Jackson's Fit Well But Not Enough Ankle Padding

[Sunshine247]

I offered you help with risport, but you skipped over it? I'm here if you need it.

Nope, I’m preparing a DM and got distracted trying to get some more feedback from my skater. I came back to finish it up because it is much more complicated with different info. I was specifically hoping you’d be able to help. I didn’t even want to leave a “check your DM” until I had it ready to send.

 

[Sibelius]

Oh no, I’m sorry to hear that. Luckily we’ve had ice since June. It’s been an adjustment with the restrictions but so far so good. We had shut down from March to June so a similar time frame. The stinker was told to take it easy but that meant only an axel the first day. I wasn’t happy but the coach had been preparing them with off ice and she was on the ice with the coach. She at least waited till the end of the session and a run through of all other singles. Oh to be young again.....

I really hope DD can try on the risport. The skate dealer has just started carrying them, and she basically works out of her basement. She’s super accommodating and I hope since the edea and the Jackson weren’t quite right, my DD will make a good choice. The edeas switch really was driven by not feeling quite right with the Jackson. We shall see. She’s turning into a teen!

Sounds like mine, including the teen part.

Last year she competed in Sun Valley Idaho in February, we came home (literally 1 week ahead of the first cases popping up in SV) and were shut down 2 weeks later. Got back on in late June and she was working doubles day 1. We got the Summer through November and then shut back down as she was starting 2A. She continues off ice once a week and did a couple of off ice sessions with some national championship coaches (and she was sore for 2 days after!), but we're down for at least another 2 weeks is my guess (hope?). Then it will be "camps" or pods for the foreseeable future. Those are really limiting as far as times, since she can't skate in the afternoons now (until ballet school ends in May). And no 2 a day options either, you get one pod time and that's it. We'll take what we can get though.

Good luck with the Risport's. I'm concerned about the width, since mine is in a semi custom split C/A and the Risports come in C or B widths. I'm really afraid it's full custom Jacksons. They tell me they can put padding anywhere we want in a full custom. Her fitter is less enthusiastic and doesn't think they do as much as they claim.

 

[Sibelius]

I'm the Risport expert around here and everyone will tell you that, as they've thanked me many times for suggesting them and they love them, right @WednesdayMarch and others??

Your daughter sounds like she has the perfect foot for a Risport, feel free to inbox me and I can give you more personalized suggestions for her.

You recommended the Royal Pro's upthread. What can you tell me about the width comparable to a Jackson? As I said, she's in a semi custom C/A that fits well. The standard Jackson R was too small in the ball, but good heel lock, while the W was too big in the heel and she could never lock it tight and got blisters no matter what. I see Risport offers a C or a B, but don't know how that might compare. Pretty sure we'll have to order and try on and pay a restock if it doesn't fit, but in the grand $cheme it's no big deal. It's a bit frustrating to help her with it, she just accepts the lack of padding in her Premieres and the pain it causes as no big deal, "it's just pain". High tolerance for pain that one has. Didn't get it from me for sure.

 

[Sunshine247]

I offered you help with risport, but you skipped over it? I'm here if you need it.

Somehow it didn’t post but I didn’t mean to skip over help, I was preparing a DM since I was way off topic of the thread asking for my own help there.
I sent you a DM in the AM after falling asleep while typing. It’s been some rough days here. lol

OK it did show up....something is weird with the site on my mobile. Sorry.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Somehow it didn’t post but I didn’t mean to skip over help, I was preparing a DM since I was way off topic of the thread asking for my own help there.
I sent you a DM in the AM after falling asleep while typing. It’s been some rough days here. lol

OK it did show up....something is weird with the site on my mobile. Sorry.

It's ok. I'll send you a DM Back as soon as I can. I'm a little behind with requests all coming at once, so I'm catching up lol.

@Sibelius I'll reply asap.

 

[Sunshine247]

Sounds like mine, including the teen part.

