Janet Lynn: A Measured Fall from Freedom

[Sharon Whitlock]

Possibly in the past. Now I see her feeling the music and telling a story. Her story. I could watch her US Nationals comeback performance over and over. And I do! There was far too much pressure put on her by US Fed and by coaches who berated her about her weight. Now she’s skating for herself and I’m there for it. And she STILL draws people in. I’ve never seen a SRO regionals before hers. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a full standing ovation for a 12th place Nationals finisher before her.

I'm thinking that, along with her good programs, another big reason people were giving Gracie Gold a standing ovation was because of her brave and very public struggle against depression and eating disorders. She is an inspiration for going public with these and sharing her successes and her failures with so many people. I admire her and am encouraged by her willingness to share her struggles with the rest of us and open herself up to the world. She is helping others, not just figure skaters, by being seen on and off the ice.

It takes a lot of courage for an Olympian to return to competition knowing that she will probably never return to the podium again. To me, Gracie's continued involvement with the sport shows a true love of the sport--and that's what I think is missing these days from the sport of figure skating. We just don't see that love of the sport...and as we used to say and sing back in the 1970s--what the world needs now is LOVE, sweet LOVE.

I wish more of the older skaters, the former medalists, who are still young and fit enough, would return to competition. Both Brian Boitano and Katarina Witt returned to the Olympics in Lillehammer--and they had some difficulties and didn't come near the podium. But to this day, Witt's "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" is one of my favorite programs ever.

When you meet Janet Lynn, she will tell you that she still "feels" a skating program in her head whenever she hears a piece of music. She has never stopped skating--we just don't see her programs now. They're all in her head and heart.

And I would suggest that those of you who disagree with her "politics" try to meet Janet Lynn if you have the opportunity (it's pretty rare). One of the best things we can do as human beings is listen and learn from those we disagree with. That's the main reason I started reading and posting on Golden Skate Forums again after a year or so of absence. I need the "challenge" and opposition to my views and opinions! It makes me a more well-rounded and informed person and it helps me have respect and love for others who are not part of my little world!

 

[LiamForeman]

I'm not interested in Janet Lynn's politics. I was annoyed at Rudy Galindo when he was outspoken about his marks from her. I thought that was really weak on Rudy's part. Just skate and if she's being a bigot, everyone will notice anyway. Janet has seemed at times to be a lost soul. Even though she was one of the first ladies to attempt triples in competition, after she retired she'd decry all about the triple jump 'gymnastics'. Like the triples that she herself was attempting (I think her fail rate was 100% in competition). Then it was the "artistry is gone" after Witt's CARMEN and Janet said it's only about jumps and her athletic legs and mugging to the audience. Janet is a walking and preaching contradiction. Just let her be and live in her own world. She doesn't care to venture out of it, so I just ignore her.

 

[Mauvedreamer]

I consider Carolina to be one of the best artists on ice ever, but for some reason I never really liked her Bolero. I prefer Kamila's version (and I'm not taking into account Kamila's beauiful 4Ts here).

I consider Carolina to be one of the most dullest skaters on ice.Found she had that same blank expression !! Yes she was elegant , I found her quite bland with her Inane grin on her face!! Not for me. .. Next skater please I would think whilst watching her!! .. Kamila I absolutely love ,her speed ,her attack , her angular movements ,I think by the Olympics if she goes she will have perfected it and grown with it... brave piece to choose but I think it will be fantastic. Bolero is open to different interpretations.. some people enjoy some and not others. Fair enough. Didn't much care for her Bolero either!! Her jumps were the only part I actually enjoyed strangely enough in her skating!! If all skaters had the same style it would be a boring world indeed as would be if everyone shared the same opinions!!

 

[el henry]

I consider Carolina to be one of the most dullest skaters on ice.Found she had that same blank expression !! Yes she was elegant , I found her quite bland with her Inane grin on her face!! Not for me. .. Next skater please I would think whilst watching her!! .. Kamila I absolutely love ,her speed ,her attack , her angular movements ,I think by the Olympics if she goes she will have perfected it and grown with it... brave piece to choose but I think it will be fantastic. Bolero is open to different interpretations.. some people enjoy some and not others. Fair enough. Didn't much care for her Bolero either!! Her jumps were the only part I actually enjoyed strangely enough in her skating!! If all skaters had the same style it would be a boring world indeed as would be if everyone shared the same opinions!!

