Lipnitskaya vs. Edmunds

[shine]

I feel something deeper with Yulia, a deeper connection to the artistry and the total package she presence on the ice. Polina is lovely and certainly has the jumps. Maybe it's just her physical make up but those long, gangly limbs which seem to flail rather than have purpose and meaning during her performance. I think both will have to deal with physical maturity over the next couple years. Polina may have an edge there with her height and long body lines and be able to carry the additional weight and curves. Maybe because I loved her Schindler's List LP last year, but I give the overall edge to Yulia with future expectations.

I disagree. I see gangliness in her arms but I don't see flailing. I also I think Polina uses her arms in a much more dancer/ballerina-like way than Yulia. Her SP from last season was a great example of how she uses them to accentuate and varies the interpretation. There's variation in the way she uses them as opposed to a single dimension. Once she gets past the awkward phase (which I don't think will be long), I believe they are going to make for very stunning presentation.

 

[Icey]

Was Carol Heiss' era technical demand as the current era, both in the Academy sense and FS sense? I would love to have a time machine to bring her to this era.

The technical demands Carol faced in her time were as difficult for her as the technical demands of today are for today's skaters. The sport advances, and it is hardly fair to condemn a skater from the past for not not doing what is being done today. Carol was the first female skater to land a double axel in competition.

 

[Meoima]

The technical demands Carol faced in her time were as difficult for her as the technical demands of today are for today's skaters. The sport advances, and it is hardly fair to condemn a skater from the past for not not doing what is being done today. Carol was the first female skater to land a double axel in competition.

I have no doubt about that. But for sure I highly doubt that Carol Heiss can archive all of her accomplishments in the past in both of her academic life and FS life IF she were put into the current era, the current system and into the position of someone like Yulia or even Polina. To Attend University, win multi international titles in FS, and graduate from college after the Olympic. All those stuff at the same time? That sounds almost surreal to top skaters nowadays. Even Patrick Chan has to take a year off so he can attend college!

 

[Amei]

Daring not to "scarify" most things in your life, hardly makes a skater or anyone unworthy of success. Where in the world did you come up with that kind of thinking? Full commitment to skating alone is not necessary. Skaters like Carol Heiss didn't go that route:
During her run of world titles, she also attended New York University, graduating after the 1960 Winter Olympics. Many skaters train excessively imo. If they would learn to train smart, they would not have to forego so many other things in their lives.

Didn't Christian Gao take a year off from Harvard to focus on her training last year.

Re Julia's mother and her not working since she moved to Moscow: Will they not allow her to work there for some reason?

Maybe it has something to do with the travel involved with Yulia's skating? I mean my parents wouldn't trust someone to take me to another country as a young 13-14 year old.

 

[starlight97]

Maybe it has something to do with the travel involved with Yulia's skating? I mean my parents wouldn't trust someone to take me to another country as a young 13-14 year old.

These days her mum is part of her team, but it wasn't always like that. Eteri says that she asked for this, since she felt it was a big task to be 'mother' and coach at the same time(remember Yulia's age and how young she was when she started internationally),
so she asked the federation if Yulia's mum could accompany them- and now she does.
No, it's not like she isn't allowed. Yulia said her mum gave up her job in Yekaterinburg and "in Moscow she had nothing". I could imagine that there was no time for her to work and now that she's part of the team this issue is kinda "solved".

 

[ice coverage]

Didn't Christian Gao take a year off from Harvard to focus on her training last year. ...

Re Christina Gao:
Her skating was more successful when she was juggling training with a full course load at Harvard.
Her competitive results did not improve when she took time off from her studies.

 

[chuckm]

Shes past her growth spurt. While most of these other girls aren't.

No young woman is past her growth spurt at age 15-16, especially when she has no sign of a womanly body like Yulia (no bust and no hips). Women rarely have just one growth spurt and just stop---they continue to continue to grow and mature in stages, sometimes up to the age of 21. Most but not all growth is visible, some is internal (bones and organs).

When Sasha Cohen was 15, she was 4'11" tall and had no bust and hips, but by the time she was 17, she was 5'2" and she DID have curves. Yulia is already 5'2" and she will probably grow a little taller and she will definitely fill out---it is inevitable, even if she restricts her diet and exercises heavily. She can delay bodily maturity, but she cannot prevent it from happening.

 

[Barb]

No young woman is past her growth spurt at age 15-16, especially when she has no sign of a womanly body like Yulia (no bust and no hips). Women rarely have just one growth spurt and just stop---they continue to continue to grow and mature in stages, sometimes up to the age of 21. Most but not all growth is visible, some is internal (bones and organs).

When Sasha Cohen was 15, she was 4'11" tall and had no bust and hips, but by the time she was 17, she was 5'2" and she DID have curves. Yulia is already 5'2" and she will probably grow a little taller and she will definitely fill out---it is inevitable, even if she restricts her diet and exercises heavily. She can delay bodily maturity, but she cannot prevent it from happening.

ok, these are not facts, what is your bibliography???

 

[Sandpiper]

No young woman is past her growth spurt at age 15-16, especially when she has no sign of a womanly body like Yulia (no bust and no hips). Women rarely have just one growth spurt and just stop---they continue to continue to grow and mature in stages, sometimes up to the age of 21. Most but not all growth is visible, some is internal (bones and organs).

When Sasha Cohen was 15, she was 4'11" tall and had no bust and hips, but by the time she was 17, she was 5'2" and she DID have curves. Yulia is already 5'2" and she will probably grow a little taller and she will definitely fill out---it is inevitable, even if she restricts her diet and exercises heavily. She can delay bodily maturity, but she cannot prevent it from happening.