Last year she competed in Sun Valley Idaho in February, we came home (literally 1 week ahead of the first cases popping up in SV) and were shut down 2 weeks later. Got back on in late June and she was working doubles day 1. We got the Summer through November and then shut back down as she was starting 2A. She continues off ice once a week and did a couple of off ice sessions with some national championship coaches (and she was sore for 2 days after!), but we're down for at least another 2 weeks is my guess (hope?). Then it will be "camps" or pods for the foreseeable future. Those are really limiting as far as times, since she can't skate in the afternoons now (until ballet school ends in May). And no 2 a day options either, you get one pod time and that's it. We'll take what we can get though.

Good luck with the Risport's. I'm concerned about the width, since mine is in a semi custom split C/A and the Risports come in C or B widths. I'm really afraid it's full custom Jacksons. They tell me they can put padding anywhere we want in a full custom. Her fitter is less enthusiastic and doesn't think they do as much as they claim.

What are the pods? Are they keeping certain skaters together as a pod to minimize exposure? That naturally happens at our rink with coaching times being scheduled similarly, but that sounds like a good idea. We’ve only had one “camp experience “ so far but it was similar to yours. A great workout. lol

Our rink hasn’t had to shut down more than the original March to June timeframe luckily. They even operated at a loss at first just to serve the skate community and they are privately owned. We are so lucky! The state and local mandates allowed them to put a plan in place and work through staying open and so far we haven’t had any real problems. Some individual cases, but they were almost certainly exposed outside the rink and it didn’t spread. We’re not out of the woods yet but it’s looking better and better for our area. our club is even planning our competition for June and hoping for the best.

I’ll definitely be interested in your feedback on the next skates. I’m not as familiar with the upper level Jackson’s but hopefully the features your skater needs are there. I worked with one of the Jackson skate tech reps and he was able to really come up with solutions to some fit issues DD was having when she moved into her Debut fusions. It must be a nail biting experience to order and wait for them! Really hope it works for your skater!

I did do some digging on Risport and found some information, trying to appeal to a teen on her level. There are crystals. lol. She isn’t quite ready to think about new skates yet so I have time to warm her up to the idea. She’ll listen to the skate tech (and me to an extent) and at least try them on. So far the Risport seems like a hybrid between the Edea and the Jackson’s so I’m hopeful. I like the full heat moldable feature and the better wrap of the sides around the ankle and foot. I read they’re built on the Edea last, or a last copied on Edea, so the basics fit should be similar enough. They just won’t rely as heavily on the tongue for it’s integrity. I have no idea if her Edea are broken down yet and that drives me nuts! The Edeas seem heavily padded and that might have broken down to the point she is moving slightly in her boot. it looks like she’s falling to her inside edge more these days which is what was happening when she had boots slightly too large. I’m going to haveto wait for her feedback on that since she says they’re good for now.

 

[Sibelius]

What are the pods? Are they keeping certain skaters together as a pod to minimize exposure? That naturally happens at our rink with coaching times being scheduled similarly, but that sounds like a good idea. We’ve only had one “camp experience “ so far but it was similar to yours. A great workout. lol

Our rink hasn’t had to shut down more than the original March to June timeframe luckily. They even operated at a loss at first just to serve the skate community and they are privately owned. We are so lucky! The state and local mandates allowed them to put a plan in place and work through staying open and so far we haven’t had any real problems. Some individual cases, but they were almost certainly exposed outside the rink and it didn’t spread. We’re not out of the woods yet but it’s looking better and better for our area. our club is even planning our competition for June and hoping for the best.

I’ll definitely be interested in your feedback on the next skates. I’m not as familiar with the upper level Jackson’s but hopefully the features your skater needs are there. I worked with one of the Jackson skate tech reps and he was able to really come up with solutions to some fit issues DD was having when she moved into her Debut fusions. It must be a nail biting experience to order and wait for them! Really hope it works for your skater!

I did do some digging on Risport and found some information, trying to appeal to a teen on her level. There are crystals. lol. She isn’t quite ready to think about new skates yet so I have time to warm her up to the idea. She’ll listen to the skate tech (and me to an extent) and at least try them on. So far the Risport seems like a hybrid between the Edea and the Jackson’s so I’m hopeful. I like the full heat moldable feature and the better wrap of the sides around the ankle and foot. I read they’re built on the Edea last, or a last copied on Edea, so the basics fit should be similar enough. They just won’t rely as heavily on the tongue for it’s integrity. I have no idea if her Edea are broken down yet and that drives me nuts! The Edeas seem heavily padded and that might have broken down to the point she is moving slightly in her boot. it looks like she’s falling to her inside edge more these days which is what was happening when she had boots slightly too large. I’m going to haveto wait for her feedback on that since she says they’re good for now.