It would be a boring world indeed if we all shared the same opinions

As I said earlier, I find racing around the ice just for the sake of racing around the ice to be dreadfully dull. Yawn, what's the point. But other people love it. And there should be skaters for the people who love it and there should be skaters for the people who don't.

I don't think it's fair to call a smile "inane", however. You may not enjoy it, but others may And I say that as someone who doesn't follow the women and is no particular fan of Carolina or of Kamila or any other woman. Unless they're friends of Jason's.

Of course, that's the whole skating world

 

[wakuwaku]

To me, Gracie's continued involvement with the sport shows a true love of the sport--and that's what I think is missing these days from the sport of figure skating. We just don't see that love of the sport...and as we used to say and sing back in the 1970s--what the world needs now is LOVE, sweet LOVE.

Anna Shscherbakova's winning free program at RusNat 2021 with her deteriorating health condition after short, where she couldn't even breath properly - when coaches and parents tried many times to dissuade her from skating this day, after two brilliant performances of her two main rivals getting huge scores, with insane pressure on her.. If that feat wasn't LOVE for skating - what is love then?

I need the "challenge" and opposition to my views and opinions!

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/t...d-fall-from-freedom.88608/page-6#post-2769100
Why you didn't answer me then? Probably missed my post. Oh, well.

 

[Mauvedreamer]

It would be a boring world indeed if we all shared the same opinions

As I said earlier, I find racing around the ice just for the sake of racing around the ice to be dreadfully dull. Yawn, what's the point. But other people love it. And there should be skaters for the people who love it and there should be skaters for the people who don't.

I don't think it's fair to call a smile "inane", however. You may not enjoy it, but others may And I say that as someone who doesn't follow the women and is no particular fan of Carolina or of Kamila or any other woman. Unless they're friends of Jason's.

Of course, that's the whole skating world

Perhaps a bit harsh ! no it wasn't an insult, just a description of how I saw her facial expression! Well god forbid anyone dares to critique Jason , they will have your wrath !! I jest ..I got to admit I find the world of figure skating fandom quite worrying sometimes ..

 

[el henry]

Perhaps a bit harsh ! no it wasn't an insult, just a description of how I saw her facial expression! Well god forbid anyone dares to critique Jason , they will have your wrath !! I jest ..I got to admit I find the world of figure skating fandom quite worrying sometimes ..

Oh I hope I don't make anyone scared to critique Jason, or anyone else for that matter. Like you said, we all like different aspects of skating, or we'd all be robots. I will leap into action if I think the criticism is unfair: for example, that what Jason does isn't difficult, or that it isn't athletic, or that if I prefer Jason's type of skating, I should just give up and watch shows. Then I bring out the old lady cyber cane

But if someone says, well, I really prefer jumps, they're exciting and fun and make my heart go faster, and Jason doesn't jump quads, well what can I say? Then I put the old lady cyber cane away

 

[Mauvedreamer]

Oh I hope I don't make anyone scared to critique Jason, or anyone else for that matter. Like you said, we all like different aspects of skating, or we'd all be robots. I will leap into action if I think the criticism is unfair: for example, that what Jason does isn't difficult, or that it isn't athletic, or that if I prefer Jason's type of skating, I should just give up and watch shows. Then I bring out the old lady cyber cane

But if someone says, well, I really prefer jumps, they're exciting and fun and make my heart go faster, and Jason doesn't jump quads, well what can I say? Then I put the old lady cyber cane away

No of course you don't!! You're his biggest fan nowt wrong with that. I happen to love his skating too. Also was so proud when he landed his quad too. He is a dynamic and exciting skater to watch. Obviously it would be lovely to see him land a quad or two just for his own personal satisfaction. In no way does it make him a lesser skater .and that argument you should go and watch shows!! That's just baloney! Not even an argument! It's like saying if you don't like jumps go watch ice dance !! Both are entirely stupid!! Just knee jerk reactions not well thought out objective arguments!! Old lady cyber cane !

 

[Sharon Whitlock]

After whole olympic cycle of quads revolution started by Trusova we have yet to witness any women or girl quadsters serious injury or career's ending. Which can't be said about only a triple jumpers, by the way. Just a reminder.

We don't see injuries in the "elite" level of figure skating, those who have "made it" to the Senior level AND are seen on television broadcasts.

But we see plenty of injuries at the lower levels of figure skating, even down to the Preliminary, Pre-Juvie, and Juvenile levels, where pre-pubescent girls are working on doubles (Prelims), double axels and their first triples. They just don't have the strength and flexibility due to inadequate training, and dare I say, "inadequate" coaching. Several years ago, U.S. Figure Skating attempted to limit the jumps that Juvies can do in competition, but I'm not sure if that stuck or not.

