Let's talk about season 2022-23 music choices

[Anna K.]

The season has started, the programs have been premiered, so I guess we can talk about it.
What do you think? Are you happy with music choices of your favorites and the overall trends? Whose choice impressed? Which one disappointed? What surprised and/or stood out of the crowd?

 

[4everchan]

the only thing that really bothers me.. is that in a year of tango rhythm for dance, so many single skaters still went that route. I love tangos. When done great, they are amazing on the ice.. So much power and flair. But, yeah... it should just be forbidden when the ice dancers do it... and the worst of the worst would be that ice dance team (don't remember which one) who did a tango as the FD...

The rest, for me, at this point, I am not too picky... Shoma and Conrad seem to have good program choices.. we will find out as the season evolves. It's really during GP that I get into the music part of skating, when the programs are more polished and the costumes are ready...

 

[Anna K.]

the only thing that really bothers me.. is that in a year of tango rhythm for dance, so many single skaters still went that route. I love tangos. When done great, they are amazing on the ice.. So much power and flair. But, yeah... it should just be forbidden when the ice dancers do it... and the worst of the worst would be that ice dance team (don't remember which one) who did a tango as the FD...

The rest, for me, at this point, I am not too picky... Shoma and Conrad seem to have good program choices.. we will find out as the season evolves. It's really during GP that I get into the music part of skating, when the programs are more polished and the costumes are ready...

Did they, really? Did an Ice dance team really do a tango FD in a tango year? They should officially lose points for doing so because they are not showing versatility.

The season is very... young at this point, that's true. But we have JGP and one thing that you can't take away from Juniors is that they have lots of interesting music choices. Not that I am devotedly watching all of JGP, this would be too time consuming, but from what I have seen there has been a lot of kids' party with pop and rock and alternative music. It's rather that those few mishap tangos stood out, well, not in a good way
But I will surely bring here also some picks that stood out in a good way later when the clips will appear on YouTube

 

[Anna K.]

Talking about Senior pre-season spoilers though... This one has been the biggest surprise yet. Never in my life I would expect Kazuki Tomono to pick Die Fledermaus nor could I imagine that it might suit him so well. And here he is turning it into a spectacular show number:

Kazuki Tomono - Die Fledermaus (2022 - 2023 Free Skate)

Kazuki Tomono - Die Fledermaus (2022 - 2023 Free Skate)Choreography by Misha Ge Kazuki tomono 2022 kazuki tomono die fledermaus kazuki tomono 2023

www.youtube.com

So good to talk about it just as about a music choice leaving aside all the supposed TES and other matters...

 

[chuckm]

Hate to say it, but I've been watching the JGPs and was dismayed to find so many men and women choosing tango music in a year when Tango is the Rhythm dance.

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!

 

[chuckm]

I recall seeing an old Sonja Henie movie (yes, she was a movie star, too!) where she skates to Die Fledermaus.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

*Vivien Papp has chosen music that suits her so well!
*Amber has chosen good music but the impact of the good music is lost in the free skate because of the reused, copy-paste choreography.
*Riverdance will probably become a warhorse soon enough. Or it could go the way of Seven Nation Army.

 

[yesterday]

I'd put up a list with the top 20 warhorses and just ban them for 5 years. There are so many pieces and the judges ear's could need some new stimulation (they can't mute). After those 5 years, the list would be opened again and another list with the warhorses of that last period goes into hibernation (in case there are some). Why 5 years? To prevent those "It's olympic season? I cannot afford to be original"-choices. Assuming such a change could only take place after an olympic cycle.

Some seasons without big warhorses could reduce this "overall positive impact" on PCS from certain music choices that may exist
That's just a dream and maybe it sounds mean- but you know that song, "Mean Dreams Are Made Of This"?

If we can prescribe music for RDs we can also prohibit others

 

[4everchan]

I'd put up a list with the top 20 warhorses and just ban them for 5 years. There are so many pieces and the judges ear's could need some new stimulation (they can't mute). After those 5 years, the list would be opened again and another list with the warhorses of that last period goes into hibernation (in case there are some). Why 5 years? To prevent those "It's olympic season? I cannot afford to be original"-choices. Assuming such a change could only take place after an olympic cycle.

Some seasons without big warhorses could reduce this "overall positive impact" on PCS from certain music choices that may exist
That's just a dream and maybe it sounds mean- but you know that song, "Mean Dreams Are Made Of This"?

If we can prescribe music for RDs we can also prohibit others

if they did this, the first year some warhorses would be available again, so many skaters would use them...

i don't like the idea of prohibiting music... there are enough rules in the sport... it is really up to the coaches and choreos to push for a variety here... some teams do that.

warhorses, i find can be very useful for young skaters to develop a style of their own later on... and i bet that's why they are so popular... an example that comes to mind is patrick chan : in the first part of his career, he did skate to poto, 4 seasons, aranjuez etc etc... none of this happened when he returned. He was older and his skating became even more personal.

