Leaping Beauty: Balletic Chen Soars

[mrrice]

Sasha could. I have no time now but I'll post the pics where you can see her pointed toes in mid air jumps. Her posture on jump landings was amazing unlike Nathan's no offence.

Completely True!!! Here's a quick shot of Sasha's Spiral from Malagueña. Just by looking at her laces, you can see that her foot is clearly turned out. Note that you can't see her entire blade which means that she's doing everything she can to point in those stiff boots. Look at that back......Perfection!!

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/13/a2/f3/13a2f36267d09a62f3c415320cb3e007.jpg


Holy Cow!!!! Look what I found. 2 of the most flexible little cuties in the US.......Jason and Nathan.....https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7o12-OU8AAaDON.jpg

 

[andromache]

Holy Cow!!!! Look what I found. 2 of the most flexible little cuties in the US.......Jason and Nathan.....https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7o12-OU8AAaDON.jpg

This is so precious that I am dyingggggg

 

[Mathman]

Completely True!!! Here's a quick shot at Sasha's Spiral from Malagueña. Just by looking at her laces, you can see that her foot is clearly turned out. Note that you can't see her entire blade which means that she's everything she can to point in those stiff boots.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/13/a2/f3/13a2f36267d09a62f3c415320cb3e007.jpg

I guess I do not understand what pointed toes means. I can't see Sasha's toes at all. They are inside her boot. The boot is not flexing at the toes as far as I can see.

Yes, I can see the turnout of her foot. Yes, I can see the perfection of her back. Toes?

(By the way, this is the same picture that Drivingmisdaisy posted above to illustrate how the angle of the shot can mislead.)

Holy Cow!!!! Look what I found. 2 of the most flexible little cuties in the US.......Jason and Nathan.....https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7o12-OU8AAaDON.jpg

Johnnie Weir gave the best comment on pictures of the young Nathan. "I WANT THAT HAIRCUT!"

 

[Mathman]

Nathan's toes.

He's trying! he's trying!

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xr/62...44885AF268A6BFE49269F7A49BF6EA55A1E4F32AD3138

http://www.goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Nathan-Chen-LP.jpg

 

[mrrice]

Nathan's toes.

He's trying! he's trying!

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xr/62...44885AF268A6BFE49269F7A49BF6EA55A1E4F32AD3138

http://www.goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Nathan-Chen-LP.jpg

Yes he is....What you have to look for, IMO, is turn out. Look at this picture of Patrick. His feet are turned out but, look at his hands.....They are relaxed and extended. If you could see inside his boots, his feet would more than likely look the same way.....His Engine speaks itself....... https://www.thestar.com/content/dam...t/chan-jump.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x777.jpg

 

[TontoK]

I'm not taking sides. I tell all the skaters I go up against in competition, "You got yours. I got mine. C'mon."

But yes, that was a joke. And in the context of this thread, a funny one. Once the skating starts in a few days, we will look back on this thread and chuckle at ourselves. :yes:

Thank you! Since I made the joke, I'm the authority on it.

Trust me, it is hilarious.

 

[hippomoomin]

I always think the comparison between figure skating and ballet is overrated. I think a comparison between figure skating and dance in general is more appropriate. Unless a skater skates to a ballet piece, such as Zagitova's LP, the comparison is irreverent. If a program uses a jazz music, or rap, how can you use the standards of Ballet to judge it?

If we want to follow ballet, probably half of the skaters or more won't fit the desired ballet dancer body type: long legs, and super lean. Many skaters have short legs, even shorter than the average population, and stocky. They would be rejected by elite dance schools in the first place. And the assumption of elite ballet is if you don't have the desired body proportion, no matter what you can do, it is irrelevant.

I don't think Jason Brown is a good ballet dancer, but probably a good hip hop dancer off ice. Adelina may not be a good ballet dancer but definitely a good ballroom or Latin music dancer. I believe off ice dance training makes a difference, but not necessarily ballet.

 

[Mathman]

I always think the comparison between figure skating and ballet is overrated...

I think that people use the term "balletic" just to mean moving gracefully in general, not necessarily having to do with actual ballet.

 

[4everchan]

i think eman pointed his toes

 

[Ice Dance]

I'm also disappointed in his flexibility if he's really done ballet for so many years.

I suspect Nathan's extreme flexibility elements were determined to be not-worth-the-cost when he started suffering multiple growth-related injuries. He had all the usual extreme flexibility spins & positions when he was @twelve. Of course, flexibility does typically fade with age. But if he had it before, there's a reason he didn't keep pushing it. Nathan isn't the type to throw away something that will help him win.

 

[TontoK]

I suspect Nathan's extreme flexibility elements were determined to be not-worth-the-cost when he started suffering multiple growth-related injuries. He had all the usual extreme flexibility spins & positions when he was @twelve. Of course, flexibility does typically fade with age. But if he had it before, there's a reason he didn't keep pushing it. Nathan isn't the type to throw away something that will help him win.