I don't think school figures should be "required," but I think a wise coach would incorporate edge work of some kind into the training of even very young skaters.

As for the Intermediate levels--here's where we see teens start dropping out, often due to nagging injuries and the resulting medical treatments and BILLS. I do think some of these injuries happen because so many of our American young teens are much heavier than girls were 50 years ago, and some of the coaches haven't figure out how to work with girls who weigh, on average, 140 pounds or more. This is far from being "overweight," but it is definitely heavier than "the old days," and coaches, especially older coaches, need to learn more about working with bigger young women. OR...haha...maybe the sport needs to add "weight classes?' like so many other sports! (Kidding!)

 

[moonvine]

I'm thinking that, along with her good programs, another big reason people were giving Gracie Gold a standing ovation was because of her brave and very public struggle against depression and eating disorders. She is an inspiration for going public with these and sharing her successes and her failures with so many people. I admire her and am encouraged by her willingness to share her struggles with the rest of us and open herself up to the world. She is helping others, not just figure skaters, by being seen on and off the ice.

It takes a lot of courage for an Olympian to return to competition knowing that she will probably never return to the podium again. To me, Gracie's continued involvement with the sport shows a true love of the sport--and that's what I think is missing these days from the sport of figure skating. We just don't see that love of the sport...and as we used to say and sing back in the 1970s--what the world needs now is LOVE, sweet LOVE.

I agree.

I wish more of the older skaters, the former medalists, who are still young and fit enough, would return to competition. Both Brian Boitano and Katarina Witt returned to the Olympics in Lillehammer--and they had some difficulties and didn't come near the podium. But to this day, Witt's "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" is one of my favorite programs ever.

Agree here too. I’m happy to see some of my other judged sports skewing higher and higher in age, particularly on the women’s side.

When you meet Janet Lynn, she will tell you that she still "feels" a skating program in her head whenever she hears a piece of music. She has never stopped skating--we just don't see her programs now. They're all in her head and heart.

And I would suggest that those of you who disagree with her "politics" try to meet Janet Lynn if you have the opportunity (it's pretty rare). One of the best things we can do as human beings is listen and learn from those we disagree with. That's the main reason I started reading and posting on Golden Skate Forums again after a year or so of absence. I need the "challenge" and opposition to my views and opinions! It makes me a more well-rounded and informed person and it helps me have respect and love for others who are not part of my little world!

While I love the fact that through social media we can “know” more about skaters and feel closer to them, sometimes we may learn things that we don’t like. I think Keegan has VERY different political views than I do, but he’s still a lovely person and skater.

(I realize the Janet Lynn/Rudy Galindo didn’t happen over social media, but lacking the long memories of some really smart people here I do not remember it.)

 

[gkelly]

Several years ago, U.S. Figure Skating attempted to limit the jumps that Juvies can do in competition, but I'm not sure if that stuck or not.

About 20 years ago USFS passed a rule forbidding triple jumps at juvenile level (and double axels at levels below juvenile). It's not as though there were many triples attempted in juvenile competition, but occasionally skaters would attempt one or more rarely two. I think the main impetus for that ruling was to discourage sandbagging.

Meanwhile, the number of triples being attempted in intermediate competition continued increasing, especially after the US implemented a bonus system a few years ago for non-downgraded double axels (at juvenile and intermediate levels) and triples (at intermediate and novice) and started allowing first one, then two, and most recently three (via triple-triple combo) in the Intermediate short program. (Juvenile competition does not include SPs.)

So there was a several-triple difference between what the top juveniles were doing (2A only) and what the top intermediates were doing (often multiple triples among the contenders). Intermediate was no longer the place for young skaters first starting to master triples to try them out.

About 2 years ago they decided to allow juveniles to include one triple in their freeskate, and to award the bonus if it's close to rotated.

So probably the number of ambitious would-be elite juveniles attempting one triple is starting to surpass the number who were doing so at the turn of the century before they were forbidden in juvenile.

But that only applies to the top, would-be elite track skaters at juvenile and intermediate. The fields at those levels are large, with wide ranges of ability -- most including double jumps with various levels of quality and consistency, a few at the top attempting double axels and triples, and a few at the bottom who struggle with doubles.

