Male skaters skating to music sung by female vocalists

[ice coverage]

I'm still hoping the "Off Topic" meme will return because this question is off topic. Does anyone have the video of Joshua Farris singing and playing his guitar? I know I saw it somewhere but I can't find it......Thank You in advance

Please see the OP of the Fan Fest thread for Josh.
Scroll down to the section for "Articles and other media," which has the link to @sabinfire's video, "Joshua Farris guitar fluff - 2015 U.S. Nationals."

(Although I can think of two brief "candid" videos of Josh's singing/guitar-playing from other times/places/sources years ago, they have been taken down. The links for those two other videos also can be found within Josh's fan thread, but they do not work anymore.)

Josh's fan thread would be a great place to post any future questions about him. Over there, they would be on topic.

 

[mrrice]

Please see the OP of the Fan Fest thread for Josh.
Scroll down to the section for "Articles and other media," which has the link to @sabinfire's video, "Joshua Farris guitar fluff - 2015 U.S. Nationals."

(Although I can think of two brief "candid" videos of Josh's singing/guitar-playing from other times/places/sources years ago, they have been taken down. The links for those two other videos also can be found within Josh's fan thread, but they do not work anymore.)

Josh's fan thread would be a great place to post any future questions about him. Over there, they would be on topic.

 

[mikeko666]

In my opinion, it is the lyrics that matter - if the song is very strongly first person gender-specific, then it does feel a little funny seeing the other gender doing it (one example that has stuck in my mind is Daisuke Takahashi doing Björk's Batchelorette as a show program). And sometimes even with those you can stretch the interpretation to come from the other side depending slightly on what the lyrics are about.

What I do find funny is how this mixing of gendered roles has never been a problem with classical music. I think a vast majority of Carmen cuts for male skaters include Habanera which is one of Carmen's arias (though the topic is generally about love). Don Jose's Flower aria is one of the most beautiful lyrical pieces of that opera, but it has not been used in men's programs - Tarasova used it to choreograph a lyrical section for Sasha Cohen's Carmen program (which was kind of amusing also IMO). The most commonly used bits of Tosca are mostly from the men, and for example Tosca's Vissi d'arte has really not been used - except recently in Satoko Miyahara's FS (and sung by Callas). Not to mention all the male swans etc.

I have been surprised how rarely the classical warhorses based on sung music have been used with lyrics after they were allowed in 2014.

E

Daisuke's Bachelorette has been one of my absolute favorites of all time. I was surprised and delighted by the dark gothic sensuality of his performance, which was/is rarely seen in figure skating. He didn't look feminine at all, but looked like something out of this world to me.

 

[eppen]

Daisuke's Bachelorette has been one of my absolute favorites of all time. I was surprised and delighted by the dark gothic sensuality of his performance, which was/is rarely seen in figure skating. He didn't look feminine at all, but looked like something out of this world to me.

No, I don't think that Daisuke was in any way feminine doing this piece - my point was that the lyrics are sung by a woman and it starts "I'm a fountain of blood / In the shape of a girl". And it continues in first person, the "me" is clearly a woman and so, at least I start wondering what is Daisuke's role in this? It he portraying the "me", the woman, in the song or what is he doing? There is also a vague "you" in the lyrics and so maybe this? But who is the "you"? Björk herself has said that this is a sort of a follow-up to "Isobel" and she addresses all the loves/lovers she/Isobel has had, but lyrics are ofc always open to different interpretations.

However, IMO the choreo takes the song as if it did not have lyrics, as if it is just instrumental music. That I also find very irritating - the words in the song are as significant as the music is and their content should be part of the choreo in some way. (But NO, I don't want to see bits and pieces from the lyrics mimed, that is just a huge no-no, the worst kind of unoriginality from the choreographer.)

There are pieces of music that are so strongly connected with characters or certain stories (like Carmen or Romeo and Juliet) that they do not get used in other ways. The lyrics IMO work the same way, they cannot be ignored and their meaning should be considered when the choreo is made.