Darn it, if only this were true. I don't think I grew an inch since I was 15.

 

[dorispulaski]

As chuckm said, not all the growth is visible, and height is not everything. Bone growth continues till the 30's in normal women, for example.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/osteoporosis/a-young-womans-guide-to-healthier-bones.aspx

 

[YLFan]

It simply hateful propaganda. No matter how much Yulia wins guys like this bash her. Then the second she isn't perfect its look she gained a pound and now fell. Its ridiculous.

The main growth period for a young skater is 14-15. Then it depends more on genentics, and then more growth as they enter adult hood. Since Yulia is going to retire when shes 19, theres really only 3.5 years left in her competitive career.

Its like Yulia has some sort of monopoly in growth with some people. Meanwhile Polina has a huge frame and is eating ice cream sundaes and can do no wrong.

 

[humbaba]

I also I think Polina uses her arms in a much more dancer/ballerina-like way than Yulia.

With her long limbs, Polina reminds me of Tanaquil LeClercq, the charter NYCB ballerina. Someone once said LeClercq could dance with both delicacy and attack. It will be interesting to see how Polina develops.

 

[dorispulaski]

There's no saying what will happen to either of these young people in the future.

I would not have projected Dan Zhang to grow so much in her 20's, for example. However, I hope Julia will not retire at 19! Has she said that she plans to retire then?

 

[chuckm]

It simply hateful propaganda. No matter how much Yulia wins guys like this bash her. Then the second she isn't perfect its look she gained a pound and now fell. Its ridiculous.

The main growth period for a young skater is 14-15. Then it depends more on genentics, and then more growth as they enter adult hood. Since Yulia is going to retire when shes 19, theres really only 3.5 years left in her competitive career.

Its like Yulia has some sort of monopoly in growth with some people. Meanwhile Polina has a huge frame and is eating ice cream sundaes and can do no wrong.

It is known that Yulia is on a strict diet and exercises constantly to keep her weight down---and by keeping her weight down, delay the onset of bodily maturity (aka boobs and hips). Whether or not this extreme strategy will work for her until she reaches her pre-determined "retirement" age of 19 remains to be seen. The odds are it won't. IIRC, Sasha Cohen seemed to be on a similar track early in her career, suffered a stress fracture to her back and had to take a year off......

Yes, genetics does determine body chemistry and obviously Lipnitskaia, Edmunds and Tuktamysheva all have different body chemistry. Elizaveta has struggled with her stocky body type ever since she went through the first stages of puberty and she is still struggling. Apparently Polina is one of those lucky people who can have a regular diet---including ice cream on occasion---and maintain her ideal weight, with normal exercise.

 

[karne]

I didn't grow an inch vertically after sixteen. (Aside: do you know how hard it is to buy jeans when you're 5'9" and 50kg wringing wet?)

But I grew outwards, got hips, boobs, and a butt.

Just because someone has finished growing upwards, doesn't mean they're done with growing in other areas.

 

[thoakun]

For a long time, I couldn't get my head around Mao's growth issues 2009-2012, as she didn't seem to grow an inch taller since 2009 and she still looked frail and thin. Your posts enlighten me. She must have developed in other areas which were not invisible, and any type of growth is bound to wreak havoc on one's jump abilities.

 

[YLFan]

My growth concerns.


Medvedeva - Hasn't gone thru her 14-16 growth spurt yet.

Radionova - Going on 16 but hasn't had much of a spurt yet.

Sotskova - Had her height growth spurt and has yet to perform with new height.

Amber Glen - Built very thick for a 14 year old skater. More filling out could really ruin her.

Gracie Gold - 19 now. Is her adult growth a cause of her inconsistency?

Polina Edmunds - Big frame, how much weight will go in it.

Karen Chen - Hasn't had her spurt yet.



Recent history of Russians after 14-15 growth spurt:

Sotnikova - various podiums and an Olympic gold medal

Yulia - dominant season

Pogorilaya - "4th" at Worlds and on two GP podiums

Lizt Tuk - Injuries, genetics, loss of confidence derailed her but had successes at 16

 

[karne]

But Yulia has not grown, that is what is confusing a lot of us about some posts. She has grown upwards, yes. But she has not had the rest of her growth.

Liza did not have any problems when she grew upwards. That was just before she was sixteen. After that, her body started to grow into a young woman's, and that was when the problems started.

There are two distinct periods of growth we are talking about here, and you are acting like they are exclusive of each other. Yulia got taller. She hasn't got hips yet.

It's not bashing or hating to say this will happen - because it happens to just about every single girl in the whole entire world, athlete or no.

 

[starlight97]

Since Yulia is going to retire when shes 19, theres really only 3.5 years left in her competitive career.

Really? Did she say that personally? If she'll really do so it will be a big waste. ..imagine if Kostner or Asada had quit at 19 hwell:

 

[therealwombatpoodle]

I didn't grow an inch vertically after sixteen. (Aside: do you know how hard it is to buy jeans when you're 5'9" and 50kg wringing wet?)

But I grew outwards, got hips, boobs, and a butt.

Just because someone has finished growing upwards, doesn't mean they're done with growing in other areas.

I have long passed puberty and I still don't have boobs or a butt worth speaking of. And yes, I'm a girl and I'm taller than average for my genetics. Some people are just flat-chested and butt-less and look like noodles. It's not that uncommon or shocking.