Yes, pods are groups of skaters that skate together on the same session. We had, I think up to 16 skaters and 4 coaches in a pod. Three weeks at a time, then you could move to a different pod, but that was rarely done. I'm sure that's what they'll go back to when we reopen. There's another rink about 40 minutes away that was running regular FS sessions up until everything was shut down in November. We took advantage of those and I kept the subscription to the car wifi so she could start school in the back seat on the way home!

Buying skates always feels like a @#@& shoot. We're very lucky that she's fit by a former custom boot manufacturer who now runs a pro shop. He's got his opinions (won't touch Edea's with a 10 foot pole) but decades of experience is worth a lot. He thinks the Debut was plenty stiff enough for her, so we had a bit of a tussle over getting her in the Premiere, which isn't that much stiffer than the Debut according to her, she had no break in issues at all.

I did get some feedback from another tech who deals with both Jackson and Risport and he says the fit of the Risport (at least those available in North America) for those with narrow ankles is not nearly as well as with a Jackson. It's more of a medium fit and not as snug as necessary. He says all his skaters with narrow ankles are in Jacksons, so that may be it-- on to customs. We'll see what the others I've reached out to say and what ICE3 has to say.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Okay, first of all. Risport is in no way a hybrid between an Edea and a Jackson, so let's forget about that right off.

Secondly, I wear both jackson and risport. I've competed in both Jackson and Risport for singles(freestyle) and then Risport for dance. (I had narrow ankles when competing btw @Sibelius and had no problems in Risport, it's all in the boot and the fit and the molding they can do.

I'm going to try to answer both @Sibelius and @Sunshine247 here (and then I'll also PM you Sunshine).

I have a foot very similar to Sunshines skater. Risport would be good for her for that reason.

@Sibelius, as far as your daughter, yes I suggested Royal Pro for her upthread and stand by that, even though Risport has recently changed up their lineup. Your daughter could also get away with RF3 as it like the Royal Pro will take her through her doubles and into triples. They will each fit a bit different and it's going to be up to her to decide which is best for her. One of those should give her the padding and the lock she needs. I have a foot that is wider in front, more narrow heel, so she should be fine. Anything else, let me know.

 

[Sibelius]

Okay, first of all. Risport is in no way a hybrid between an Edea and a Jackson, so let's forget about that right off.

Secondly, I wear both jackson and risport. I've competed in both Jackson and Risport for singles(freestyle) and then Risport for dance. (I had narrow ankles when competing btw @Sibelius and had no problems in Risport, it's all in the boot and the fit and the molding they can do.

I'm going to try to answer both @Sibelius and @Sunshine247 here (and then I'll also PM you Sunshine).

I have a foot very similar to Sunshines skater. Risport would be good for her for that reason.

@Sibelius, as far as your daughter, yes I suggested Royal Pro for her upthread and stand by that, even though Risport has recently changed up their lineup. Your daughter could also get away with RF3 as it like the Royal Pro will take her through her doubles and into triples. They will each fit a bit different and it's going to be up to her to decide which is best for her. One of those should give her the padding and the lock she needs. I have a foot that is wider in front, more narrow heel, so she should be fine. Anything else, let me know.

Thanks. I think before we spring for custom Jacksons we'll at least pay the freight to try on a pair or two. A couple of hundred dollars for a return/restock fee at this point is not much. I could be wrong, but I'm really thinking that this may be the right time to get her into a new boot since she's been off for so long. She'd get used to being back and a new boot at the same time and get it all over with at once instead of getting solid again, then changing boots and having to work to get it all back once more.

Thanks again and everyone take care out there!