E

 

[Rina RUS]

Podolskaya was singing for Maxim Kovtun, but they were a kind of duet, because she was singing: “Hey, seaman! You’ve been sailing for too long – I’ve managed to forget you!”
(if this video works for you)
https://www.1tv.ru/shows/koncerty/v...yany-tarasovoy-fragment-vypuska-ot-12-03-2017

Yagudin had such songs too.
Mariam Merabova sings. (the song is about work of an actor – she sings: “I/ me”)

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

“The Aborted Flight” is written by Vysotski (Vysotski is a man), but I hear a woman’s voice. I found a text saying that they took a cover by Elena Kamburova (she sings: “he”)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tls3Yc_g-ok&t=82s
This comic number is almost single skating too. The singer is a woman (Alla Pugachova). In the beginning it is like a story about him: “Once there was a king…” Later she sings another song: “my teachers had been just losing their time with me”. Actually, this song is about a boy (the verbs show the gender: for example, in Russian language the verb “did” is “delala” for a girl or a woman, but it is “delal” for a boy or a man). So the singer was pretending to be a boy (in this song). She sang this song not for this skating number.

2007 Tarasova's Show Alexei Yagudin & Marat Basharov

www.youtube.com

As for girls…
Ksenia Melkumova ("Crack of Doom")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1xAftGyM88&t=38s

Here the singer is a woman (Pelageya), but this is a song of a warrior
Elizaveta Kulikova (“It is not night yet”)

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Han yan also skated to A thousand years. This was female vocals and one of the best programs I have ever seen.

 

[readernick]

Han yan also skated to A thousand years. This was female vocals and one of the best programs I have ever seen.

It was his glide across the ice that made it fabulous. But, I enjoyed that program a great deal.

 

[eppen]

Han yan also skated to A thousand years. This was female vocals and one of the best programs I have ever seen.

He used a version by Boyce Avenue with a guy singing. But I agree, it is a good one. Yan Han is one of the few current skaters who has actually gotten better with time and experience.

I was also thinking of one comment posted above about judges not liking men singing in ice dance - I mean, there is always a man and a woman in an ice dance team and so I don't know how it could make a difference if a man or a woman sang in their music?

The language used could also be important with regard to how well the vocals (male or female) and the lyrics work - the Russian examples were intended for Russian audiences where there probably would be no problem in everyone getting the meanings. If the lyrics are not in your own language, they are likely to be easier to ignore completely by everyone involved. However, sometimes you do get rather strange interpretations from native speakers, like this exhibition by Meryl Davis and Charlie White - Michael Jackson's Billie Jean which is most certainly not a romantic song done as such basically completely ignoring the lyrics.

About 60 % of the programs are now being made to music with vocals and ice dancers do it even more frequently - 78 % of the free dances are with vocals. In 2013-4 right before they were allowed for all, about 55 % of free dances used vocals. The new rules were experimented with fairly carefully as only about 30 % of the 2014-5 programs were with vocal music. It will be interesting to see whether vocal music will get even more common then the current 60 %. (And this is for junior and senior skaters in ISU ranking lists, about 1200-1300 programs for each mentioned season.)

E

 

[MaHa75]

One russian coach once told me that there is unwritten rules that ladies should skate with ladies singing and mens by man singiing...i thought that is stupid But seems that lot of skaters follow it

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

He used a version by Boyce Avenue with a guy singing. But I agree, it is a good one. Yan Han is one of the few current skaters who has actually gotten better with time and experience.

I was also thinking of one comment posted above about judges not liking men singing in ice dance - I mean, there is always a man and a woman in an ice dance team and so I don't know how it could make a difference if a man or a woman sang in their music?

The language used could also be important with regard to how well the vocals (male or female) and the lyrics work - the Russian examples were intended for Russian audiences where there probably would be no problem in everyone getting the meanings. If the lyrics are not in your own language, they are likely to be easier to ignore completely by everyone involved. However, sometimes you do get rather strange interpretations from native speakers, like this exhibition by Meryl Davis and Charlie White - Michael Jackson's Billie Jean which is most certainly not a romantic song done as such basically completely ignoring the lyrics.

