"Mao Hype" Begins in Earnest - new AP story (Dec. 28)

[*~RussianBleux~*]

In my theory, Japanese federation wanted Fumie to win because of their point system. Prior to the nationals, Miki was in the lead, then Nakano, Onda, Arakawa.. and I believe Fumie was in the last. In order for her points to put ahead of Onda and Nakano, Fumie was needed to win that event and Nakan must be placed behind Onda. After watching Onda's performace she did wonderfully but still her marks seem too inflated. Nakano was much better imo yet her score was put behind Onda. Something was very fishy about entire judging to me.

Thanks for the info. I agree that there was probably something going on. That's probably why Miki was placed last out of the top contenders; she was already in 1st and had the points to spare. I wonder what they would have done if Fumie totally flopped though, or if any of the skaters skated a program that placed them obviously out of their previously designated positions. It's also kind of sad that skating has come to this..it's obvious that the NJS hasn't solved all of the problems and that unfair placements and judging scandals will probably continue right along in the sport.

Where was this competition televised?

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Maybe beating a perfect Fumie is more difficult than beating a perfect Irina?

That WOULD make sense lol....

However, If this were true, then wouldn't Fumie be more of a contender to challenge Irina in Turin? As of now, it seems as if Sasha will be her only challenger at the games, and she'll have to bring the performance of her life to even have a shot at doing that.

There was definitely some "cheating" going on at those nationals as previously mentioned I'm sure.

 

[sk8addict]

Mao

I'm not saying your favorite, if she wins the Olys didn't deserve the medal. What I am saying is that Mao is not permitted to compete in the 2006 Olys. It is a slippery sport and your favorite may not win anyway.

Joe

Hey, lets just wait & see if she can jump with T&A. They can't keep her at 86 pounds forever. Lapinsky couldn't skate a year after her medal, neither could Sarah. Why are we still having to watch Kerrigan after all these years. Where have all the skaters gone?

 

[skatingfan5]

Why exactly didn't she win the Japanese Nationals? It sounds as if she did everything perfectly(at least in the long program) and she beat a perfect Irina in the long program. I'm sure Fumie was perfect in the long as well, but Mao easily beat a perfect Irina. What was so difficult about her being able to beat a perfect Fumie?

Mao wasn't "perfect" -- and she didn't win Nationals for several reasons -- one of which is that despite landing two triple axels, base value for jumps actually decreased from 47.1 at GPF to 44.6 at Nats. She didn't have a three jump combo, with the bonus of it being in the second half of her program. Her spins were not up to her best either -- Fumie clearly had the edge there -- also on steps. So Mao's overall performance wasn't up to the level it was at the GPF (missing the double axel in the SP was a shocker). Her triple axels were marvelous -- amazing actually, but she skated much better at the GPF than she did at Nationals. She stated that her goal was to land the two triple axels -- rather than focusing on the title. Fumie had one of the skates of her life -- more amazing to me considering how much she struggled earlier this season when she was recovering from her injury and how much was on the line for her because of that.

 

[sk8addict]

National's judges

In my theory, Japanese federation wanted Fumie to win because of their point system. Prior to the nationals, Miki was in the lead, then Nakano, Onda, Arakawa.. and I believe Fumie was in the last. In order for her points to put ahead of Onda and Nakano, Fumie was needed to win that event and Nakan must be placed behind Onda. After watching Onda's performace she did wonderfully but still her marks seem too inflated. Nakano was much better imo yet her score was put behind Onda. Something was very fishy about entire judging to me.

If you think Japanese judges seem fishy, wait until you see what happens at US Nationals. I leave there every year with a sore throat from having to BOO the obvious bad judging. Last year it was most obvious with the Pairs. USFSA thought only the world judges had a problem. They were WAY WRONG!!

 

[qoo]

Where was this competition televised?

Japanese TV asahi aired it and I downloaded their clips from skating video site and USFSA site at http://board.usfigureskating.org/default.asp?action=9&read=14007&fid=107

 

[orchid]

That WOULD make sense lol....

