Lysacek announces return to competitive skating

[pangtongfan]

I was merely pointing out that the only reason the US had three spots for men in 2009 was because Weir medalled in 2008. Had he finished one place lower, the third US man - Lysacek, that year - would have had to miss Worlds. I don't particularly care who the US sends each year* and what their qualifying criteria is, but it should be noted that in addition to his bronze in 2008, Johnny had a better fall season than Evan (and Brandon Mroz) in 2008-9. BTW, Belbin and Agosto were given a medical bye for 2009 Nationals, even though Davis and White were looking equally strong at the time. The USFS, like many federations, is not above playing favorites.

* My favorite Americans that season were Abbott and Samuelson/Bates.

The USFSA would have just sent Lysacek to Worlds instead of Mroz in 2009 had their only been 2 spots. So no Evan would not have had to miss Worlds. I am pretty certain had Mroz come 3rd they would have given Weir a bye over Mroz as well, but 2nd to 5th was just too big a gap. It is hard to leave the U.S silver medalist of a 3 man team, so Mroz inching ahead of Evan changed everything as far as the World team selection. It has nothing to do with the USFSA hate-on for Johnny (which I agree they have, but I think in this case the decision had nothing to do with that).

 

[Buttercup]

The USFSA would have just sent Lysacek to Worlds instead of Mroz in 2009 had their only been 2 spots. So no Evan would not have had to miss Worlds. I am pretty certain had Mroz come 3rd they would have given Weir a bye over Mroz as well, but 2nd to 5th was just too big a gap. It is hard to leave the U.S silver medalist of a 3 man team, so Mroz inching ahead of Evan changed everything as far as the World team selection. It has nothing to do with the USFSA hate-on for Johnny (which I agree they have, but I think in this case the decision had nothing to do with that).

I agree that once Johnny finished 5th he shouldn't have gotten a pass. However, I think he should have asked for, and been granted, a medical bye before the event - like B/A. IIRC he said that he didn't believe he would get one so he never asked. I may be wrong though. Johnny may have been wrong about what the reaction to such a request would have been.

In 2009 Evan was not quite the golden boy, Olympic medal hope that he later became. Yes, his federation liked him - a lot - but he was three years removed from his last World medal and didn't even qualify for the GPF. Looking at the USFSA's usual MO, I think they might have gone with Mroz had there only been two spots. But it's all a bunch of hypotheticals. Blame the off-season. JGP starts this weekend, right? :yay:

 

[Tonichelle]

B/A withdrew because of Ben's back... not because travel had worn him down.

 

[Buttercup]

B/A withdrew because of Ben's back... not because travel had worn him down.

Weir got really sick in S. Korea, was hospitalized and lost a lot of weight (and consequent training time). I think that goes well beyond "worn down by travel", which all skaters can get, considering how spread out events are. The things is, it happened in South Korea but I'm not sure that necessarily implies it was because he went to South Korea - for all we know it could have been some bug he picked up in New Jersey. The GPF had been held in S. Korea just weeks earlier, and other than Brian Joubert's back, none of the men seemed to suffer any ill effects (I think a couple of ice dancers had food poisoning, though). He wasn't doing anything reckless that I'm aware of (travel a month before Nats =/= reckless) and if he was having medical problems, which it seems he was, he should have received the same degree of consideration others did/would have.

Why was Johnny's December gala an issue anyway? It was in-season but didn't conflict with any events, coming about a month before Nationals. Was he told not to go? I doubt he'd have gone so far as to directly disregard such a directive. And I don't recall the USFS taking issue with Lysacek skipping Worlds post-Olys to do Dancing With the Stars; I still don't get why "I'd rather do reality TV" was a valid reason and "I can't do some of my jumps for medical reasons so am not fit for competition" wasn't.

Again, maybe Johnny would have gotten a bye had he asked for one. I think that would have been fair. But he apparently didn't, and there's no point in criticizing his decision-making so long after the events in question.

 

[pangtongfan]

I dont think Johnny would have gotten a medical bye had he asked for one but I am also not sure if he should have. Abbott had by far the best season of any U.S man that year, and had won the GP final. Evan had not had a great season, but he had won the last 2 U.S titles and medaled at 2 of the last 3 Worlds he had been in (he missed 2008). So those are two skaters who were arguably (probably) seen above Johnny in the U.S hierarchy going into Nationals. While they had 3 spots, a bye is usually for someone considered one of your 1 or 2 dominant skaters like Michelle Kwan, Nancy Kerrigan, and Todd Eldredge when they received their medical byes. Then as it turned out you have a surprise like Mroz finishing 2nd, what would they have done had Johnny been promised a medical bye. Giving Johnny a bye not even competing over Evan whose credentials were arguably above Johnny's even at that point would have been a sticky situation for the USFSA, nor something I think they would have wanted to do. Giving Johnny not competing a bye over 2nd place finisher Mroz also would have created some controversy I imagine.


Then what if Mroz had won Nationals, he did nearly win the long program phase after all, what situation would they have been forced into then. Had they promised Johnny a medical bye they would have been forced to give someone who didnt compete a bye over the reigning 2 time U.S Champion and only multiple World medalist of current U.S men (Lysacek) or over that years GP final Champion (Abbott).

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

2009 is one of those years I wish ended up slightly differently just to see how thoroughly the "Nationals is the sole arbiter" dictum would've been followed. I do think that, in light of 2011, we have our answer though.

