Lambiel doing lower level spins.

[slutskayafan21]

Stephane Lambiel is supposed to be the worlds best male spinner, or atleast one of the best. Yet so far this year his spin values are lower than many of his competitors, his GOE are often the highest, but he is doing only level 2 or 3 spins so far and his competitors are doing alot of level 3 and 4 spins. Why is he not doing higher level spins right now?

 

[Linny]

because the level assignment is wrong

When assigning levels, it seems like multiple ackward positions are required.
Linny

 

[soogar]

Stephane has said that he does not like the ugly COE spins that everyone is doing. He prefers to do fast, simpler spins because they look better and I agree with him. I hope he sticks to his guns because he makes up the points on GOE's and it probably helps his PCS scores as well.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Stephane has said that he does not like the ugly COE spins that everyone is doing. He prefers to do fast, simpler spins because they look better and I agree with him. I hope he sticks to his guns because he makes up the points on GOE's and it probably helps his PCS scores as well.

I'm with Stephane. Figure Skating is getting uglier and uglier by the season, imo.
Just look at those wrestling matches in Pairs spins. I would give them a level 0.

Joe

 

[slutskayafan21]

Stephane has said that he does not like the ugly COE spins that everyone is doing. He prefers to do fast, simpler spins because they look better and I agree with him. I hope he sticks to his guns because he makes up the points on GOE's and it probably helps his PCS scores as well.

Actually GOE scores are cut in half. You gain more with an additional level on a spin than averaging a full +1 higher than somebody else in GOE on a spin. So you cant gain many points at all on GOE under the current format, even if you are credited for better spins. Secondly the judges dont score GOE on spins right, the judges scoring of spins are a joke, skaters like Buttle and Lambiel who have exceptional spins are barely getting higher GOE scores on spins as very mediocre spinners like Lysacek and Plushenko. Spin GOE is useless for the two reasons stated. All that matters is levels pretty much.

 

[soogar]

Actually GOE scores are cut in half. You gain more with an additional level on a spin than averaging a full +1 higher than somebody else in GOE on a spin. So you cant gain many points at all on GOE under the current format, even if you are credited for better spins. Secondly the judges dont score GOE on spins right, the judges scoring of spins are a joke, skaters like Buttle and Lambiel who have exceptional spins are barely getting higher GOE scores on spins as very mediocre spinners like Lysacek and Plushenko. Spin GOE is useless for the two reasons stated. All that matters is levels pretty much.

He might not get more credit on a difficutl spin, but I bet that he gets extra on his PCS scores b/c the faster spins make his program look that much better. Also he gets the audience on his side when he does these fast spins and that could really boost a performance.

 

[slutskayafan21]

He might not get more credit on a difficutl spin, but I bet that he gets extra on his PCS scores b/c the faster spins make his program look that much better. Also he gets the audience on his side when he does these fast spins and that could really boost a performance.

Good points.

He still should not be doing level 2 spins when some mediocre spinners are able to do all level 3, and some that are only fairly good spinners are doing alot of level 4.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I'm with Stephane. Figure Skating is getting uglier and uglier by the season, imo.
Just look at those wrestling matches in Pairs spins. I would give them a level 0.

Joe

Yeah ugly lifts in dance, and ugly spins in mens and womens, that dont seem more difficult than some more aesthetic ones have much higher values. The new system is showing its holes in alot of ways.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yeah ugly lifts in dance, and ugly spins in mens and womens, that dont seem more difficult than some more aesthetic ones have much higher values. The new system is showing its holes in alot of ways.

I wish they'd ban the crotch lifts even for decency sake if not because they do nothing for the viewer. My feelings now about dance is that it is a mini Pairs.

Joe

 

[slutskayafan21]

I wish they'd ban the crotch lifts even for decency sake if not because they do nothing for the viewer. My feelings now about dance is that it is a mini Pairs.

Joe

Yeah there are alot of lifts with the legs split far apart, or the ladies upside down, or pretzeled, they are getting crazy!!! You are right, it is like mini-pairs.

 

[soogar]

I wish they'd ban the crotch lifts even for decency sake if not because they do nothing for the viewer. My feelings now about dance is that it is a mini Pairs.

Joe

Well they did ban upside down lifts in a split position. That's why everyone is doing the skate to the head lifts this year.

 

[antmanb]

I wish they'd ban the crotch lifts even for decency sake if not because they do nothing for the viewer. My feelings now about dance is that it is a mini Pairs.

Joe

My sentiments exactly its the worst of a pairs competition without the excitement of throws, jumps and overhead lifts...its mostly adagio skating with Biellmann carries....yuk!

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

My sentiments exactly its the worst of a pairs competition without the excitement of throws, jumps and overhead lifts...its mostly adagio skating with Biellmann carries....yuk!