About 60 % of the programs are now being made to music with vocals and ice dancers do it even more frequently - 78 % of the free dances are with vocals. In 2013-4 right before they were allowed for all, about 55 % of free dances used vocals. The new rules were experimented with fairly carefully as only about 30 % of the 2014-5 programs were with vocal music. It will be interesting to see whether vocal music will get even more common then the current 60 %. (And this is for junior and senior skaters in ISU ranking lists, about 1200-1300 programs for each mentioned season.)

E

I agree to disagree on the Davis/White reference. Their Billie Jean (cover sung by David Cook) exhibition is one of their best and one of my favs, they also were not depicting romance but anti-romance or romance gone wrong which does go along the lines of the lyrics.

 

[eppen]

I agree to disagree on the Davis/White reference. Their Billie Jean (cover sung by David Cook) exhibition is one of their best and one of my favs, they also were not depicting romance but anti-romance or romance gone wrong which does go along the lines of the lyrics.

The lyric is about a woman claiming that the "I" in the song is the father of her child and he is refuting it, however, some of the bits suggest that there might have been sth going on, but a certain ambiguity remains. The text is pretty confrontational and she is the aggressive one. I watched it again, and IMO it mostly seems like they're merely interpreting the music and ignoring the story in the song.

But I am always curious to see what makes us interpret things often in very different ways - could you perhaps explain which bits are specifically non-romantic in your view?

E

 

[LiamForeman]

In Fact, it was Madonna's "Vogue" that became the controversary that season. It is said that "Voguing" was invented in Gay Clubs and that's why many men used it for Solo's. It was also very popular in the Ladies event as well. I remember a judge saying "I question if a Male dancer should use such an Obviously Feminine piece of music." I knew it was about to get ugly in the judges room

This thread starting me thinking about acceptable gender roles in the performing arts. Is it okay for a male singer/dancer/skater to sing a traditionally "female" song? I'm a huge fan of Linda Eder and I could see me skate to some of her greats. But should I? Would it make people uncomfortable? (Just a theoretical question. I don't care if I make anyone uncomfortable due to their own hangups). I think a song like Whitney's One Moment in Time could be used by any gender. Hmm, I guess it just depends on the song...

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The lyric is about a woman claiming that the "I" in the song is the father of her child and he is refuting it, however, some of the bits suggest that there might have been sth going on, but a certain ambiguity remains. The text is pretty confrontational and she is the aggressive one. I watched it again, and IMO it mostly seems like they're merely interpreting the music and ignoring the story in the song.

But I am always curious to see what makes us interpret things often in very different ways - could you perhaps explain which bits are specifically non-romantic in your view?

E

I know the song by heart and what Michael Jackson was talking about and same with the cover obviously. It's one of my favorites since the original in the 80s. As a choreographer there's only so much you can do with this music, parts of it are going to look "romantic" to those that interpret as yourself does, because again, a choreographer would have to show her pursuing him, which may and will sometimes look to the untrained eye as an interpretation of "romance." I guarantee you it is not to be interpreted as "romance."

They start out mingling, and the rest of the program interprets a man who is trying to push away/deter a woman from his life (or as Lady Gaga would sing "bad romance.") It was not smoochy romantic like many an ice dance program. They did the best they could at interpreting the situation in the music and so on. At this rate, the only way to interpret it outright would include her chasing him around the rink for the entire 3 mins or whatever the time was with a paternity test. LOL I mean, seriously, there are only so many ways to interpret something the way they did on the ice through choreography (which ice choreo is more restrictive than many think, floor choreo lends itself to these things better). I think Meryl and Charlie did a great job.

I want to add though that there is more off the wall ways to interpret music through choreography on ice, but many shun it or think it's too odd.