However, If this were true, then wouldn't Fumie be more of a contender to challenge Irina in Turin? As of now, it seems as if Sasha will be her only challenger at the games, and she'll have to bring the performance of her life to even have a shot at doing that.

There was definitely some "cheating" going on at those nationals as previously mentioned I'm sure.

I believe Fumie IS a contender for the gold. We don't think of her as this because she was injured for most of this season. Her skate in her Nationals, indicates the fight she has and the desire to win.

Watch out perinnial bridesmaids, er ladies-in-waiting.

 

[qoo]

If you think Japanese judges seem fishy, wait until you see what happens at US Nationals. I leave there every year with a sore throat from having to BOO the obvious bad judging. Last year it was most obvious with the Pairs. USFSA thought only the world judges had a problem. They were WAY WRONG!!

Yeah.. I guess we all shouldn't take our own nationals that seriously. After all, judges are from their own countires and results could be predetermined especially in the Olympic years!

 

[orchid]

I've noticed that no one seems to be talking about the inherent unfairness of a mid year rule change. The South Korean federation already relied on the age rule in not sending Ms. Kim to the Karl Schaeffer memorial to secure So. Korea a spot at Olys; changing the rules for Mao is unfair to them. It also sounds unfair to me that the "rug" can be jerked out from under Fumie, Shizuka and Miki, who have already been told that they are going to Olys.

Hersh's article isn't attempting to change the rules in mid-year, but to point out how dumb this age rule is. Perhaps, that topic, without mention of any particular skater, has been discused, but I missed it.

I think no one here is really expecting OR asking the rules to be changed, but when Mao rocketed to the top of the podium in mid.late season, the banality of this age rule came clear. Mao is a once in a generation phenomena, therefore her name is tossed about in discussion of this rule.

At the heart of the article, should be the basis for the rule, health concerns, be reopened? Whoever the medical experts were who provided expert testimony to the ISU regarding the health concerns of 'underage' skaters, should be invited back to council, 10 years later, and readdress this topic.

 

[cmego500]

Here's a questions i have about all of this thing,

Why isn't Mao allowed to compete in the Olympics and Worlds when she won the gold medal at Junir Worlds last year??

I remember correctly, the rule that you had to be 15 to compete in those events by june was in placed in 1996. Yet both Tara Limpinski and Sarah Hughes competed at Worlds before the allowed age by winning a Junior World Medal, which is what kept Sasha Cohen from competiting in worlds in 2000 because she hadn't won a Junior World Medal. I just saw Mao's profile and it says she won Junior Worlds last year. So shouldn't she be allowed to compete since exceptions were made for previous underaged champions??

 

[chuckm]

Here's a questions i have about all of this thing,

Why isn't Mao allowed to compete in the Olympics and Worlds when she won the gold medal at Junir Worlds last year??

I remember correctly, the rule that you had to be 15 to compete in those events by june was in placed in 1996. Yet both Tara Limpinski and Sarah Hughes competed at Worlds before the allowed age by winning a Junior World Medal, which is what kept Sasha Cohen from competiting in worlds in 2000 because she hadn't won a Junior World Medal. I just saw Mao's profile and it says she won Junior Worlds last year. So shouldn't she be allowed to compete since exceptions were made for previous underaged champions??

This question has been answered at least 1000 times on this and other boards.

Starting in the 1996-1997 season, the current age limits were in effect, but a Junior Worlds medal loophole was left in place, which expired after the 1999-2000 season. In order to skate at 2001 Worlds, Euros or 4CC, ALL skaters had to be 15 by July 1st, 2000.

In 1999, 13-year-old Sarah Hughes won the silver medal at JW and was allowed to compete at 1999 Senior Worlds in place of Naomi Nari Nam, who was 12 and too young to compete even at Junior Worlds. Sarah was the last underage skater to qualify for Senior Worlds under the JW medal loophole (Sasha could have gone to Worlds 2000 if she had medaled at JW that year, but she finished 6th).

