Jason Brown`s future

[Mrs. P]

Several in this thread have mentioned that Jason's basic skating skills need work. Could you please explain? Edging! Check. Fluidity! Check. Musicality! Check. Transitions! Double check.

I don't think you have to race around the rink like your behind is on fire to exhibit basic skating skills. Some do it with speed, some do it with finesse. Speed and finesse in the same skater - not all that common.

I would like to see the skater of your choice do Jason's program.

As always, apprecite Mrs. P's logic

I do think that Jason's edges could use more work, which is why they're doing the FS they're doing this year. While there's a lot of transitions, he doesn't have the bladework of someone like Patrick Chan. That program is so naked of any sort of bombastic music, you basically have to depend ont eh skating to carry you through, unlike Riverdance or even the dramatic T&I.

Actually, one person who does have speed and finesse is Adelina Sotnikova. She skates fairly fast, but has really good skating skills that create a huge presence in the ice. I think Jason has been able to develop a big presence with his performance and interpretation, but not necessary trough ice coverage/speed/skating bladework.

All that said, seeing him in person compared with other skaters, I don't think he's super slow either.

 

[FlattFan]

He doesn't have deep edge like the top guys. He can't generate speed like the top guys, he doesn't have hard transitions like the top guys. You can compare him to Hanyu and Chan to see how fluid they are and how fast they are compare to him. Jason is a B+ Skating skills skater but everyone thinks he's A+.

 

[Mrs. P]

He doesn't have deep edge like the top guys. He can't generate speed like the top guys, he doesn't have hard transitions like the top guys. You can compare him to Hanyu and Chan to see how fluid they are and how fast they are compare to him. Jason is a B+ Skating skills skater but everyone thinks he's A+.

See the post I just mentioned above. I agree with you, LOL.

Chan and Hanyu probably have the best skating skills AND they do transitions. Jason is chasing these guys clearly. What he's been able to do so far has put him on par with pretty much everyone except those two. Jason has never beat Javier Fernandez, but I don't think Javi has superior skating skills. Denis Ten has better skating skills than Jason. So those three as far as SS.

ETA: Han Yan also has really awesome skating skills, but Jason has better PCS in the other categories.

 

[Sydney Rose]

See the post I just mentioned above. I agree with you, LOL.

Chan and Hanyu probably have the best skating skills AND they do transitions. Jason is chasing these guys clearly. What he's been able to do so far has put him on par with pretty much everyone except those two. Jason has never beat Javier Fernandez, but I don't think Javi has superior skating skills. Denis Ten has better skating skills than Jason. So those three as far as SS.

ETA: Han Yan also has really awesome skating skills, but Jason has better PCS in the other categories.

What's wonderful about Chan and Hanyu is that, even when they fall, their excellent skating skills remain intact. That's the benefit of having learned them early. Fernandez's skating skills have definitely improved under Brian & Tracy but, when he's stressed, it seems to me he regresses somewhat.

Dave Lease said something a few weeks ago regarding Jason and his need to improve his skating skills. He questioned whether Jason benefited from doing his SS workouts with seven year olds, which apparently is how they do them at Monument.

 

[Mrs. P]

What's wonderful about Chan and Hanyu is that, even when they fall, their excellent skating skills remain intact. That's the benefit of having learned them early. Fernandez's skating skills have definitely improved under Brian & Tracy but, when he's stressed, it seems to me he regresses somewhat.

Dave Lease said something a few weeks ago regarding Jason and his need to improve his skating skills. He questioned whether Jason benefited from doing his SS workouts with seven year olds, which apparently is how they do them at Monument.

Is he referring to the group SS classes at Skate7k? I remember Kori talking about to TSL why she does the group classes, though I'm foggy on the reasoning.

I highly doubt that the only source of skating skills practice, though I'm obviously not privy to their day-to-day training.

 

[dorispulaski]

Perhaps Jason is co-coaching those classes?

 

[TheGrandSophy]

I haven't watched Kore's interview yet so I can't answer that part, but yes, he was saying that, whilst it was nice to see all the team at edge class together, he felt that Jason needed a totally different level of class and it would be better for him and Mariah especially to be separate.

 

[dorispulaski]

According to Restencourt, Jason works 10 hours a day. I would not be surprised if some of that was non-group steps and edges.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

At 37:00 for that comment- http://www.theskatinglesson.com/thi...the-american-ladies-and-ondrej-nepela-trophy/

 

[mrrice]

He doesn't have deep edge like the top guys. He can't generate speed like the top guys, he doesn't have hard transitions like the top guys. You can compare him to Hanyu and Chan to see how fluid they are and how fast they are compare to him. Jason is a B+ Skating skills skater but everyone thinks he's A+.