 

[Sunshine247]

@Sibelius, your rink has a good plan with the pods. The skaters schedules end up creating the same effect so a more formal pod arrangement would be super helpful. The opportunity to skate at all is such a privilege and a necessity for us. My two would be absolutely insane by now otherwise. My older skater is in her senior year and has missed a lot. She was already sad to think she might be in her “last pair of skates”. She’ll try to continue but she will probably prioritize school like my oldest DD did. We have a mobile hotspot that’s come in very handy as well! For next year we chose completely online school. Never thought we’d be here. Same with all this angst over equipment. I agree about fitting boots. Lol. The stakes get even higher each time. I remember those simple LTS days when I thought it was crazy to pay more than a few hundred for a whole set up.

@Ic3Rabbit, I guess I was thinking the fit of Risport was a hybrid more than the skate construction. I find the overall heat molding in a skate more ideal than the process Edea promoted of only spot molding. And the website claims the last is an Edea last? So a well fitted boot that’s light and heat molded to the entire foot seems like a win. To me.

I’m starting to think the disadvantage to the Edea boots is the over booting. My DD is agressive in her skates and could get a good bend in the upper level boots even in Jackson before she should have been ready for them. We kept to the recommendations for skill level and weight there but she went to an Overture in Edea. Which might even have been a bit too much boot at the time. The problem is the variation between the different boots that feel very different to skaters so they don’t have the same feel at every level, causing some to skip a level of stiffness. IDK. I feel like I’ve seen a step back in her ankle strength and stability after skating in the edeas for about 9 mo now. I don’t know for a fact but I imagine it’s not good for skater development to be in some of the Edeas. But it may also be the boot breaking down at this point. I can see why your fitter won’t touch them. So hard to manage the right boot for the right skater. I’ll call it a shot in the dark. lol. And I think they get it a bit backwards. Sparkles need to be on lower level skates. So skaters won’t be tempted to overboot instead of earning their sparkle. lol

 

[Sibelius]

@Sibelius, your rink has a good plan with the pods. The skaters schedules end up creating the same effect so a more formal pod arrangement would be super helpful. The opportunity to skate at all is such a privilege and a necessity for us. My two would be absolutely insane by now otherwise. My older skater is in her senior year and has missed a lot. She was already sad to think she might be in her “last pair of skates”. She’ll try to continue but she will probably prioritize school like my oldest DD did. We have a mobile hotspot that’s come in very handy as well! For next year we chose completely online school. Never thought we’d be here. Same with all this angst over equipment. I agree about fitting boots. Lol. The stakes get even higher each time. I remember those simple LTS days when I thought it was crazy to pay more than a few hundred for a whole set up.

@Ic3Rabbit, I guess I was thinking the fit of Risport was a hybrid more than the skate construction. I find the overall heat molding in a skate more ideal than the process Edea promoted of only spot molding. And the website claims the last is an Edea last? So a well fitted boot that’s light and heat molded to the entire foot seems like a win. To me.

I’m starting to think the disadvantage to the Edea boots is the over booting. My DD is agressive in her skates and could get a good bend in the upper level boots even in Jackson before she should have been ready for them. We kept to the recommendations for skill level and weight there but she went to an Overture in Edea. Which might even have been a bit too much boot at the time. The problem is the variation between the different boots that feel very different to skaters so they don’t have the same feel at every level, causing some to skip a level of stiffness. IDK. I feel like I’ve seen a step back in her ankle strength and stability after skating in the edeas for about 9 mo now. I don’t know for a fact but I imagine it’s not good for skater development to be in some of the Edeas. But it may also be the boot breaking down at this point. I can see why your fitter won’t touch them. So hard to manage the right boot for the right skater. I’ll call it a shot in the dark. lol. And I think they get it a bit backwards. Sparkles need to be on lower level skates. So skaters won’t be tempted to overboot instead of earning their sparkle. lol

The only problem with the pods is that it limits time. The first ones they did were 2 hour blocks (which was last Summer, so it was fine) but then they only offered 1 hour, so not really enough time. And they limit it to once per day, so again not enough real training time. We'll take what we get though.

