Saw this article on another forum. Apparently she's running for President of the French federation.
http://www.estrepublicain.fr/sports/2004060700107997.html
http://www.estrepublicain.fr/sports/2004060700107997.html
Marie-Reine Le Gougne for President
- Thread starter Antilles
- Start date
If this is true, it's a bizarre turn of events considering Rogge's remarks in this article-
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/FigureSkating/2004/06/07/489661-ap.html
Of course, running for office is a long way from winning.
If she does win, it's the end of my pet theory regarding Didier's resignation. I was thinking there might be something in the ESPN contract that demanded his removal. After all, a legitimate sports broadcaster might be reluctant to be associated with fixed [in the public's eyes] competitions.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/FigureSkating/2004/06/07/489661-ap.html
Of course, running for office is a long way from winning.
If she does win, it's the end of my pet theory regarding Didier's resignation. I was thinking there might be something in the ESPN contract that demanded his removal. After all, a legitimate sports broadcaster might be reluctant to be associated with fixed [in the public's eyes] competitions.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Quote from the article
"The new format does not identify the judges publicly although there is a system in place to assess the judge's scores to determine if it is far from the overall average."
The problem with this system is that anything that shows up as deception or ineptness will not be brought to light to the public and if it does it will not be known until way after the competition. Thus, if there is hanky panky in the judging it will not afffect the results of the competition. It results in the 'losing' skater feeling cheated and his fans, too.
I believe it is important to know the judges' names and nationalities.
As for Mme Le Gourgne, why not? She's learned a lesson which took away a part of her love for the Sport. She won't make that mistake again.
Joe
"The new format does not identify the judges publicly although there is a system in place to assess the judge's scores to determine if it is far from the overall average."
The problem with this system is that anything that shows up as deception or ineptness will not be brought to light to the public and if it does it will not be known until way after the competition. Thus, if there is hanky panky in the judging it will not afffect the results of the competition. It results in the 'losing' skater feeling cheated and his fans, too.
I believe it is important to know the judges' names and nationalities.
As for Mme Le Gourgne, why not? She's learned a lesson which took away a part of her love for the Sport. She won't make that mistake again.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
It was basically like that before CoP. Judges assessments were always done after the competition. At least CoP way of assessment is more refined by making sure judges' scores don't deviate. You will never know from scoes though, if a judge is judging unethically. That requires psychic powers. You can speculate all you want, but that's what it will be, speculation. I don't see the need for open judging because I don't see an advantage.Joesitz said:
The ISU always lists judges for events on the results page. The nationalities will still list as "ISU", but the list of judges and from which country they represent is still published by the ISU ever season, so you can just do it that way.Joesitz said:
TV
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Hi TV = I'm aware of what you wrote. However, I disagree with you on keeping the judging secret. If the judging is fair, and you seem to go along with that, why not let the public know who scored what for whom?
As to reprimanding judges who do not conform with the average judging, what are the penalities for ineptness? for collusion? for patriotic or ethnic bias? Are there different penalties or is that they all get a wrist slap?
I don't see a disadvantage of open judging. Apparently, you do. Could you list the disadvantages? I'd appreciate it., and will admit that I am wrong.
Joe
As to reprimanding judges who do not conform with the average judging, what are the penalities for ineptness? for collusion? for patriotic or ethnic bias? Are there different penalties or is that they all get a wrist slap?
I don't see a disadvantage of open judging. Apparently, you do. Could you list the disadvantages? I'd appreciate it., and will admit that I am wrong.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I honestly believe that she did not want to be part of that collusion between France and Russia. Can you imagine saying NO to Didier? and whatever happened to the other consiprator(s). we are made to believe it was only a French thing. Will the counterpart to this collusion continue to judge?
Am I correct?
Joe
Am I correct?
Joe
I never thought she was anything other than someone's tool. Of course, one judge couldn't have pulled this off anyway. I also give her full credit for having a moral conscience. Obviously, she suffered greatly when others didn't bat an eye. I also recognize, it isn't right that other's have gotten away scott free [no pun intended].
However, skating desperately needs to put that in the past and form a newer, cleaner image. How could that happen with her in a position of authority?
However, skating desperately needs to put that in the past and form a newer, cleaner image. How could that happen with her in a position of authority?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I agree with what SusanBeth is saying. I think the key point is this quote from Rogge of the IOC:
"What happened in Salt Lake shattered public confidence in the judging system," Rogge. "I know you [the ISU] will address this issue, but how you do it is up to you. I am sure you will send out a strong message that sports lovers can trust your sport.
"The world is expecting a strong message that will alleviate the doubts that are hanging over the judging."
The election of the chief perpetrator/dupe to high office in the French federation does not send a "strong message that will alleviate the doubts that are hanging over the judging." On the contrary, it reinforces the public perception that the federations are so corrupt that they welcome and honor cheaters, as long as they are cheating for us.
Ditto secret judging. To tell the truth, I do not see much advantage one way or the other on this issue as far as the outcome of events or the quality of the judging is concerned. But I do believe that secret judging is a public relations disaster for the ISU. With secret judging, people will believe the worst, whether these fears are justified or not.
