Ok. If you are saying she didint deserve the title based on her fall, then I say no one should have won that title cuz no lady in that competition was fall-free. (whether in SP or LP). PCS score means overall quality of the program which actually suggests the potential scoring of the program as well. That's why skaters who perform easier programs won't have higher PCS scores even when they skate cleanly than those whose have more difficult programs but do not skate cleanly. I guess reputation counts too~~ and in 2008, Mao had an edge over Yuna in that. But hey now Yuna's time has come and she has the highest PCS, so it's even.
Mao Asada's SP backup plan
- Thread starter miki88
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It was controversial only because Yukari Nakano laydown 7 triples program, with a 3A. Mao missed the 3A, but she did nail both triple-triple (3F+3T and 3F+3Lo). The first 3F+3T was fully rotated and given credit and only the second triple-triple was downgraded. But her PCS did deserved the highest of the night, despite the opening fall.
The only controversial should have been between Kostner and Nakano. Which one you should give medal too: 7 triples program with so many messy landings (step out, touchdown) or with 2 underrotated jumps?
This goes to show that under CoP era, you can't mess up in the SP. In 2007, Mao also made mistakes in SP and placed 5th, but came back strong in LP to win the silver. Similar case for Yuna, although she deserves the silver rather than bronze. In regards to Joannie, her skating is still not to my taste; she's just not graceful on ice oh well.
I figured as much.
Okay, Sonia Bianchetti is wonderful and all, but basing you decision on her opinion is basing it on someone who has clearly demonstrated a lot of Yu-Na favoritism.
Also note that Sonia said that Yu-Na might have won. We can do all the speculation in the world we want, but in the end it is widely agreed that Mao won rightfully. We can guess at any competition we can say "So-and-so's scores were inflated!" or "So-and-so would have won if they got the scores they deserved!" but in the end, it won't change a thing.
Mao got a high PCS because of the musicality of her transitions and the overall quality in her skating that was just superb.
Mao was on that night and deserved to win in the same way that Yu-Na was on at the 2009 Worlds and deserved to win then. :yes:
Anyway, I think it's great she has some sort of cushion in case things go wrong, as they have seemed to this season. I think it's wonderful if all top skaters have this sort of plan so their program isn't completely ruined if they miss one combo pass.
LOL! I didn't base my opinion on Sonia's assessment. Sonia basically broke down Mao's mistakes for me as I didn't see the program component sheet for her World's performance. Her 2 edge calls and her DG on her 3X3, along with her faceplant on her 3A would have been deducted severely by today's judging standards, and as result would be out of medal contention. Look at Mao now, she's making the same misktakes and recently she placed out of medal contention at Worlds and didn't even qualify for GPF. It's ridiculous that Mao fans should think that her problems just arose recently, since it's obvious that she always had jump problems except judges looked the other way in the past.
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This goes to show that under CoP era, you can't mess up in the SP. In 2007, Mao also made mistakes in SP and placed 5th, but came back strong in LP to win the silver. Similar case for Yuna, although she deserves the silver rather than bronze. In regards to Joannie, her skating is still not to my taste; she's just not graceful on ice oh well.
I think you are actually right about CoP. I also think about Alissa, the two times she went to worlds she had a very rough time in the SP, then did solidly in the FS, but still didn't finish well. That's why I'm worried for Alissa at nats this year and if she makes the Olympics. This season, she has become a SP skater, but it seems like when the pressure is high, she messes up the SP. Her FS is usually not so strong, with a fall or two and two to three URs being her standard, so if she messes up in the SP, it's going to be hard to pull up in the FS.
The other thing about Mao, if she's worried about the 3a in the SP, she should be worried about in the LP too. If she can't get either 3a ratified in the FS she'll only be on the podium if it's a splatfest. Even last year at worlds when she landed both of the 3a's in the LP, she was off the podium. I'm worried.
Yukari also has the leg wrap that judges hate. Has there ever been a lady who medaled at Worlds with that technique? Also, Yukari only had a 3X2 in SP. She tried to make up the points with 3A and 3X3 in the FS, both of which received DG/
How does one nail a 3X3 if it's UR? Also, that wasn't her only mistake in her FS, Mao also had an edge call on her 3Lz, along with the faceplant on her 3A. Yet she received the highest PCS.
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No, and I think that's the sole reason Caroline Z. always gets SP scores in the 50s regardless of how well she does. Yukari, like Caroline has beautiful spins, but bad technique translates to bad GOEs and that will keep you behind the top tier of skaters.
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Are you kidding?? Mao did get slapped severely for all her mistakes. -3 GOE + 1 point deduction for the fall, -2 GOE each for her both flutz and her 3+3 not only got <, also get slapped with -GOE. Her score from both 2008 and 2009 are almost in the same 180+ range. She double her Lutz in SP and fall on the second triple, and also no triple lutz in the LP. She always judges the same way since COP rules got tighten after 2007W. It just she is falling and poping jumps more than she used too.
Getting a bit repetitious here--you must have said this about five or six times already.
Mao did not single her lutz in the SP. She got a deduction for her edge call on her 3lutz in both the SP and LP. She also got a deduction for UR on the back jump of her 2nd 3/3 in the LP and also got a deduction for the fall in the LP.
In the LP, YuNa singled her lutz and had trouble with the salchow. Both ladies landed 4 clean triples. What gave YuNa the nod in the TES mark was she received 4 Level 4's and 2 Level 3's for non-jump elements. Mao had a level 1 on her spiral, and 2 Level 4's, 3 Level 3's.