 

[skateluvr]

He's a Frank Carrol skater - only do what's needed, and don't mess with a working system...

Is this how you view Michelle Kwan? When I think of her, I think she really did not have an easy time of triple -triples. Her jumps were very good usually, but not rotated fast. Look at tara's smaller but quickly rotated jumps. MK likely never did triple loop/triple loop in practice. But 7 triple programs that span Salome at age 16 to "Lyra" the masterpiece the skating world recalls almost as much as T&D's Bolero (maybe more), to Song of the Black Swan to finally Tosca, filled with passion and difficult, fast footwork.

Only do what is needed? That I don't see. And maybe MK was to some extent a victim of her success, and that is why she sought out jump coaches and other choreographers later in her career. I think he is a great coach, and Lori a great choreographer. She was a jumping bean at 10 years old. What she became was very much their vision for her.

I see Evan as giving 100%. I think he was not confident he could do the quad in his Olympic program. At 6'2" it is amazing he skates as well and as fast as he does, rotating his jumps is far more difficult than say, Dai. I don't agree with your assessment of a "Frank Carroll" skater. From Frattiane to Kwan to Evan to Mirai, there have been perfect and wonderful performances.

 

[Tonichelle]

All I mean by it is that they're systematic. That's not a put down, or a praise, just a style of skating. They aren't the only ones. Scott Hamilton was another that didn't deviate much over his competitive career. Nor did Yagudin... if it works, you use it again. That doesn't mean they don't have their stand out moments - or that they aren't good... but it can be *predictable*.

Whether or not one sees that as "good" or "bad" is up to the individual.

 

[Jaana]

Weir got really sick in S. Korea, was hospitalized and lost a lot of weight (and consequent training time). I think that goes well beyond "worn down by travel", which all skaters can get, considering how spread out events are. The things is, it happened in South Korea but I'm not sure that necessarily implies it was because he went to South Korea - for all we know it could have been some bug he picked up in New Jersey.

Weir should have had sense enough not to travel to S. Korea with the Nationals being so close. But he did the trip, got sick and yes, lost a lot of training time needed for preparing for the Nationals. My strong guess is, IF he had gotten sick in NJ, USFSA would have shown sympathy. He took a big risk with his S. Korea trip and the result we know... 2009 Worlds would have been extremely important for him to participate and to skate well there, considering the approaching Olympics in 2010.

 

[skatefan12]

Apparently, Evan's injury isn't serious-Its a groin pull according to his agent.

 

[skateluvr]

Groin pull can be very bad, and limit all you do, esp if he is a lot of pain. I hope this does not negatively affect his comeback. I am looking forward to seeing him skate in competition after such a long time away.

 

[skatefan12]

Groin pull can be very bad, and limit all you do, esp if he is a lot of pain. I hope this does not negatively affect his comeback. I am looking forward to seeing him skate in competition after such a long time away.

I agree-I am looking forward to seeing him compete. I know groin pulls can be bad, but his agent said it didn't appear to be serious so maybe another week or two rest and then back on the ice?

 

[Tonichelle]

agents are supposed to put postitive spin on everything - this isn't the first time he's had this injury, so he's more apt to have another flare up

hopefully he can stay healthy from here on out.

 

[skatefan12]

agents are supposed to put postitive spin on everything - this isn't the first time he's had this injury, so he's more apt to have another flare up

hopefully he can stay healthy from here on out.

I was just happy it wasn't his hip-didn't he have recurring problems awhile back with it? Since he has had these programs for so long (with what happened last season), maybe it will help to rest his body for a bit before pushing it hard going into Skate America in October.

 

[Tonichelle]

his hip has been an issue since before 2005 Nationals... his knees, too... probably all because of his height...(I assume, as I'm not a medical know it all)

 

[skatefan12]

his hip has been an issue since before 2005 Nationals... his knees, too... probably all because of his height...(I assume, as I'm not a medical know it all)

Well, he is taller so its farther to fall before you splat (harder!) into the ice. Such is the life of a figure skater...

 

[janetfan]

his hip has been an issue since before 2005 Nationals... his knees, too... probably all because of his height...(I assume, as I'm not a medical know it all)

Don't forget the problems with stress fractures (quaditis) in his foot. They take a while to heal and can also be a recurring problem.

 

[Tonichelle]

Don't forget the problems with stress fractures (quaditis) in his foot. They take a while to heal and can also be a recurring problem.

yeah pretty much from the waist down he's a walking/skating accident waiting to happen. But I think he'll do just fine - provided none of these injuries flare up... which I'm crossing my fingers he stays healthy once the season starts in earnest.

 

[silverlake22]

I wonder if Lyasecek's comeback will actually materialize. He's going to need the quad to be competitive most likely, with the rate all these youngsters keep going for it, and I just don't know if his body can handle the burdens of training anymore. He's always been injury prone, he is really tall for the sport, and he isn't getting younger. I mean, he's already won Worlds, the GPF, and the Olympics, what more is he trying to win? And honestly, his chances of repeating as any of those things is pretty slim at this point given his history with the 3a and 4t and what the current men are putting out on the ice.

 

[Tonichelle]

according to one of his latest interview, he's not focusing strictly on winning. Sounds like he's got a pretty good idea of what he's capable of.