According to me........No one can be compared to Patrick Chan. Unless you've seen him live it's difficult to explain the sound of his edges. Musically, I'd say Patrick's edges sounded like a Bass Vocalist. Very deep and almost "Thunderous" I hope that made sense. In contrast, Eman's blades sounded like a Baritone. Deep but, not as deep as Patrick. I can never remember his name but, the Canadian guy with the big spirals and giant falling leaf's sounded like a Tenor. Very sweet and light which is how I imagine Jason's edges might sound as they have a similar style.

Shawn Freakin' Sawyer! That's his name. He's great and reminds me very much of Jason. Well, Shawn's older but I didn't see him until after I'd seen Jason.

 

[StitchMonkey]

What's wonderful about Chan and Hanyu is that, even when they fall, their excellent skating skills remain intact. That's the benefit of having learned them early. Fernandez's skating skills have definitely improved under Brian & Tracy but, when he's stressed, it seems to me he regresses somewhat.

Dave Lease said something a few weeks ago regarding Jason and his need to improve his skating skills. He questioned whether Jason benefited from doing his SS workouts with seven year olds, which apparently is how they do them at Monument.

I remember that and I remember wondering why Dave thinks Jason *only* works on skating skills with the 7 year olds. I would expect he has his fair share of private lessons, or at least more private they they want to have recorded. Some stuff should remain private or even proprietary. I suspect the 7 year olds often get one on one time too as needed.

It also could be that when Jason is working one on one they are not working on "edge" class" or "Skating Skills class" so much as just one one one coaching with Jason tailored to Jason for Jason. Which I would assume includes edge and skills work specifically tailored to Jason.

I think the do the basics with everyone then work on your specific issues one on one is likely a pretty good way to do it.

 

[TMC]

I remember that and I remember wondering why Dave thinks Jason *only* works on skating skills with the 7 year olds. I would expect he has his fair share of private lessons, or at least more private they they want to have recorded. Some stuff should remain private or even proprietary. I suspect the 7 year olds often get one on one time too as needed.

It also could be that when Jason is working one on one they are not working on "edge" class" or "Skating Skills class" so much as just one one one coaching with Jason tailored to Jason for Jason. Which I would assume includes edge and skills work specifically tailored to Jason.

I think the do the basics with everyone then work on your specific issues one on one is likely a pretty good way to do it.

I agree.

Also, just as an aside, I for one have found that I learn/figure things out better when I'm teaching someone else. Teaching someone else forces you to actually think about why things are the way they are, instead of just going with your gut. Like I may think I know all there is to know about a certain theory of semiotics, but when I have to explain it to a student, I realise that there are maybe more ways to look at it than the one I'm used to...

 

[StitchMonkey]

I agree.

Also, just as an aside, I for one have found that I learn/figure things out better when I'm teaching someone else. Teaching someone else forces you to actually think about why things are the way they are, instead of just going with your gut. Like I may think I know all there is to know about a certain theory of semiotics, but when I have to explain it to a student, I realise that there are maybe more ways to look at it than the one I'm used to...

That is true of other areas of life then sports too. I worked with an attorney that picked up a mantra of "Watch one, do one, teach one" when learning new cases/areas of law. The idea being that you need to take that step of being able to explain it to really understand it.

I can certainly see the advantages of teaching basic classes when you are at Jason's level. The human brain gets bored easily, you have to keep it mixed up to not get burned out. Practicing something you know can get old.... teaching someone is a way to keep your brain thinking on the basics without it getting monotonous.

 

[el henry]

Count me as another who wondered what on earth Dave was thinking by implying that the video clip was the *only* edge training Jason received.

Not only is teaching a great way to learning, but the group classes seem tailor made for Jason. Jason is obviously an "11 plus" on a one to ten extrovert scale. I think nothing but one on one lessons at a "senior" level (whatever that is) would not fit him psychologically, and Kori is all about the psychology....

(Although there is the old resident physician's adage, "watch one, do one, kill one"

 

[Tavi...]

Just watched Skate America yesterday, Jason pulled off a beautiful and lyrical LP. It is packed with transitions, turns and nuances. He received a very high PCS which is totally deserving.

However, I am frustrated by his jumps. His quard is still not there, and not much flow comes out of his other jumps. I am so worried about him since I love him to death. Can he achieve steady quad(s)?

To get back to the OP's question:

According to Kori and Vincent, Jason started landing clean quads 3 weeks ago. Here they are, courtesy of Stitch:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgVSAyBj5RY


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=pK4CUWWFsTE

They're very pretty, aren't they? That's what he's capable of in isolation.

Since last February, he has tried the quad 4 times in competition: at 4CCs, it was << and two footed. He stood up but the general comment was "not even close." At Glacier Falls in July, he put it into the SP (fall) and the FS (stood up) - both were <<, I think. He also fell on almost all his other jumps. People thought he looked awful overall.

