Ladies Free Skate

[Mathman]

I don't get all the hand-wringing and tsk-tsking about gushing posts. By defintion a gush is an over-the-top, deliberately exaggerated, somewhat tongue-in-cheek paean to whatever.

If I post that Alissa is the best thing since sliced bread, is it really necessary for more sober minds to rush in and point out that, no, the Salk polio vaccine came after sliced bread, and that's even better than Alissa's Skate Canada program?

But I do agree with Rgirl and with Emma, about the shot in the arm that Alissa's fine start has given to the season. Instead of us moping around over Michelle and Sasha withdrawing from their fall events, now all the talk is about, boy-oh-boy, I can't wait to see what Kimmie does!

Mathman

 

[R.D.]

Yes, it's certainly about the young 'uns this time around

But it's not the gushing per-se; I believe it's so many people deducing from her ONE good performance at SA (and now SC) that she's now a force to be reckoned with, she can challenge the likes of Cohen and Kwan, she can blow Meissner away, etc. And what the "sober-minded" are trying to say is that we simply don't know yet. These "gushers" are doing everything right now but crowning Alissa the next National/OLY champion, IMO. You know where I stand on this so I won't repeat it. Gushing over Alissa's actual PROGRAM, though, personally doesn't bother me (for now anyway ). But who's to say. Do whatever you wish...just don't be surprised if...to put it nicely...well, never mind

 

[R.D.]

Instead of us moping around over Michelle and Sasha withdrawing from their fall events, now all the talk is about, boy-oh-boy, I can't wait to see what Kimmie does!

Yeah..well, at least we can say SOMETHING is happening this season

 

[Rgirl]

Rgirl, I couldn't agree more with what you said in your lengthier post and with what Vash is saying....However, a) Cizny won SILVER at Skate America and then Gold at Skate Canada; and b) i think there is a difference between being excited about her showings at these last two, given the circumstance, and calling her the next Michelle Kwan. As a fan of this SPORT, her upset second place and truly surprising, imo, first place, are worthy of tons of commentary precisely because of the 'upset' and 'surprising' quality of them. Also, because the win was against a very good FS of Rochette's, there is tons of room as fans of this sport to debate the win (in sportsperson like ways). That she has tons to improve on is also a worthy topic of discussion, and the details of what needs to be improved are surely fascinating. I personally would like us to abe able to have all of these conversations and more. I felt earlier, and still feel somewhat now in light of your commentary, that we somehow have a five second limit on discussing the 'upset,' and I dislike that because the thrill of the event is major part of what I like about figureskating (another major part is the growth and change over time too, I just want to be able to relish the moment as well, the upsets, the surprises, etc.).

And for the record, I am excited about this skater and her wins because of the surprises, not because she is a US skater. I think it is important to make that latter point clear too.

Thanks for your thoughtful response to my post, Emma. I agree with 99% of what you said and am glad you posted your clear and concise, fair and balanced rebuttal. It being the political season, we never hear that from the candidates--at least where I live. :scratch:

The only thing I would take issue with, and I realize you are using hyperbole re "five-second limit," is, "I felt earlier...that we somehow have a five second limit on discussing the 'upset,' and I dislike that because the thrill of the event is major part of what I like about figureskating (another major part is the growth and change over time too, I just want to be able to relish the moment as well, the upsets, the surprises, etc.)." Maybe it's because I'm on the "sober" side, but I feel there was plenty of time and plenty of posts to relish Alissa's SA silver and now her SC gold. Regarding SA, many of us had fresh in our minds Alissa's poor performance jumpwise at Campbell's and I know for me, while I was happy Alissa did a great 3L/2t and two or three other triples, there was the fall and in light of Campbell's, I didn't know whether to think she just had a bad LP at Campbell's or just had lucky LP at SA.

What I read after people were able to watch her SA skate on TV was about 80-90% pure excitement over Alissa and 10-20% comments along the lines of, "Loved her spins and spirals; haven't seen her enough to get too excited," or "Loved her (insert whatever), but felt she still needs a lot of work on (insert whatever)." I think that's fair on a general forum.

With SC, most/many of us haven't had a chance to see it yet. Perhaps us "sober-minded" folks who haven't seen SC should preface our posts with that fact. In any case, we can't help how we feel and in most of the "sober" posts I've read, the poster has noted that Alissa has many positive qualities. At least with Alissa, I haven't read a single "All this hype is ridiculous!" post, just people either saying they want to see more of her before they decide or pointing out the weaknesses in her skating they've seen so far, but all acknowledging her exciting strengths. From what I've read, it's been the "gushers" for Alissa by at least an 8:2 ration, IMO, which is fine by me. We curmudgeons simply have a job to do. It's a dirty job, but someboy has to do it.

I don't get all the hand-wringing and tsk-tsking about gushing posts. By defintion a gush is an over-the-top, deliberately exaggerated, somewhat tongue-in-cheek paean to whatever.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gush

1. To make an excessive display of sentiment or enthusiasm: gushed over the baby.
2. Excessively demonstrative language or behavior.
3. Praise enthusiastically.

