: I did not skate 10 hours straight in Freestyles, i did it over a 2 week period and normally skate more than that in my Jackson Soft-skates. I have a fitter who is a very kind man who took the Freestyles back and I got a full re-fund (this is nearly unheard of). I now still skate in my Jackson ultima Soft-skate and despite them being recreational and low support for some reason they feel super stiff and holding well with crossovers (for now - they have about 150 hours of practice in them so far). You may need a different brand skate if the Freestyle's heel height (or fit) is also an issue for you. Good luck!

 

[thisismynewsport]

Yes there are major differences to the Artiste and Freestyle. The Freestyle is built on the elite last and has fusion soles.

I am lighter than you and I started out on the Artistes. I wasn’t even suppose to do basic jumps in them because of the inadequate support the boot offers. Not only that the stock blade sucks on that boot.

I upgraded to Premieres and Matrix Legacy blades after 2 months of skating. So what I’m really trying to say is invest in the correct boot now and it will save you money in the long run.

 

[icethyme]

This is a random stream of consciousness thought I shouldn't have posted, but I don't want to dirty delete.

I've noticed that you tend to advise adult beginners to get higher rated separate boots and blades. I wonder how well that works, because the fitters I have access to are very very reluctant to go past Freestyle level for anyone not already doing singles.

Don't even consider Artiste, way too soft for you.

Debut is the lowest you should be in with your stats (height/weight and being an adult male, etc) and it's a few steps up from Freestyle and it's stiffness rating. Debut is 55 rating for men, Freestyle is 49. Honestly, I'd put you in a Premier Fusion if I was the fitter, and if Jackson is really best for your feet.

If you do go with boot only look into JW Coronation Ace or MK Pro blades to go with them (Traditional, NOT REVS).

Good luck!

 

[thisismynewsport]

I'm always bemused when you offer this advice. Both the "local" and "regional" fitters I have access to have made it very clear they won't sell me (and the other adult also being fitted) anything higher rated then Freestyles until I'm comfortably landing singles. This including upgrading blades. I'm in LTS 4 so that might be awhile. LOL Maybe if I really pitched a fit, but since I need the fitter for sharpenings, etc., long term, I don't want to become "that" customer.

There are a lot of other factors that change what boots you should be fitted for I.e quality of your edges and ankle strength. I got fitted for a Premiere as a beginner because I have experience rollerskating and inlining (street and bowl skating). I had no problems breaking in my boots and I still haven’t landed all my singles. The more you communicate to your fitter the better they can help finding you the correct skates.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

This is a random stream of consciousness thought I shouldn't have posted, but I don't want to dirty delete.

I've noticed that you tend to advise adult beginners to get higher rated separate boots and blades. I wonder how well that works, because the fitters I have access to are very very reluctant to go past Freestyle level for anyone not already doing singles.

Well.
I'm a pro and know what I'm doing, also never any complaints.

 

[Minz]

Boots and blades are all dependent on the person and their needs. There are a million different factors that can affect a person's needs and sometimes those needs are going to be more specialized than other times.

I remember my first-ever pair of skates, a pair of velcro Jackson's, that were purchased solely for the purpose of not wanting to have to tie skates every single time I went onto the ice (and probably because I was renting skates every single time, which was probably not the most cost-effective in the long run). Mind you, I was about 4 years old, skating weekly at Wollman Rink in NYC, outdoors, on Snowplow Sam. There was no heat molding or anything. The only concern was that the probably ridiculously overpriced rink shop did not have the skates in pink like most of the other 4-year-old girls wanted. They only had black, but I didn't mind, I never really cared much for pink, and besides, I was just excited that I had my own pair of skates. Looking back, this maybe was not the best way to do it, but the point is that these skates served their purpose. They did what they needed to do at the time.

Later on in my life, that process would of course change, but the end result is the same: get a pair of skates that will do what you need them to do, safely and effectively. But, it really does depend, and it's not a one size fits all.

This forum has some lovely people who can, at the very least, help point you in the right direction, which is definitely better than walking into a store and having no idea what you want and then ending up with something completely wrong.