There was no clean cut winner of that World Championships. Mao won because she was a little better overall when combining both portions. YuNa had a subpar SP, and a pretty good LP, but it was far from clean. Had she not fallen on the 3lutz in the SP or managed better levels on non-jump elements, OR had she not singled her lutz in the LP, she would've easily made up the 2.33 points that separated her from Mao and won Gold.
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Figure88. It is interesting you use Sonia Bianchetti's article to back your arguments, because the lady has a lot of respect for Mao's skating, even if she believes Yuna should have won. This is from her article.
"The next was Mao Asada, from Japan. She hit all of her jumps easily, seeming to fly above the ice before making her rotations. Her triple flip/triple loop combination, triple Lutz and double Axel were all gorgeous although she had an edge call in the triple Lutz. Her spins and the spiral sequence were beautiful and, on the whole, she gave a lovely elegant performance"(Bianchetti).
On the other hand, you don't seem to see any or at least little merit in Mao's skating and even going far to say she should be out of medal contention with her mistakes. Anyways, I don't think Ms.Sonia would agree with you on that.
I agree with Silverlake about Mao's LP programs, but I think she probably will have a backup plan for that as well. Makes no sense to have one for SP and not the other. Or she is not worried about landing her 3A but just to be safe in her SP? We'll see in 4CC.
"The next was Mao Asada, from Japan. She hit all of her jumps easily, seeming to fly above the ice before making her rotations. Her triple flip/triple loop combination, triple Lutz and double Axel were all gorgeous although she had an edge call in the triple Lutz. Her spins and the spiral sequence were beautiful and, on the whole, she gave a lovely elegant performance"(Bianchetti).
On the other hand, you don't seem to see any or at least little merit in Mao's skating and even going far to say she should be out of medal contention with her mistakes. Anyways, I don't think Ms.Sonia would agree with you on that.
I agree with Silverlake about Mao's LP programs, but I think she probably will have a backup plan for that as well. Makes no sense to have one for SP and not the other. Or she is not worried about landing her 3A but just to be safe in her SP? We'll see in 4CC.
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^^ Mao did get hammered for her mistakes in 2008, it was Carolina who didn't. Whenever the European ladies are relatively clean and manage to not double all their jumps, judges get excited and give them huge scores. Try to deny it but we've seen this happen with Kiira, Laura, and Carolina numerous times. They are held to a different standard whether it's fair or not. They have good edging but I'm pretty sure that shouldn't make that big of a difference.
In CoP, the SP counts for more than it did in 6.0. Also, SP scores have gotten higher over the years and this makes it harder for someone to do well if they mess up in the SP, no matter how good their FS is. SP scores used to be in the 50s range, 60's if you had a really difficult combo or were one of the top skaters in the world, but now we have Yuna getting 76, and a whole slew of ladies scoring in the 60s without a 3-3.
In CoP, the SP counts for more than it did in 6.0. Also, SP scores have gotten higher over the years and this makes it harder for someone to do well if they mess up in the SP, no matter how good their FS is. SP scores used to be in the 50s range, 60's if you had a really difficult combo or were one of the top skaters in the world, but now we have Yuna getting 76, and a whole slew of ladies scoring in the 60s without a 3-3.
Look at her 2007-8 GPF performance. I don't think a fall is that uncharacteristic for her. Mao has never pulled off a clean program. It seems there is at least one fall in either SP or FS.
Correction: Yuna landed 5 triples in her FS, not 4. So, based on your assessment, she should have won.
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Probably even more so under the old 6.0 system
Figure88 said:
Yu-Na got a -GOEs on her salchow after a sloppy, low landing. Mao received credit for a rotated 3lutz, she also was hit by an "e" call, so in that case, BOTH received credit for rotating 5 triples.
Personally, I didn't think either girls LP was one of those "once in a lifetime" gold winning performances. I would rather the one without falls win out every time, but it's now a point system where the total of all the parts win out, despite mistakes. YuNa deserved to win the LP based on what was seen that night. But when you add in the SP, Mao came out ahead despite her mistakes.
I really don't have a dog in this fight! I like both girls a lot and would LOVE to see them go 1-2 at Olys.
Midori Ito.
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Yuna's credit for landing 5 triples in her FS is mentioned in Banchiett's article, and I think that is based on her the protocols. I don't know why you would include a jump that had an obvious edge problem. Even if it's rotated, she didn't execute it properly. That's a bit of stretching to favor Mao's position.
Personally, I don't think winning the Worlds should have come to judges deciding it down to PCS scores. It's obvious that if Mao would have been judged by today's judging standards, she would not have won the gold because her PCS would have been butchered.
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It was the combined total of both SP & LP; not just PCS scores. And I don't remember there being such an outcry of controversy at the decision. Maybe you need to get over it already?
It came down to PCS scores because Mao won by only a little over than a 2 point difference.
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If people are going to get mad about that, how about they get mad about this year's skate Canada where Mirai got pushed off the podium because Joannie, Alissa, and Laura were given humongous PCS scores for their crappy long programs. Or how about last year at US nationals, where Caroline, Rachael, and Alissa all had FS scores within 2 points of each other and Caroline and Rachael landed 7 triples and Alissa only landed 3. Or how about how Kiira Korpi won silver at CoC with her LP with 3 triples? Or Lysacek for that matter, who has been winning everything recently and has a funky 3a and won't even attempt a quad. WINNING NOW ALMOST ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO PCS.
That's the sad truth.:scowl:
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