My skater and her sister were in online school from March last year until December of this school year. They attend a very small private school that did an incredible job of preparing for online, and later in person. We kept them home at the start of the school year since I'm very high risk for not surviving this virus should I catch it. They did pretty well for the latter part of last school year, but this year was a disaster for them. Both suffered serious mental health issues. So serious that we needed to get counseling for younger one. Unfortunately so many are suffering that the wait lists are months long. Because of that we decided to risk sending them back in person after the holiday break. They are both doing so much better it's like night and day. I'm terrified every day, but their school test more or less weekly, and so far out of I think 1500 tests since January, there have been 3 positive cases. I won't be comfortable until I get the vaccine, so I hope I can hang on that long. I always thought online school would be ideal for my skater, and I asked if when the rinks open she wanted to go back online. I was met with a firm no. Even the 3 days per week in person their school offers was a no. Good luck with online school, it's not all it's cracked up to be, at least for middle schoolers.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

@Sibelius, your rink has a good plan with the pods. The skaters schedules end up creating the same effect so a more formal pod arrangement would be super helpful. The opportunity to skate at all is such a privilege and a necessity for us. My two would be absolutely insane by now otherwise. My older skater is in her senior year and has missed a lot. She was already sad to think she might be in her “last pair of skates”. She’ll try to continue but she will probably prioritize school like my oldest DD did. We have a mobile hotspot that’s come in very handy as well! For next year we chose completely online school. Never thought we’d be here. Same with all this angst over equipment. I agree about fitting boots. Lol. The stakes get even higher each time. I remember those simple LTS days when I thought it was crazy to pay more than a few hundred for a whole set up.

@Ic3Rabbit, I guess I was thinking the fit of Risport was a hybrid more than the skate construction. I find the overall heat molding in a skate more ideal than the process Edea promoted of only spot molding. And the website claims the last is an Edea last? So a well fitted boot that’s light and heat molded to the entire foot seems like a win. To me.

I’m starting to think the disadvantage to the Edea boots is the over booting. My DD is agressive in her skates and could get a good bend in the upper level boots even in Jackson before she should have been ready for them. We kept to the recommendations for skill level and weight there but she went to an Overture in Edea. Which might even have been a bit too much boot at the time. The problem is the variation between the different boots that feel very different to skaters so they don’t have the same feel at every level, causing some to skip a level of stiffness. IDK. I feel like I’ve seen a step back in her ankle strength and stability after skating in the edeas for about 9 mo now. I don’t know for a fact but I imagine it’s not good for skater development to be in some of the Edeas. But it may also be the boot breaking down at this point. I can see why your fitter won’t touch them. So hard to manage the right boot for the right skater. I’ll call it a shot in the dark. lol. And I think they get it a bit backwards. Sparkles need to be on lower level skates. So skaters won’t be tempted to overboot instead of earning their sparkle. lol

If your daughter is so rough on her boots (she has to lace them right and up), then you might want to look at Royal Pro for her, not the RF3.

 

[Sunshine247]

@Sibelius wow! I hope you do stay safe. We chose the virtual option from our public school district. My husband was deployed to Afghanistan right before shut down and with no family in the area, I ended up a single parent in essence. Luckily I wasn’t as much in peril as yourself, but it seemed better to not attend in person, public school in person!

I completely get the mental aspect! I guess we did end up with a bit more social connection with our rinks not being shut down as much. At least for us, the online option ended up better than in person since there was a lot of uncertainty and back and forth With schools here.

My youngest is the one that wants to continue with online school. She’s super motivated and very rigid with her schedule so she’s done well. She’s teaching herself Korean right now if that tells you anything. lol. But that is probably part of her OCD,(that’s not an expression here) if she’s in charge she feels better. My oldest is a senior and wanted to finish up in “her school”. It was harder on her. She missed her friends but she had some contact “safely“ when we could. She skates as well so also has rink friends. Honestly rink family!

@Ic3Rabbit, I found a group of Risport skaters! They were all hiding at another rink. lol. A nearby shop just started offering them. Lots of Edea skaters have recently switched apparently. But OMG, one mom had her skater (just learning beginner doubles like double sal, just past axel) in the Elite boot with JW Gold Seals. I was biting my tongue......I guess some shops will sell to a parent who is adamant about spending the $? I might not go there and just trust our Edea person who never pushes overbooting. She’s very reluctant to put skaters past where they should be. Even despite Edea claims.