At Nepela on October 2, the quad was only in the FS. It was << but he stood up. He got credit for both 3A, but with negative GOE on both. He also got an edge call on his normally great 3F-3T and the 3T was called <. Still, the consensus was that the quad looked closer and overall both programs looked a lot better.

At Skate America he fell on his quad, but for the first time, it was only called <, not <<. That is a huge improvement even with the fall. Again, the consensus was, it looks closer. Even better, he gave a killer performance & got +GOE on his first half 3A combo. Unfortunately the 2d 3A was <<, but it's in the second half and has a really hard entrance. Again the 3T in his combo was < but no edge call this time. And again, there was noticeable improvement overall.

So his quad is improving slowly and he's gradually getting more comfortable with his very difficult choreo, but with his focus on those things, his other jumps are suffering a bit. As others have said, he's a really hard worker, something I witnessed for myself in the SA practices. I think it's a little early to worry, and I personally think he will get a consistent quad and his other jumps will return to normal. I hope it happens in time for Nats so that he's able to go to worlds. But only time will tell.

 

[Ryusa5]

When I saw the videos released with his quad and quad-combo I had high hopes and thought he was doing it consistently that's why the videos were releases, but in the last 2 competitions the practice reports were really dissapointing- he's far from close to having it consistent(his success rate is extremely low and even then the rotation is questionable at best which makes me wonder how many times did they had to shoot the videos to get them right).I think that at least this season he's gonna struggle with it a lot, but maybe next year it will be a bit better.

 

[noskates]

Bwahahah - MrRice you made me laugh out loud.

I have seen Patrick Chan in person (met him, talked to him, etc. and then watched him skate) and would agree that his skating skills are superb. I guess I don't see the same thing with Hanyu as Patrick is far more graceful and Hanyu is another jumping bean) But, having said that, thank you all for answering my question. I still think that Jason's choreography dictates not only his speed but a lot of other things. Wonder what would happen if someone other than Rohene (who I really, really like and respect) choreographed a program for him.

 

[mrrice]

Bwahahah - MrRice you made me laugh out loud.

I have seen Patrick Chan in person (met him, talked to him, etc. and then watched him skate) and would agree that his skating skills are superb. I guess I don't see the same thing with Hanyu as Patrick is far more graceful and Hanyu is another jumping bean) But, having said that, thank you all for answering my question. I still think that Jason's choreography dictates not only his speed but a lot of other things. Wonder what would happen if someone other than Rohene (who I really, really like and respect) choreographed a program for him.

Before I say anything. I'd like to say that I'm officially jealous that you've spoken to Patrick. I would love to see Patrick skate a program from Rohene. In fact, just thinking about it makes my mind wonder. With Patrick's deep edges and his dance ability, I can only dream about what the two of them could come up with. The only thing I can imagine that Jason has on Patrick is flexibility. However, I don't know this for sure as I've never seen Patrick do a Spiral or try a falling leaf.

 

[noskates]

So I'll tell you all the details. First of all, Patrick is one of the nicest young men I've met in the skating world as far as being gracious to fans (the other two are Kurt Browning and Jason Brown) My friend and I go to Stars on Ice every year in San Jose, CA. For a few extra bucks you can get a buffet meal and meet 2 skaters. Two years ago it was Ashley and Gracie and they couldn't have been nicer. All the crap talk about Gracie being an ice queen and aloof just didn't come true when I met her - but that's another story. This past January it was Polina Edmunds (because she just lives a few miles away) and Patrick. We were thrilled that Patrick was mingling with the fans. Each of us got to shake his hand, get something signed, and chat a bit. We had our pictures taken together with him and each of us alone and he put his arm around our waists and pulled us in close. One thing that struck me was he's much shorter than I thought from watching him skate! We went back to our table and continued with our brunch and then I noticed he had walked over to a table of disabled teens and was sitting with them, shaking their hands, etc. You can't imagine the look on some of their faces that Patrick was giving them attention. We were able to go in the arena and watch practice and there was a synchronized team from the area.....maybe 20 skaters, boys and girls, ages maybe 10 to teens. They were sitting watching the practice and when Patrick was finished with his run-through he went down the line and shook hands with each of the kids.

I know sometimes he says things that come out wrong and gets criticism for some of his interviews but I saw nothing but a very nice young man who was conscious of his fans and was not the least bit arrogant or stuck up.

(didn't mean to hijack the Jason thread but had to respond to MrRice)

I've also met Jason and he's also one of the nicest young men EVER. And he's a big hugger!!

 

[dcr]

He doesn't have deep edge like the top guys. He can't generate speed like the top guys, he doesn't have hard transitions like the top guys. You can compare him to Hanyu and Chan to see how fluid they are and how fast they are compare to him. Jason is a B+ Skating skills skater but everyone thinks he's A+.

His programs are always so memorable and generate wonderful audience appeal but I have to agree with FlattFan. He still has some work to do to attain the same level as Hanyu for example.