 

[yesterday]

Youif they did this, the first year some warhorses would be available again, so many skaters would use them...

i don't like the idea of prohibiting music... there are enough rules in the sport... it is really up to the coaches and choreos to push for a variety here... some teams do that.

warhorses, i find can be very useful for young skaters to develop a style of their own later on... and i bet that's why they are so popular... an example that comes to mind is patrick chan : in the first part of his career, he did skate to poto, 4 seasons, aranjuez etc etc... none of this happened when he returned. He was older and his skating became even more personal.

Well, you don't know, 5 years is long so what makes warhorses attractive know could vanish and after this they are used, yes but not by "all" skaters. That also gives the younger ones the possibility to use them. If it's really necessary. And they always could use warhose #21, #22, #23,...

Yes there is some variety. But is it rewarded (enough)? And really, what about judges? Do they still listen to the music, is it (is a warhorse) influencing the score? There's a lot more to consider I'd say.

You could also drop another rule instead to not have too many (whatever this is).

 

[4everchan]

Well, you don't know, 5 years is long so what makes warhorses attractive know could vanish and after this they are used, yes but not by "all" skaters. That also gives the younger ones the possibility to use them. If it's really necessary. And they always could use warhose #21, #22, #23,...

Yes there is some variety. But is it rewarded (enough)? And really, what about judges? Do they still listen to the music, is it (is a warhorse) influencing the score? There's a lot more to consider I'd say.

You could also drop another rule instead to not have too many (whatever this is).

cut the first 20 warhorses out and then next 20 will just be doubly used... so it would be even more annoying...

Why do ballet companies perform nutcracker and swan lake so often?
Because they are masterpieces and popular with the largest audience.
Honestly, most of my friends who are not figure skating fans do not notice the music.. unless it's something completely quirky. They are already overwhelmed with just watching the jumping passes and the spins and trying to figure things out...
As relatively hardcore fans of the sport, and honestly, I would say we are hardcore considering the time we spend watching and discussing it, we sometimes become pickier and pickier... Some complain about warhorses, others complain about music cuts (that's me) and many now complain about covers...
So what is left?

I usually do not complain too much about music because I know that I have different ears than most. What I try to do is to see if the skaters care about what they are skating on. If they feel the rhythm and the highlights of the music. That's more important to me nowadays.

Having said that, I still stand firmly about what I said up there... too ... many... tangos this year.. .but then, I bet my mom would love that...

 

[chuckm]

Still and all, I much prefer warhorses to whiny pop ballads.

 

[yesterday]

cut the first 20 warhorses out and then next 20 will just be doubly used... so it would be even more annoying...

Why do ballet companies perform nutcracker and swan lake so often?
Because they are masterpieces and popular with the largest audience.

I know it's controversial
But having a list could also put mote attention on the subject and encourage variety so maybe people would think twice before just moving on to the next 20. I have hope

Because FS it is a sport, it needs new masterpieces on a regular basis, a theatre maybe not so much. For me, music and performance in FS are linked (or emphasized) differently than music and performance on a stage. Can't explain properly.

Maybe audiences for ballet are bigger than for FS? So they perform the same piece for a long time but in front of very different audiences compared to FS maybe? Or in other words - audience in FS is less volatile than in theatres? Just guessing.

Honestly, most of my friends who are not figure skating fans do not notice the music.. unless it's something completely quirky.

True, but how many warhorses are quirky?

They are already overwhelmed with just watching the jumping passes and the spins and trying to figure things out...
As relatively hardcore fans of the sport, and honestly, I would say we are hardcore considering the time we spend watching and discussing it, we sometimes become pickier and pickier... Some complain about warhorses, others complain about music cuts (that's me) and many now complain about covers...
So what is left?

What's left? Millions of music pieces, if you can adapt it, you can skate to everything. Allowing vocals opened a huge pool of possibilities. Outside of RDs you can skate to everything.

I usually do not complain too much about music because I know that I have different ears than most. What I try to do is to see if the skaters care about what they are skating on. If they feel the rhythm and the highlights of the music. That's more important to me nowadays.

Of course, that's also important but in case they can't I'd rather see them not paying attention to some "quirky" choice

Having said that, I still stand firmly about what I said up there... too ... many... tangos this year.. .but then, I bet my mom would love that...

That's undeniable

 

[yesterday]

Still and all, I much prefer warhorses to whiny pop ballads.

One does not exclude the other here - some of those ballads are warhorses (and the other way round).
But I'm sure there's lots of undiscovered interesting pieces out there that will make unique programs. In every genre.

 

[4everchan]

Because FS it is a sport, it needs new masterpieces on a regular basis, a theatre maybe not so much. For me, music and performance in FS are linked (or emphasized) differently than music and performance on a stage. Can't explain properly.