His camel spins have nice stretch and good position, and when he does the catch-foot, he doesn't have to drop his foot to catch it, which is a pet peeve of mine.

He's good. I'm not looking for Sasha Cohen flexibility from any man.

 

[hippomoomin]

But certain dance cannot even be described as "graceful", but stylistic. Florent Amodio for example, in his Rio program.

I think that people use the term "balletic" just to mean moving gracefully in general, not necessarily having to do with actual ballet.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I suspect Nathan's extreme flexibility elements were determined to be not-worth-the-cost when he started suffering multiple growth-related injuries. He had all the usual extreme flexibility spins & positions when he was @twelve. Of course, flexibility does typically fade with age. But if he had it before, there's a reason he didn't keep pushing it. Nathan isn't the type to throw away something that will help him win.

Some people are just naturally more flexible. Like, he doesn't have the most open hips on his spread eagles and Ina bauers which means it's harder to get deeper edges on those movements (it's one peeve I have with him), but flexibility is so hard to maintain when you get older -- especially for guys -- and in Nathan's case, he also needs to have explosiveness.

I think sometimes we forget that skaters are still growing. As we've seen with Julia Lipnitskaia and Caroline Zhang, they can no longer have the same degree of flexibility as their body inevitably changes.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think sometimes we forget that skaters are still growing. As we've seen with Julia Lipnitskaia and Caroline Zhang, they can no longer have the same degree of flexibility as their body inevitably changes.

Skating is one of those sports, like gymnastics, in which the athletes have to exhibit flexibility and power. I imagine it's hard to maintain both because you need those fast-twitch muscles to jump, but also be able to stretch those same muscles for flexibility movements.

 

[Fresca]

Some people are just naturally more flexible. Like, he doesn't have the most open hips on his spread eagles and Ina bauers which means it's harder to get deeper edges on those movements (it's one peeve I have with him), but flexibility is so hard to maintain when you get older -- especially for guys -- and in Nathan's case, he also needs to have explosiveness.

He doesn't have great spread eagle or Ina Bauer which is why I was suprised that the article mentions he has "perfect turnout".

Yes, I agree that explosiveness is more important for him to execute his jumps but lack of flexibility limits the extent to which he can use his ballet in figure skating since the execution of many ballet positions requires it. Take for example the Le Corsaire choreography which he used for his SP. He wasn't able to take very much from it. Only the pas de borourre between the pirouette sequences and some arm positions. He didn't take anything from the jumps, turns or ending positions of the big elements which are what make the Le Corsaire solo distinctive and he could have because there's a lot of pirouette and releve in arabesque and attitude (sorry I do not consider his twizzle position with arms in third as arabesque...his free leg is so low that should be degage lol). Understandable though if he needed to give it up due to injury.

 

[plushyfan]

Whoa, hey now... Mathman, I hope you're not insinuating that Plushenko is on the same level as Nijinsky... why, poor Nijinsky must be rolling in his grave!

LOL! Some of Plushenko haters and non fans will be surprised.

Maya Plisetskaya: http://www.sport-express.ru/newspaper/2006-02-22/7_1/

Plushenko handsome and unreachable

E.S. - I cannot not ask you about Plushenko.

M.P.- He is our favourite. He is so good that it looks like nobody can beat him. I can't imagine who can be better. He is a master, a great master who does everything beautifully, brilliantly and artistically. Also, he always looks so confident that we, his fans, cannot be not confident. He skates like an artist who knows that he is the best. Other skaters think that they are good too, but they have doubts and get nervous. Plushenko on the contrary always knows that he is much better than others, and he convinces all of us in it. He not just "works" on ice, he dances on ice masterly, and that is a wonderful thing to see.

E.S.- What do you think about his appearance?

M.P.- I think his appearance is fine. He is tall, striking, with a handsome body and long arms. He is not some cute guy from the postcard, thanks god he is not!, but he has the perfect face for the stage. The ice is the stage too.

E.S.- Who does he remind you among ballet dancers?

M.P.- He looks like Godunov, the Russian ballet dancer. The same type- tall, handsome, self-confident, with long waving in the wind and pirouettes blond hair. In ballet he would be perfect at parts performed by Godunov. He has the temperament and virtuosity for that."


-Roberto Bolle - http://archiviostorico.gazzetta.it/...Plushenko_per_piroette__ga_10_060218181.shtml

I envy of Plushenko for his pirouette

From etoile (prime dancer) to gold medal skater. From La Scala in Milan to the Olympic ice of Palavela in Turin. From champion to champion. The Italian Roberto Bolle, star of the Italian classic ballet applauds the russian Evgeny Plushenko, gold medal in individual figure skating.

Bolle, what did you noticed in Plushenko’s performance?
- "Apart from the competition, that was very exciting, is not just the quality of exercise that excite me. His real strength comes from charisma, personality, by the presence on ice. He demonstrates how much he’s good, by showing the high consideration has about himself, and this effects his opponents. You could see that others were not so sure, he told them right away, from the first movement: "I am the number one”.

