Leaping Beauty: Balletic Chen Soars

[TontoK]

you almost had a perfect post there...

LOL. You gotta lighten up.

Just clowning. Wondering if anyone would read far enough to notice.

 

[4everchan]

LOL. You gotta lighten up.

Just clowning. Wondering if anyone would read far enough to notice.

now you know i do read properly

i will forgive you for this one, clown

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Ever consider that some of this 'criticism' isn't merited? What was written in this thread that deserved levels of sarcasm? I don't even think half of the 'criticism' here are actual observations about Nathan's faults (which he has, ofc).

And where did I say that only Hanyu fans don't like Nathan? Like, this is what I'm talking about. People are just looking to be outraged by anyone on the other side of a discussion. I'm not dismissing anyone as an uber but mentioning his fans specifically bc a)I'm a Yuzu fan, b)no one in figure skating has a bigger following, and c)no other collective group of fans have as many people as eager to find fault in Nathan (which is what some fans are doing, let us not pretend). It's basically an echo chamber everywhere bc Yuzu has so many fans who'll agree/thumbs up/like anything negative about the kid. The fact that Chen and Hanyu are almost polar opposites as skaters kinda compounds on the problem. These people aren't willing to see the good parts of their fave's rival and it's so petty.

Oh, you don't even think half the criticism here is about Nathans faults? Well, maybe that is because it isn't. People are arguing about how OTT this article is and how stuff like 'experts wonder how some skating judges can't see it' looks like a cheap political play. Of course that isn't critisicm against Nathan, it's not supposed to be. Of course, if you don't get whats being criticized in the first place, things might look unmerited.
And I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to say to that Yuzu fans stuff. Yes, some fans overdo it on the Nathan criticizing front, but it's far from all Yuzu fans, or even the majority you are implying. Yet, there are all these pointless blanket statements (like yours here) about Yuzu fans - which you should see yourself are pointless, let alone because of how big his Fan following is. Didn't you just flat out say in a former discussion how the Hanyu fans criticizing Nathan are hypocrits too?

And seriously, why is this only a big bad conspiracy to boost or justify PCS when Nathan is the subject? Are we really going to pretend like there hasn't been a ton of fawning, over-the-top media surrounding Yuzuru? Or that his hype and reputation hasn't contributed to his overscoring?

And why are you pretending it's only Nathan who ever got a lot of critisicm? Countless skaters got it before (guess what, even Yuzu). And what makes you think all of his fans like the media around Yuzu that much? Although truth be told, I don't even remember any article this dumb about Yuzu. I'd guess not all nations are hyping equally.

Please... let's not go there in this battle between Nathan and the lesser skaters.

Is that supposed to be a joke? I'm not really sure on that one.

 

[gravy]

"I trivialize Nathan's artistry because he threatens my favourite skater(s) so, unsurprisingly, I'm dismayed when I see an article describing how he's taken ballet and actually is quite naturally graceful and artistic -- obviously a blatant contradiction to how I regard him. It's especially worrisome when the article mentions Chen even attempts to reflect the great Nureyev. So, naturally, I draw a hyperbolic conclusion that the author/those mentioned in the article are actually suggesting Nathan is as good as Nureyev. So, I'm gonna just dismiss this article as merely propaganda intended to add credibility to an artistically-deficient skater." :sarcasm:

Hah, 100% accurate. First they came for Fernandez then Chan then Uno and now Chen. How dare someone do quads and not be an artistic black hole!

I wonder how much some of the complainers have actually watched Nureyev performances and if they are simply scoffing at the idea that Nathan could be compared to a famous ballet dancer (even having himself done ballet), and evidently to them it's out of the realm of reason that Nathan could successfully emulate Nureyev or his movements.

I'd be willing to bet good money that most people who are agressively throwing Chen under the bus have never heard of Nureyev before this article surfaced.