See.. this is where I disagree with your post... because FS is a sport, music is an accessory to it... just like it is in rhythmic gymnastic, floor exercise in artistic gymnastic for women as men do not even bother with the music at all, and artistic swimming for instance..

Talking so much about the music and costumes, whether it's ballads or warhorses, in my humble opinion, makes the sport more into the entertainment business... that's fine for shows and galas... BUT I certainly want the athletes to be judged on what they put on the ice.. and if that means a warhorse, then fine...

Look, one of the most contested ice dance olympic free dance was moonlight sonata against moulin rouge.... and though I do not like when people mess up with Beethoven or despise very much Moulin rouge...(especially that Roxane part) it was SUPER awesome... because the skating was awesome and the skating to these pieces was awesome.

This year, the Fauré for P/C was my ultimate favourite ever piece of music for ice dance... yet... many people complained about it... because it was so obscure...

 

[DancingCactus]

I simply wish there was less classical music and less of the 10 or so "modern warhorses". There are so many great soundtracks both from movies and especially from video games and a whole lot of rock and pop that has never been used and so many skaters always come back to the classical stuff. Someone like Shoma can use a classical piece and make it look special and fresh, but most skaters using classical music just bore me, because I don't feel anything of their own in the performance.
Also, I never want to hear any Janet Jackson anymore, but alas...

 

[4everchan]

^^ See, I prefer classical music .. not the warhorses necessarily though a good Aranjuez well done will never bore me...

Patrick CHAN - CDN Nat 12 - Free

WOW!Gorgeous skating edges, fills the ENTIRE rink with difficult choreography, transitions in between the elements...there's also some jumps thrown in there ...

youtu.be

The reaction of the audience is telling... I think I am not the only one who enjoys a well skated program, even a warhorse... as long as the performance is great and the choreography in synch with the music.. why not?

By the way, there have been threads about warhorse programs and/or music that "should be banned" for various reasons... Maybe it would be best to steer this thread back into what is happening right now

 

[Anna K.]

By the way, there have been threads about warhorse programs and/or music that "should be banned" for various reasons... Maybe it would be best to steer this thread back into what is happening right now

The thread you are talking about is already in the archives and can't be resurrected. However, it was posted exactly 5 years ago, so you can check it in the context of

I'd put up a list with the top 20 warhorses and just ban them for 5 years. There are so many pieces and the judges ear's could need some new stimulation (they can't mute). After those 5 years, the list would be opened again and another list with the warhorses of that last period goes into hibernation (in case there are some).

imagine all that was banned in 2016 and we got the whole bunch back this season

I agree with the opinion that it's not music that makes program a warhorse. It's the attitude of treating music as a warhorse and general lack of creativity and passion.
So, would you define Die Fledermaus as a workhorse choice? It's not out-of-the-blue original. It's been used by figure skaters all the way since Sonja Henie (as you can see here) But then, Kazuki just had to do it. He's interpreting it so well.

However, I still think that ISU could do more to promote variety of music and creativity. In example, they could give +GOE or higher PCS to dancers who can showcase tango steps/rhythm in non-tango music or otherwise reward music choices within the new Composition PCS category.

 

[yesterday]

The thread you are talking about is already in the archives and can't be resurrected. However, it was posted exactly 5 years ago, so you can check it in the context of

imagine all that was banned in 2016 and we got the whole bunch back this season

I agree with the opinion that it's not music that makes program a warhorse. It's the attitude of treating music as a warhorse and general lack of creativity and passion.
So, would you define Die Fledermaus as a workhorse choice? It's not out-of-the-blue original. It's been used by figure skaters all the way since Sonja Henie (as you can see here) But then, Kazuki just had to do it. He's interpreting it so well.

However, I still think that ISU could do more to promote variety of music and creativity. In example, they could give +GOE or higher PCS to dancers who can showcase tango steps/rhythm in non-tango music or otherwise reward music choices within the new Composition PCS category.

I don't know if Die Fledermaus is a good example or not. My "dream" is not about erasing music choices but to build awareness and open possibilities. You can't say "well, judges could give extre 2 points for creative music choices" or something like that because it's all the more subjective. But you can slightly push coaches etc. into a broarder direction.

Yes, that is part of what ISU could do. And as it would be just a small amount and available again, I don't feel like this would be a disadvantage for anyone but people waiting for royalties. Maybe after five years the pieces are not remembered so well and having more variety for all those years helps that not everyone will go back to them immediately.
Of course, it should not be the only measure, but it could be a part.

~everything still totally theoretical of course ~


And if you want to go one step further (or quite a few), you could also do a lottery of music pieces at the end of each season

 

[4everchan]

I tend to believe that teams are very aware of this... Do you really think that, if we fans, notice about music, the athletes and their teams do not? If I agree that there could be more variety out there, I just trust the skaters pick music because they or their team believe it's a good choice for them.

In other words, it's okay that we do not like some pieces as fans.. but I don't see the ISU coming up with rules encouraging a specific direction over another.