Ant

I've been watching the dance in the GP series and it's incredible the Variations on a Theme of Shoot the Duck that has taken hold of the dance teams and the ever popular Twizzles. They look ridiculous when you wonder what they have to do with the character of the music?

The competitors are using the CoP for points and sacrificing the beauty of dance for that medal. I don't blame them, I just wish they would change the name of the discipline from Skate Dance to Couples Tricks.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

I've been watching the dance in the GP series and it's incredible the Variations on a Theme of Shoot the Duck that has taken hold of the dance teams and the ever popular Twizzles. They look ridiculous when you wonder what they have to do with the character of the music?

The competitors are using the CoP for points and sacrificing the beauty of dance for that medal. I don't blame them, I just wish they would change the name of the discipline from Skate Dance to Couples Tricks.

Joe

The other thing is how awful the series of twizzles are - the couples do them great to the side of their natural rotation and then they do them at half the speed really insecurely and off balance for the other way round. I was at British nationals over the weekend and difference between the "good" side and "bad" side twizzles was enormous even from the Kerrs.

I must say that of the four couples skating in the senior dance event, the third place couple were the only ones who did a program that resembled dance. I was never a huge fan of dance in the first place but this discipline that dance has become is bearly watchable.

And i'm struggling to remember which program whether it was the OD or the Free that every couple had really messy looking mirror image step sequences (as opposed to the shadow type ones) which included a series of twizzles which again was done badly by all the couples. Is this a mandatory requirement now or a "level enhancer".

Finally to rant (perhaps this should be a new rant about dance thread) if i see another pairs broken leg sitspin again it'll be too soon.

Ant

 

[slutskayafan21]

When skaters with spins like Lysacek and Plushenko are earning more points from spins than Lambiel is the system is flawed. When Totmianina/Marinin are being credited with level 4 difficulty on many of their lifts(if you can believe this, LOL!) you know the system is flawed, it is amazing how announcers speak of how easy their lifts are, the exact same ones they are doing now, and technical specialists say maximum level 4 for each. When Irina is able to get maximum spin values just by doing all Biellmans at the end as a variation there is a problem with the system. When dance programs look to composed of only twizzles and upside-down contorted lifts, there is a problem with the system. I am liking the system less and less as the season moves along.

 

[yelyoh]

When skaters with spins like Lysacek and Plushenko are earning more points from spins than Lambiel is the system is flawed. When Totmianina/Marinin are being credited with level 4 difficulty on many of their lifts(if you can believe this, LOL!) you know the system is flawed, it is amazing how announcers speak of how easy their lifts are, the exact same ones they are doing now, and technical specialists say maximum level 4 for each. When Irina is able to get maximum spin values just by doing all Biellmans at the end as a variation there is a problem with the system. When dance programs look to composed of only twizzles and upside-down contorted lifts, there is a problem with the system. I am liking the system less and less as the season moves along.

ITA with this. I would rather watch Lambiel spin any day over the others who are getting awarded for crappy spins. I AM interested in seeing Takahashi's spins as they are getting level fours.

 

[mzheng]

When assigning levels, it seems like multiple ackward positions are required.
Linny

ITA.

OK, he use low level spins, but what is his GOE? Can he use his ++ GOE to overcome other skater's multiple awkward position high level? The problem might be he does get some ++ GOE. But bad excution on high level spin does not get -- GOE. This is where kill him?

 

[rain]

May I add to the list of elements uglied up by the COP - death spirals in pairs. In the hunt for added points everybody's trying to make up a new entrance, exit or position and most of them look terrible. What I wouldn't give to see a simple, well-executed one! Alas it seems to be a dying breed. The same goes for spins. Yeah, multiple changes of position are difficult, blah, blah, blah, but it's also muddied things up to the point where one can't just enjoy a classic position with well-done, fast rotation anymore. Who the hell cares if it's difficult if it's ugly and you never want to see it again?

 

[mzheng]

I wish they'd ban the crotch lifts even for decency sake if not because they do nothing for the viewer. My feelings now about dance is that it is a mini Pairs.

Joe

How about ban crotch show judges gliding as well? I remembered there is a movement in N/K's LP where two of them back to back doing something like frog gliding Nvaka's crotch direct shown to Judge panel (also camara) for a quit long time. The movement just pure invoke ......

 

[Hikaru]

Yeah there are alot of lifts with the legs split far apart, or the ladies upside down, or pretzeled, they are getting crazy!!! You are right, it is like mini-pairs.

Not to mention the need of the ice dancers to jam their skates in their heads (I swear that Grushina - Goncharobv do as many pseudo-biellman grabs in their lifts...). Just yesterday I was looking for some pictures to make the covers of my skating videos and pretty much everything was biellman left and right. I know they want to go for higher levels, but isn't there another way to get them without the biellman? or is it that it's easier to get a higher level by doing a bielman than doing something else?

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