As a professional impression do you have of a similar performance?
- "It’s something very spectacular for everyone, even for us who are particularly similar, with our solos, especially in this race.
There are definete similarities, the way he steals, in his manner, his desire to get the attention '.


However, among the many phenomenal skaters, lately only Plushenko wins.
- "There are many skaters who have a strong body, and many are flexable and have softness and extreme extensibility in their movement. Honestly, I’m not an expert, I don’t notice one element that stands out the Russian. It is his artistic vision, the quality of dance and of how he presents himself , he has completeness."

Roberto Bolle did you ever tried to do Plushenko?
- "Some time ago, I was 13-14 years old, I tried to dance on the ice. It was a great sensation. I was fascinated by the speed and freedom of movement, but at the same time I decided not to take the risk. I was afraid of a possible injury.


-Sergei Filin he was the Bolshoi's director http://www.cultradio.ru/news/show/id/37384 :

"Cooperation with Plushenko

According to Filin, he engaged in many projects because it "interesting to live and do what does." "I do not ever take a break I'm working with the people with whom I'm interested, I respect We want to be wrong together, to stand up and move on why there are projects such as working with Zhenya Plushenko..." - He said.

Cooperation with Plushenko, for the artist, "is an unforgettable work in the room, it's amazing to overcome. And I'm ready to stand on two knees before the Olympic champion, because what he is doing in the rehearsal room with him, with his body, to eventually reach the ice, impossible to describe in words It is heroism, patriotism, love of the natural "-. said Filin.." ( google translate)

- https://www.instagram.com/p/BGOypOFDX1Y/ . Nikolai Tsiskaridze -he was principal dancer in Bolshoi
"From my point of view involved in ballet , it is immediately obvious. He is an unparalelled level, perhaps even close to perfection."

-Yuri Smekalov principal dancer and choreographer in Kirov Ballet, he was the choreographer of the Nijnsky program: Suppose take Plushenko. His charisma is so powerful that no matter what image of Jack chose, “he includes himself,” his inner strength and inner euphoria begins. It’s so captivates the audience, they forget that even a given image, which invested director. To them it does not matter. With Eugene in this sense simply to work…" ( google translate)

Toller was Nureyev one ice but Plushenko was mentioned as Baryshnikov on ice. not once in articles.


Back to the topic no one said that Chen is Nureyev. I don't like the malice. Go Nathan!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Skating is one of those sports, like gymnastics, in which the athletes have to exhibit flexibility and power. I imagine it's hard to maintain both because you need those fast-twitch muscles to jump, but also be able to stretch those same muscles for flexibility movements.

I don't think flexibility is key (see: Elvis Stojko), but it does lend itself to greater range of movement and positions, of course, which the sport rewards. The one discipline in which flexibility is a mandatory though, guys and girls, is ice dance -- there's absolutely no way you could be an elite ice dancer and not have flexibility to generate those deep edges and steps.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

He doesn't have great spread eagle or Ina Bauer which is why I was suprised that the article mentions he has "perfect turnout".

Yes, I agree that explosiveness is more important for him to execute his jumps but lack of flexibility limits the extent to which he can use his ballet in figure skating since the execution of many ballet positions requires it. Take for example the Le Corsaire choreography which he used for his SP. He wasn't able to take very much from it. Only the pas de borourre between the pirouette sequences and some arm positions. He didn't take anything from the jumps, turns or ending positions of the big elements which are what make the Le Corsaire solo distinctive and he could have because there's a lot of pirouette and releve in arabesque and attitude (sorry I do not consider his twizzle position with arms in third as arabesque...his free leg is so low that should be degage lol). Understandable though if he needed to give it up due to injury.

I would say perfect turnout in ballet is different than perfect turnout in figure skating. It is also much harder to do turnouts in boots than bare feet (much to my chagrin every time I've been able to easily do an outside spread eagle off ice but miserably fail when in skates. )

 

[Fresca]

I would say perfect turnout in ballet is different than perfect turnout in figure skating. It is also much harder to do turnouts in boots than bare feet (much to my chagrin every time I've been able to easily do an outside spread eagle off ice but miserably fail when in skates. )

Interesting...Is that because skating boots prevent you from getting any turnout from the ankles so you're relying on your hips to get the turnout?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Interesting...Is that because skating boots prevent you from getting any turnout from the ankles so you're relying on your hips to get the turnout?

Well, I can turn out my hips off-ice to 180 degrees (slightly even more, actually), and when I warm up, I turn my skates/boots outwards against the bottom of the boards to stretch/open up my hips. But when I try to do the actual outside spread eagle it's a struggle, since I'm not naturally flexible (it actually is uncomfortable to sit cross-legged - long legs + inflexible hips). I used to be able to do the splits, but that was only if I kept with it every day without fail for a month or so, and I just don't commit myself to daily stretching.