 

[Sunshine247]

If your daughter is so rough on her boots (she has to lace them right and up), then you might want to look at Royal Pro for her, not the RF3.

Gotcha! I’ll definitely keep that in mind. Hopefully with the lower ankle she won’t feel the need. I asked the Edea fitter to look at her lacing and she said it actually looks good. In her current skates. It was definitely not when she was in Jackson’s.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

@Ic3Rabbit, I found a group of Risport skaters! They were all hiding at another rink. lol. A nearby shop just started offering them. Lots of Edea skaters have recently switched apparently. But OMG, one mom had her skater (just learning beginner doubles like double sal, just past axel) in the Elite boot with JW Gold Seals. I was biting my tongue......I guess some shops will sell to a parent who is adamant about spending the $? I might not go there and just trust our Edea person who never pushes overbooting. She’s very reluctant to put skaters past where they should be. Even despite Edea claims.

That skater may have needed to be in the Elite for a reason, and I would have honestly put them in the better blades as well, even though Royal is their level. But who knows.

 

[Sunshine247]

That skater may have needed to be in the Elite for a reason, and I would have honestly put them in the better blades as well, even though Royal is their level. But who knows.

Very true. can’t be too judgmental as I pointed out somewhere else myself. lol. But it made me a bit wary. The mom seemed to be very proud of the exspensive skates. I was holding my older DDs iceflys’s and that seems to be a trigger for some people. lol DD does need those. and I wasnt happy to have to,pay for them! But she’s 17 and doing some advanced doubles too. So proud of her not getting discouraged by the little kids who started at 4.

 

[gliese]

Very true. can’t be too judgmental as I pointed out somewhere else myself. lol. But it made me a bit wary. The mom seemed to be very proud of the exspensive skates. I was holding my older DDs iceflys’s and that seems to be a trigger for some people. lol DD does need those. and I wasnt happy to have to,pay for them! But she’s 17 and doing some advanced doubles too. So proud of her not getting discouraged by the little kids who started at 4.

God people are so much more over judgmental about Edea overbooting. I prefer stiffer boots so when I landed my first triple and needed new skates, I switched to a Piano and I'll tell you, the amount of people mad at me for "overbooting" or "doing it for the sparkles" made me want to scream. I'm back in Ice Fly due to a break from skating from an injury and losing jumps, but I'll probably switch back once I get my triples because I liked that boot, it was a good boot.

 

[Minz]

Our fitter will have nothing to do with Edea, admittedly to their detriment, but they are so far away from the boots they used to build that they can't do it. Risport may be a possibility. I always assumed she'd just go to the Elite next, now it's in question, fitter says she could do another Premiere, but they've ruined it with the plastic "Duraguard" film and she says, nope. They have a new model, the 5300, but I don't know how much has changed from the 5200. She's doing better pain wise now that we've been forced to dial back a bit.

Is Edea one of those brands that’s difficult to work with or something? I’ve heard of people not liking to work with Edea before.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Very true. can’t be too judgmental as I pointed out somewhere else myself. lol. But it made me a bit wary. The mom seemed to be very proud of the exspensive skates. I was holding my older DDs iceflys’s and that seems to be a trigger for some people. lol DD does need those. and I wasnt happy to have to,pay for them! But she’s 17 and doing some advanced doubles too. So proud of her not getting discouraged by the little kids who started at 4.

I get what you are saying and I'm glad you are proud of your daughter and good for her! But please don't diss the people who started skating at 4 or a very young age, I started at 2-3 years old, and we aren't bad people just because our parents took us ice skating and we fell in love with it at that age.

 

[Minz]

I get what you are saying and I'm glad you are proud of your daughter and good for her! But please don't diss the people who started skating at 4 or a very young age, I started at 2-3 years old, and we aren't bad people just because our parents took us ice skating and we fell in love with it at that age.

Yep. When I was a kid, 3-4, my parents signed me up for lessons as Wollman Rink in NYC. I still remember getting my Snowplow Sam badges