 

[begin]

Oh, you don't even think half the criticism here is about Nathans faults? Well, maybe that is because it isn't. People are arguing about how OTT this article is and how stuff like 'experts wonder how some skating judges can't see it' looks like a cheap political play. Of course that isn't critisicm against Nathan, it's not supposed to be. Of course, if you don't get whats being criticized in the first place, things might look unmerited.

Wasn't talking about this article, was directly replying to you here:

Real talk - are we still going to dismiss any form of criticism/complain about Nathans scores/the hype around him as just coming from Hanyu ubers? How convenient but probably annoying for those people who actually dare to have an opinion without being Hanyu fans. Yes, they exist. If you'd care to see them, you would.

And I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to say to that Yuzu fans stuff. Yes, some fans overdo it on the Nathan criticizing front, but it's far from all Yuzu fans, or even the majority you are implying. Yet, there are all these pointless blanket statements (like yours here) about Yuzu fans - which you should see yourself are pointless, let alone because of how big his Fan following is. Didn't you just flat out say in a former discussion how the Hanyu fans criticizing Nathan are hypocrits too?

The extent of my opinion has been: This article is over-the-top. People having a cow over this article are over-the-top.

Is it not clear that 'excessive Chen critics consists of many Hanyu fans' =/= 'many/all Hanyu fans are excessive Chen critics'? Bc I've gone nowhere near implying the latter

And why are you pretending it's only Nathan who ever got a lot of critisicm? Countless skaters got it before (guess what, even Yuzu). And what makes you think all of his fans like the media around Yuzu that much?

Don't even know how you got to any of this from my comments but I'm not about to chase you down the semantics rabbit hole. This is too topic: as it is.

 

[Tavi...]

That's an interesting demand. Somebody who has been constantly using twisted "facts" to argue her points against Nathan or anyone she perceives as threatening to her horsey daisy is asking a truth teller to stop!

I admire ice coverage’s principle to stand up for all skaters, not only her fav. She always makes her points with references, facts and truth. I wish I have her patience.

Please stop attacking me personally. Thank you.

 

[andromache]

Read the article finally and holy cow I can't believe so many people are so mad about Nathan's ballet teacher heaping praise on him. She's his teacher and she obviously thinks he's super talented, and there's an article about it. Suddenly that's propaganda?

 

[Tutto]

Now that I've been officially informed that Nathan is Nureyev reincarnated I want to see his pointed toes, I mean, all the time including mid-air a-la Sasha Cohen who by the way could not boast of 10years + of formal ballet training but nevertheless was a true ballerina on the ice
And being sufficiently brainwashed by this article I do want to change my vote - I am now convinced that Nathan will take the gold in Helsinki - the ground is prepared

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Read the article finally and holy cow I can't believe so many people are so mad about Nathan's ballet teacher heaping praise on him. She's his teacher and she obviously thinks he's super talented, and there's an article about it. Suddenly that's propaganda?

#fakenews

 

[snowflake]

Interesting article. I didn’t know Nathan’s story. So, 5 quads in the free program because that’s what gather points… surprise, surprise… most skaters would do it if they could I’m extremely impressed with him and his ambitions. Very exciting skater to follow. Can’t wait to see him continue to develop his musicality, his moves, his positions and skating skills. Good luck Nathan, really! And congrats to US figure skating.

And it's his first year in Seniors. Give him time. Anyone who has ever watched dance can see his carriage, his musicality. And Chen is spot on about what is the biggest issue in men's right now: sacrificing artistry in order to push the technical. I think he'll strike a better balance between the technical demands and the artistry as he matures.

I agree a lot with this comment.

 

[Big Deal]

He is as much a unique talent as Hanyu was in that age (or even more).
Don't criticize him, enjoy and hope he will be able to continue like this and will entertain us like he already does it!
We need these kind of athletes worth watching the sport. The more of them means the bigger enjoyment for us.

 

[apgold]

I enjoyed this article as a fan of both ballet and figure skating. I didn't realize that Nathan's training was that extensive with Ballet West (a great company btw; I once interviewed their artistic director for a non-profit project I was working on).