BTW, Tara Lipinski never won a Junior Worlds medal. She finished off the podium both times she competed at JW. When Tara competed at Senior Worlds 1996 at 13, there was no age restriction (it went into effect the following season). Tara was allowed to compete at Worlds 1997 because she had already competed at Worlds the previous year (she was "grandfathered").

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Here's a questions i have about all of this thing,

Why isn't Mao allowed to compete in the Olympics and Worlds when she won the gold medal at Junir Worlds last year??

I remember correctly, the rule that you had to be 15 to compete in those events by june was in placed in 1996. Yet both Tara Limpinski and Sarah Hughes competed at Worlds before the allowed age by winning a Junior World Medal, which is what kept Sasha Cohen from competiting in worlds in 2000 because she hadn't won a Junior World Medal. I just saw Mao's profile and it says she won Junior Worlds last year. So shouldn't she be allowed to compete since exceptions were made for previous underaged champions??

The reason no one will analyze previous exceptions is because those skaters you mentioned did not pose any threat to the current field of competitors. Mao Asada is an exceptional skater and it is possible that she may even win the Olys. It is best to enforce the rule to the hilt in this case. After the Olys and Worlds, steps could be taken to dissolve the rule, and all those fans who were terrified of breaking a rule can agree that it is in the spirit of the Olympics that the rule should not apply for the Olympics. Countries should continue to send their best.

Joe

 

[chuckm]

Joe, you are basing your opinion on Mao's winning the Olympics on her beating Irina at GPF.

There are several reasons that suggest otherwise.

1. Irina did not skate her best at GPF. Since then, we have learned that her mother had just had a second kidney transplant and was not doing well, which was was not mentioned at the time. Irina spoke of being dizzy due to jet lag, but perhaps that was because she didn't want to talk about her mother's health problems. Her distraction and worry about her mother could explain why Irina made a very unusual mistake in the SP and wasn't completely focused in the FS.

2. Mao was skating with ZERO PRESSURE during the GP and GPF. She could not go to the Olympics and she was just there to have fun and possibly win, but not winning would have no affect whatsoever on her career.

3. Mao did not win the Japanese championship. Yes, she did two triple axels, but she omitted some of her later planned jumps and landed only 5 triples altogether. Maybe it was the thrill of doing the second 3A that threw her off, but more than likely it was the pressure--because winning her first Japanese championship WAS a goal for her this year.

4. Fumie won the Japanese championship with a 6-triple performance with no 3/3. That suggests that a bravura performance by any top skater with high PCS scores could beat a 'nervous' Mao performance, even one with super tricks.

 

[Frau Muller]

...bad for the Oly gold medalist who will always be known as the winner because Mao was not permitted to go to the Olys. That's the way it is in skateland.

Joe

You are 100% spot-on there, Joe! Irina, Sasha, Michele, etc., ...who ever may win gold in Turin will always be reminded that she most likely would not have won had Mao Asada been there. Too, let's not forget that, should Mao be in Turin, it most likely would push Irina, Sasha, Michele & the rest to better performances than they will give without Mao present. Would Fumie have skated as she did in Japan Natls had Mao not been around? I doubt it. My point: Having Mao inthe mix would bring out greater difficulty in her competitors.

 

[chuckm]

Baloney! Mao couldn't beat Suguri at Japanese Nationals. She did two 3As but landed only 5 triples altogether, probably due to nerves. Do you think the pressure would be less for her at Torino? I don't!

Mao might have had a shot at a bronze medal, but there is no need for asterisks. She is not eligible, and right there, that should erase any asterisk.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Chuckum - Of all the posters who are against Mao skating the Olys, you have to be the one leading the pack. That rule must have special meaning for you. BTW, I have never said Mao would win the Olys, just that she would be in the Mix for gold. She's a very talented kid and like Tara can smile her way through a sugar rush routine. No need for maturity. Just giggle.

The point of my thread was to say that without Mao in the mix, the threat of her beating the top names in figure skating has brought a bit of fresh air into the contest. There will be no spoiler of the grandeur of Mao challenging.