Granted, this is only one dictionary, but it didn't say anything about "tongue-in-cheek" nor have I gotten an ironic tone from those who have "gushed" about Alissa.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hand-wringing

1. An excessive expression of distress.

Again, just one dictionary, but I haven't read any, "Oh, dear! Oh, dear! What are we to do about all this distressing gushing over Alissa Czisny!"

If I post that Alissa is the best thing since sliced bread, is it really necessary for more sober minds to rush in and point out that, no, the Salk polio vaccine came after sliced bread, and that's even better than Alissa's Skate Canada program?

Yes. :indiff: *

Rgirl

*Sober-minded smiley.

 

[Mathman]

Oh yeah? What about "tsk-tsking?"

Definition: Tsk-tsking. Tut-tutting.

 

[emma]

Great post Rgirl. When I read it, one very obvious thing stood out for me: we don't all have highspeed internet, or use it when we do to addictively dowload videos or stream events live (or to simultaneously read the pbp). SO obviously in addition to having different feelings/interpretations for the usual reasons (age, gender, class, race, nationality, and many other affiliations/loyalities), many of us haven't even experienced the event yet...:no:

Having said that, I would love informed opinions on Alissa's basic skating skills, especially stroking, because I've read the entire gamut of opinion from "her stroking is better than Irina's" (which I find hard to believe, but would love to be convinced), to her stroking doesn't even compare with novice skater x.

Since your post on her arms, I just keep seeing all arms and problems with them when I re-watch my (addiction driven) dowloads...and I think MM made a joke about hand positions, but seriously, all I see when I re-watch are these sort of stiff hands/fingers and I think of Harding (wierd association, right?). I do, of course, think her spins and spirals are really special, but even the spiral could be displayed somehow with more something, but I don't know what exactly that something is. And the the Ina Bauer and other moves need to be held longer I think and sort of stretchted or presented better. But despite these and other criticisms, I really can't wait for the GPF to see how she holds up, and hopefully how she improves with the training time she has now.

Finally, even though I snickered a bit at Eman's win of the GPF final essentially due to a mistake made by Plushy (in combination with some great skating on Eman's part -- and for the record I worship his skating, just not his competitive skills) I thought it was super cool that he won given the fact that he was a replacement skater...so unexpected win, totally exciting to me as a spectator. Well similiarly, I feel totally the same way about Alissa...she made the final because she got points, but she got them in no small part because at the last minute she replaced Cohen (it was Cohen, right?). I think that's cool. Wish Cohen could have skated, of course, but still think it's cool.

 

[emma]

...about the shot in the arm that Alissa's fine start has given to the season. Instead of us moping around over Michelle and Sasha withdrawing from their fall events, now all the talk is about, boy-oh-boy, I can't wait to see what Kimmie does!

Mathman

I guess I should admit that I was feeling super down about this season back in the summer when Zhao's injury was announced...then the other injuries and some luke warm openers and the complaints about CoP from skaters were all making me even more down on this season. Some great skates by Takahashi, Oda, and yes, Cizny, and others too have brought me out of my gloomy mood and so maybe that's why, in part at least, I felt that rush with these first two grand prixs -- i got the excitement for the season back!

ETA -- eeekkkkkk I forgot to mention and Eman, and the triple axel wonder whose name I just blanked on (third place finish), and still more names that I'm blanking on suddenly.

 

[Doggygirl]

To whatever degree I'm considered and "Alissa Gusher..."

I will say this. She got silver (deservedly, IMO, in the competitive field she faced) about 1.5 weeks ago at SA. She got gold (deservedly, IMO, in the competitive field she faced there) at SC about 4 days ago.

So people who are enthusiasticly commenting (in their opinion) about her performances and improvements over Campbell's of a few weeks ago, and last year's performances including Jr. World's etc. are somehow endlessly gushing??????

Maybe I'm not really understanding the point.....(I'm sure I'm not!)

DG

 

[R.D.]

So people who are enthusiasticly commenting (in their opinion) about her performances and improvements over Campbell's of a few weeks ago, and last year's performances including Jr. World's etc. are somehow endlessly gushing??????

I can't, and won't, speak for everyone. But from MY point of view, a gush is a gush; the only "thing" I was disagreeing with is all the fan hype claiming she's the next big thing, when we clearly have no proof. That's all. And IIRC many of the "gushers" said comments like that.

 

[hockeyfan228]

While she didn't have the pressure of expectations -- like Sarah Hughes did going into 2002 US Nationals -- I think it was impressive that Czisny was in medal position after the SP at SA and skated a strong LP, and then came back the next week and won the SP, and with a good lead and the prospect of a gold medal dangling in front of her, skated another strong LP to win. She didn't default into her victory in any way, and skated a personal best.

Granted, she had good leads over Kostner, Rochette, and Suguri in the SP, but that doesn't guarantee that a skater will stand up to the pressure.

 

[Mathman]

Now that I've seen it, I thought Joannie was great.

MM