 

[Seven Sisters]

After whole olympic cycle of quads revolution started by Trusova we have yet to witness any women or girl quadsters serious injury or career's ending. Which can't be said about only a triple jumpers, by the way. Just a reminder.

Forgive me, but I can’t let this pass. There are relatively few lady quadsters, and I do remember what happened to the very first lady to land a quad in competition, Elizabet Tursynbaeva, at 2019 Worlds.

She hasn’t been able to compete since. I would certainly consider hers to have been a serious, career-ending injury.

​

 

[flanker]

Forgive me, but I can’t let this pass. There are relatively few lady quadsters, and I do remember what happened to the very first lady to land a quad in competition, Elizabet Tursynbaeva, at 2019 Worlds.

She hasn’t been able to compete since. I would certainly consider hers to have been a serious, career-ending injury.

​

It is obviously necessary to remind again that Lilbet's injury had nothing to do with her landing a quad at worlds. She has a chronic injury from the past. She herself made a statement about it for people who tried to connect it.
-
For the correction: Lilbet is the first senior but not the first lady who landed a quad in a competition.

 

[Mathman]

If you can't get injured doing a sport it's not a real sport. The whole point of elite sport is toi push your body beyond the limits of human endurance.

 

[el henry]

If you can't get injured doing a sport it's not a real sport. The whole point of elite sport is toi push your body beyond the limits of human endurance.

Some people may not recognize sarcasm, you know you are going to get likes on this

ETA: and jumping off and not directed at you, I do not accept the premise that an injury needs to be incurred while landing a quad to be related to training quads. The human body is not separated into components like that.

In any event, there are plenty of men who were injured specifically while jumping quads

 

[mrrice]

I'm not interested in Janet Lynn's politics. I was annoyed at Rudy Galindo when he was outspoken about his marks from her. I thought that was really weak on Rudy's part. Just skate and if she's being a bigot, everyone will notice anyway. Janet has seemed at times to be a lost soul. Even though she was one of the first ladies to attempt triples in competition, after she retired she'd decry all about the triple jump 'gymnastics'. Like the triples that she herself was attempting (I think her fail rate was 100% in competition). Then it was the "artistry is gone" after Witt's CARMEN and Janet said it's only about jumps and her athletic legs and mugging to the audience. Janet is a walking and preaching contradiction. Just let her be and live in her own world. She doesn't care to venture out of it, so I just ignore her.

Here's the thing about Rudy. He has been through the ringer and back in his life. I'm sure there were many judges who didn't care for his skating yet, Janet is the only Judge he's ever spoken against "Publically"

 

[gliese]

A lot of little girls these days don't want to just be pretty princesses to be ogled at. They want to be known as strong and athletic and able to compete with the best of the boys and I think the quad revolution is showing girls that they don't have to be constrained by what society says they can or cannot achieve. Just see how many skaters (yes even "grown women") are now achieving what they were told to be impossible for most girls except the once in a generation talents.

You're very right. I'm a figure skater currently. I was drawn to skating when I was 3 years old because of the pretty dresses with glitter. Thing is, I'm no longer 3. I'm now a teenage who has been objectified by boys every day in the school hallways because of my muscular and "perky" butt and larger than average bust. When I'm at the rink, I don't want to be judged by how pretty I am. Sometimes I want to be intentionally ugly or do moves that once would have been considered a faux pas because that's fun to me. I see myself as an artist and art doesn't have to mean pretty or beautiful.

But we see plenty of injuries at the lower levels of figure skating, even down to the Preliminary, Pre-Juvie, and Juvenile levels, where pre-pubescent girls are working on doubles (Prelims), double axels and their first triples. They just don't have the strength and flexibility due to inadequate training, and dare I say, "inadequate" coaching. Several years ago, U.S. Figure Skating attempted to limit the jumps that Juvies can do in competition, but I'm not sure if that stuck or not.

I don't think school figures should be "required," but I think a wise coach would incorporate edge work of some kind into the training of even very young skaters.

It is inadequate coaching. Inadequate coaching is why I have so many nagging injuries without even jumping (I was a synchro skater for most of my life). I didn't touch workout equipment until I turned 13 which is much too late for a figure skater to be starting strength training. No one ever told me to. In fact, I was told that strength training would make me bulky and unfavorable to judges. A load of BS to anyone who knows anything about strength training, but 13 year old me didn't know that. The problem is that in figure skating, there is a saturation of horrible coaches. The is a saturation of not only coaches who don't actually know anything about figure skating but also coaches who would rather see a student compete through an injury and end a career than skip a competition. There is a saturation of coaches who win encourage dangerous behavior (overtraining, eating disorders, even abuse of OTC medication) and thankfully those are the coaches who get pulled out of the sport in the US.