I knew he had some ballet training in his background, but I also learned that he's done some performing and learned how to jump through ballet. I think his ballet training is a reason he was able to get his jumps back so quickly after surgery.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Read the article finally and holy cow I can't believe so many people are so mad about Nathan's ballet teacher heaping praise on him. She's his teacher and she obviously thinks he's super talented, and there's an article about it. Suddenly that's propaganda?

I'd expect any professional that a skater hires to coach him would be a strong advocate.

 

[andromache]

I'd expect any professional that a skater hires to coach him would be a strong advocate.

Exactly. And people are complaining about it being OTT, but well....what can you expect from a fluff piece? Most fluff pieces are OTT positive. That's the point.

 

[Mathman]

Now that I've been officially informed that Nathan is Nureyev reincarnated I want to see his pointed toes, I mean, all the time including mid-air a-la Sasha Cohen...

Well,...not exactly. You can't point your toes while wearing boots. (Or if you do, no one will know.) Skaters can flex their ankles a little.

Sasha: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d0/dd/26/d0dd261fa8416f007b9a081a36d61deb.jpg

Pointed toes: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d4/61/04/d46104b2110267f4c844c00e2a4ceab9.jpg

I think that what Nathan is being praised for is upper body carriage and arm positions. IMHO this is fair enough. Do figure skating judges like that? I guess we'll see in a few days.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Well,...not exactly. You can't point your toes while wearing boots. (Or if you do, no one will know.) Skaters can flex their ankles a little.

Yeah, I think it's a bit of an illusion. You may see:

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3c/b1/31/3cb1319eb926bf37ce322e7989cf8d8d.jpg

But it's actually:

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000eSvEoyj736A/s/860/860/2005111906-cohen.jpg

 

[Mathman]

Is that supposed to be a joke? I'm not really sure on that one.

I'm not taking sides. I tell all the skaters I go up against in competition, "You got yours. I got mine. C'mon."

But yes, that was a joke. And in the context of this thread, a funny one. Once the skating starts in a few days, we will look back on this thread and chuckle at ourselves. :yes:

 

[andromache]

Yeah, I think it's a bit of an illusion. You may see:

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3c/b1/31/3cb1319eb926bf37ce322e7989cf8d8d.jpg

But it's actually:

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000eSvEoyj736A/s/860/860/2005111906-cohen.jpg

But that flexed ankle does make a difference. Just compare Sasha to Yuna .

 

[Tutto]

Well,...not exactly. You can't point your toes while wearing boots. (Or if you do, no one will know.) Skaters can flex their ankles a little.

Sasha: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d0/dd/26/d0dd261fa8416f007b9a081a36d61deb.jpg

Pointed toes: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d4/61/04/d46104b2110267f4c844c00e2a4ceab9.jpg

I think that what Nathan is being praised for is upper body carriage and arm positions. IMHO this is fair enough. Do figure skating judges like that? I guess we'll see in a few days.

Sasha could. I have no time now but I'll post the pics where you can see her pointed toes in mid air jumps. Her posture on jump landings was amazing unlike Nathan's no offence.

 

[Fresca]

Yes, you can definitely see Nathan's ballet training in his musicality and upper body (carriage and port de bras). But he needs to improve his skating skills to let his ballet background come through in his lower body (Nathan where is your plie in your skates??). I'm also disappointed in his flexibility if he's really done ballet for so many years.

Yes but Hanyu skated like a limp noodle when he moved up to seniors. It took a few years for him to improve that (and yes, you Hanyu fans, he has). Nathan already has much better carriage than Yuzu had at a comparable point in their careers.

Carriage is stylistic. What works for one style of choreography may not work for another. I don't understand why ballet is the golden standard for carriage and movement in figure skating of all things. By your definition, Fred Astaire, Gregory Hines and Michael Jackson all have bad carriage. I, for one, am glad that Yuzu skated PW in a slouchy loose style. You don't dance to the blues like you do ballet.