 

[mrrice]

This thread starting me thinking about acceptable gender roles in the performing arts. Is it okay for a male singer/dancer/skater to sing a traditionally "female" song? I'm a huge fan of Linda Eder and I could see me skate to some of her greats. But should I? Would it make people uncomfortable? (Just a theoretical question. I don't care if I make anyone uncomfortable due to their own hangups). I think a song like Whitney's One Moment in Time could be used by any gender. Hmm, I guess it just depends on the song...

Have a look at this Dance Team from Minnesota. They used a male soundtrack but, it was not a well known song and I think that helps because people have no pre-conceived ideas of what the program should look like...

University of Minnesota Dance Team Jazz 2019

2019 D1A JAZZ NATIONAL CHAMPIONSChoreography: Mackenzie Larkin Symanietz & Amanda GainesCostume: Elle Bauer DesignsMusic: Your Day Will Come - Son Lux*******...

www.youtube.com

 

[eppen]

I know the song by heart and what Michael Jackson was talking about and same with the cover obviously. It's one of my favorites since the original in the 80s. As a choreographer there's only so much you can do with this music, parts of it are going to look "romantic" to those that interpret as yourself does, because again, a choreographer would have to show her pursuing him, which may and will sometimes look to the untrained eye as an interpretation of "romance." I guarantee you it is not to be interpreted as "romance."

They start out mingling, and the rest of the program interprets a man who is trying to push away/deter a woman from his life (or as Lady Gaga would sing "bad romance.") It was not smoochy romantic like many an ice dance program. They did the best they could at interpreting the situation in the music and so on. At this rate, the only way to interpret it outright would include her chasing him around the rink for the entire 3 mins or whatever the time was with a paternity test. LOL I mean, seriously, there are only so many ways to interpret something the way they did on the ice through choreography (which ice choreo is more restrictive than many think, floor choreo lends itself to these things better). I think Meryl and Charlie did a great job.

I want to add though that there is more off the wall ways to interpret music through choreography on ice, but many shun it or think it's too odd.

Cool, thanks!! Now you also made me watch it for the 3rd time in about as many days (and I really am not a great ice dance fan...). Yeah, I think if I am very generous, I can see that avoidance thingy in the latter part (a couple of moves that cover maybe 10 seconds of the whole performance). But you really have to watch it very carefully to catch them and, as I said, interpret their performance very liberally and be very nice about it. The end with Meryl bending over him almost tenderly does not really match the message in the lyrics, does it? That girl in the song was aggressive and confrontational and it does not sound like she was looking for actual continuation of the relationship.

The version of Billie Jean they're using is IMO much better for FS (nice build-up towards a dramatic end, quite a lot of rhytmic and melodic variation to accompany the movement) than the original which was great for the dance floor but maybe would have not made an interesting program (not enough variation rhytmically or otherwise). I wonder who did this as could not find a name, I guess Zoueva/Shipilband?

The drama in the music is somewhat taken into consideration in structuring the choreo, the elements are placed at highlights and work with the building towards the end. But the attempt at storytelling is really minimal and ignores most of the key points in the lyrics. What I still see is a pretty much cookie-cutter ice dance exhibition piece using some of their big elements wound together with some generic transitions. They execute well ofc, but do not really give it much passion. IMO this was a lost chance for making a dramatic and dymanic program with a storyline.

I also remembered that I had heard the song again recently - it was used in Ilia Malinin's SP and quite unsuccessfully also there IMO especially when it comes to using music, movement and lyrics to actually make a good choreo. Not to mention that the skater is a 16-17 year-old boy and the lyrics are what they are. Hope Ilia does not get himself into that kind of trouble. (Also, in 2021 using that kind of he said/she said lyric is perhaps not the best idea even if it is a classic song.)

E

 

[TontoK]

I hadn't even considered this to be a "thing." As in, "who would care?" Maybe some people do.

I will say that the same song can give a completely different vibe, depending on whether it is sung by a man or a woman.

Case in point: Listen to Desperado by both Linda Ronstadt and the Eagles. Same song, same cadence... but the feeling is different, and I would imagine the interpretation of each would make for different programs. The Eagles version feels like "Bro Advice" and the Ronstadt version feels like "Longing for a Lost Love."