 

[flanker]

There are plenty of ladies (and men of course) who got injured or even had to stop their career while never training quads. Even ice dancers. Figure skating is no different to any other sport when it comes to risk. It can't be said that a pole vaulter is safe if he jumps just 5.5 m but is prone to injury if he jumps over 6 m. The reality of this world is top athletes throughout the sports get injured, and get injured often, just watch the stories of the athletes at the current olympics ("...managed to qualify despite the injury.." "...returned to sport after recovering from injury..." etc. etc.). We will see figure skaters injured in the future even if we ban quads completely and we will see pole vaulters, tennis and football players, high jumpers, cyclists, gymnasts injured as well as long as there will be sport and as long as there will be physical activity. But those are mostly those people who are in a jeopardy who also want to do that despite the risk (or even because of the risk).

As for Lilbet, she was injured around 2016/17 while being in Toronto, yes, she was occationally trying quads there already. But there's no indication it happened because of that and wouldn't happen if she didn't try it there. Quick jump to "I do remember what happened to the very first lady to land a quad in competition" as if there was a clear, undisputed, proven correlation between Lilbet doing quads-Lilbet injured was a logical fallacy.

 

[wakuwaku]

We don't see injuries in the "elite" level of figure skating, those who have "made it" to the Senior level AND are seen on television broadcasts.

But we see plenty of injuries at the lower levels of figure skating

Well, ok. And? My post was reply to BlissfulSynergy's very widespread in certain circles 'health concern' about young girls injuries presumably connected to training triple axels and quads (exactly girls - boys learning quads many generations already is not what they care about). I always find quite irritating claims that are not based on any factual information - which are made with absolute certainty to boot. Also I could add that training triple axels and quads in older age is even more traumatic because of adult fears and higher body weight. In other words - if there is time when one can learn complex jumps more or less safely and successfully (build neccessary muscles for that, create muscles memory and psychological confidence etc. - the same logic as learning triples, btw) - it's exactly in tender age. With help of able coaches, of course - which, as I see, quite a rarity.
Considering the above - my answer was absolutely logical, don't you think? However you replied with objection that injuries mostly occur long before skaters begin to learn complex jumps. Well, ok - I didn't argue with that at all.

As for the Intermediate levels--here's where we see teens start dropping out, often due to nagging injuries and the resulting medical treatments and BILLS. I do think some of these injuries happen because so many of our American young teens are much heavier than girls were 50 years ago, and some of the coaches haven't figure out how to work with girls who weigh, on average, 140 pounds or more.

It's quite funny to hear - in figurative sense - since health and longevity are widespread arguments which you can hear from the same people, who is advocating idea of delaying start of senior career as much as possible and conservative in general. It seems they in fact very well informed that majority of injuries/career endings have nothing to do with senior career/complex jumps at all.

 

[el henry]

Well, ok. And? My post was reply to BlissfulSynergy's very widespread in certain circles 'health concern' about young girls injuries presumably connected to training triple axels and quads (exactly girls - boys learning quads many generations already is not what they care about). I always find quite irritating claims that are not based on any factual information - which are made with absolute certainty to boot. Also I could add that training triple axels and quads in older age is even more traumatic because of adult fears and higher body weight. In other words - if there is time when one can learn complex jumps more or less safely and successfully (build neccessary muscles for that, create muscles memory and psychological confidence etc. - the same logic as learning triples, btw) - it's exactly in tender age. With help of able coaches, of course - which, as I see, quite a rarity.
Considering the above - my answer was absolutely logical, don't you think? However you replied with objection that injuries mostly occur long before skaters begin to learn complex jumps. Well, ok - I didn't argue with that at all.

It's quite funny to hear - in figurative sense - since health and longevity are widespread arguments which you can hear from the same people, who is advocating idea of delaying start of senior career as much as possible and conservative in general. It seems they in fact very well informed that majority of injuries/career endings have nothing to do with senior career/complex jumps at all.

I'm sorry, but that is just not true about the body weight. I have read that as an excuse for old discredited practices such as public weigh-ins, and ya dee ya dee ya dee about the danger of learning quads if you are two pounds heavier, with absolutely no scientific or medical studies to back that up. So I certainly understand irritation with regard to claims that are not based on actual medical factual information