Joe

 

[Engwaciriel]

You are 100% spot-on there, Joe! Irina, Sasha, Michele, etc., ...who ever may win gold in Turin will always be reminded that she most likely would not have won had Mao Asada been there. Too, let's not forget that, should Mao be in Turin, it most likely would push Irina, Sasha, Michele & the rest to better performances than they will give without Mao present. Would Fumie have skated as she did in Japan Natls had Mao not been around? I doubt it. My point: Having Mao inthe mix would bring out greater difficulty in her competitors.

The most likely to win? I strongly doubt that. And y wouldn't fumie had skaten as good as she did if Mao wasn't there? Mao wasn't the one she needed to beat, Arakawa, Ando and Nakano was. As many has pointed out before me, the reason Mao has done so well might very well be the fact that there are no pressure on her this season. Whoever win the OGM should be happy about that, not think that Mao would have beaten them if she was there. I take it u think that Lambiel's win in the worlds wasn't really a victory since Plushenko wasn't there..

 

[chuckm]

Chuckum - Of all the posters who are against Mao skating the Olys, you have to be the one leading the pack. That rule must have special meaning for you. BTW, I have never said Mao would win the Olys, just that she would be in the Mix for gold. She's a very talented kid and like Tara can smile her way through a sugar rush routine. No need for maturity. Just giggle.

The point of my thread was to say that without Mao in the mix, the threat of her beating the top names in figure skating has brought a bit of fresh air into the contest. There will be no spoiler of the grandeur of Mao challenging.

Joe

No special meaning. But a rule is a rule is a rule, and it must apply equally to all. The Japanese federation voted for the age rules when the young Lipinski and Kwan were a force to be reckoned with. Bending or manipulating the rule just for Mao, especially mid-season, is not justifiable in any way.

The "grandeur of Mao challenging" is lost on me. It was easy for Mao to challenge in the GP when there was no pressure on her, and yes, it was fun to watch. But when the pressure was on (at Japanese Nationals) she became the challenged, and she caved in.

Mao is a wonderful skater, but she will be even better next year, when she is completely eligible for all competitions. I look forward to seeing her on an equal footing with her competitors, when winning becomes important, rather than just a fun thing.

Just a reminder: Oksana and Tara and Sarah were all eligible by current rules when they skated in the Olympics.

 

[attyfan]

Well Mao has won the senior GPF! The reason for her not winning her nationals after watching both Fumie and her performance are questionable to me. I think whether mid-season or not, there hasn't been anyone like Mao since this age restriction was put forth. So I think now is the time to change it even for only one person cuz the rest hasn't measured up to the level that Mao has reached. In my book, rules exist so we can modify them.:agree:

The only reason why other young skaters (such as Yu Na Kim) haven't presented the challenge that Mao has is because they relied on the age rule in making decisions. Everyone has been talking about Mao for a long time; a challenge could have been brought to the age rule earlier, so other federations (such as the South Korean one) would have known that they should not plan on the age rule holding up. Mao has an advantage because there were other Japanese ladies to earn a spot for her at Olys, where there was no one from Korea to do that for Ms. Kim.

Furthermore, I have heard a lot of criticism of the age rule from commentators and sports writers, but on the TV blurb (and according to a post on FSU from Morry Stillwell, former president of the USFSA), it was doctors who thought it a good thing.

 

[euterpe]

It IS hype, and based on just the GPF, it's a bit much. When you take the GPF results and Japanese Nationals together, you do get a clearer picture.
During the GP, she was pressureless and free to enjoy herself while other top skaters and especially, her teammates, were fighting to make a good impression on the judges before Torino. At Japanese Nationals, the ladies all skated their hearts out, but Mao wasn't quite as good as she was in the GP, where she had no pressure.

All the hype and insistence that "the best skater in the world" isn't skating at the Olympics is getting to be wearying. Mao is an excellent skater, but she is not quite at the top of her game at this stage, and she is ineligible as well.

Mao needs a lot more seasoning before it can be said that she is the best in the world,. Right now, Mao is unquestionably the best of the Juniors, but she is still a junior insofar as her eligible competition level. And given the rules, that is where she will remain, at least for this season.