The same with the CoP. I like it because it gives the illusion that the ISU is trying to come up with a fairer system of judging. In fact, I don't think it makes any difference one way or the other on the issue of fairness.
But, again from the point of view of the perception of the sport in the minds of the general public, the negative publicity attached to the random draw provision overwhelms all the good points that can be garnered by the CoP system itself.
Think about the uproar that will ensue if the next Olympic gold medal is decided by the luck of the random draw and does not go to the skater who got the highest scores from the majority of the sitting judges.
Mathman
PS. I do understand the statistical arguments that say the random draw thing doesn't matter. In fact, I have articulated them on this board. Here I am talking strictly about the public perception of the sport.
"What happened in Salt Lake shattered public confidence in the judging system," Rogge. "I know you [the ISU] will address this issue, but how you do it is up to you. I am sure you will send out a strong message that sports lovers can trust your sport.
"The world is expecting a strong message that will alleviate the doubts that are hanging over the judging."
The election of the chief perpetrator/dupe to high office in the French federation does not send a "strong message that will alleviate the doubts that are hanging over the judging." On the contrary, it reinforces the public perception that the federations are so corrupt that they welcome and honor cheaters, as long as they are cheating for us.
Ditto secret judging. To tell the truth, I do not see much advantage one way or the other on this issue as far as the outcome of events or the quality of the judging is concerned. But I do believe that secret judging is a public relations disaster for the ISU. With secret judging, people will believe the worst, whether these fears are justified or not.
The same with the CoP. I like it because it gives the illusion that the ISU is trying to come up with a fairer system of judging. In fact, I don't think it makes any difference one way or the other on the issue of fairness.
But, again from the point of view of the perception of the sport in the minds of the general public, the negative publicity attached to the random draw provision overwhelms all the good points that can be garnered by the CoP system itself.
Think about the uproar that will ensue if the next Olympic gold medal is decided by the luck of the random draw and does not go to the skater who got the highest scores from the majority of the sitting judges.
Mathman
PS. I do understand the statistical arguments that say the random draw thing doesn't matter. In fact, I have articulated them on this board. Here I am talking strictly about the public perception of the sport.
I'm iffy on the secret judging thing. On the one hand, I agree we'll never know if hanky panky is going on. On the other, it does free up some of the judges from pressure. Shae-Lynn Bourne said she didn't think she and Vic would have been World Champions without the secret judging.
Sorry the link didn't work. It was a brief article (two paragraphs), saying that she would be running. It was in French, too. The first line of the article refers to her as a woman of character, and then states something I can't really translate, but it's along the lines of "she isn't a person liekly to speak in a void or talk about nothing".
I agree the perception of her is bad, and she did something inexcusable. However, she never had to say anything about it, and her actions and words did bring about some changes. Maybe she really doesn't want anyone else to have to go through the pressure she went through. I don't think she can be any worse that Gaillughet, at any rate.
Sorry the link didn't work. It was a brief article (two paragraphs), saying that she would be running. It was in French, too. The first line of the article refers to her as a woman of character, and then states something I can't really translate, but it's along the lines of "she isn't a person liekly to speak in a void or talk about nothing".
I agree the perception of her is bad, and she did something inexcusable. However, she never had to say anything about it, and her actions and words did bring about some changes. Maybe she really doesn't want anyone else to have to go through the pressure she went through. I don't think she can be any worse that Gaillughet, at any rate.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Not to dwell on this but can we safely saythat LeGourgne is the figure skating scapegoat for what happened in SLC and that Didier and that mysterious Russian are basically irrelevant.
By the way, who was that russian judging at SLC judgng the Pairs? I think this was before Secrecy came into the picture. Anyone remember, and is he still judging?
Joe
By the way, who was that russian judging at SLC judgng the Pairs? I think this was before Secrecy came into the picture. Anyone remember, and is he still judging?
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
The Russian judge on the SLC pairs panel was Marina Sanaia, Piseev's wife. However, the alleged deal was not between the Russian judge on the pairs panel and LeGogne. It was supposedly to ensure that Anissina/Peizerat won the gold in dance, in exchange for B&S winning the gold in pairs.Joesitz said:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Well then, who was the Russian Judge in Dance?
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I'm not saying that she is innocent. I'm saying she is getting the brunt of the whol collusion It seems to me that we leave it at LeGorugne as the sole fault. The men had nothing really to do with it.
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
I don't think that anyone seriously blames Marie-whatever as "the lone gunman". Obviously she wasn't running a one woman show, that would make no sense. The problem is, she's the only name we have to link to the real or imagined fix. The dozy cow fessed up and then refused to name names and take the other guilty parties down with her. If she is the poster child for the scandal, then I agree she has no one to blame but herself. She should have either kept her mouth shut like judges have suposidly been doing for decades, or if her initial confession was true, she should have exposed her accomplices. If there's a Russian judge who colluded with her that is now going free, well Marie, who fault is that?
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
What LeGougne reportedly said to Stapleford & Co. in front of the elevators and repeated in front of all of the other judges and the referee in the post-competition meeting was that she was pressured to vote in a certain way by Gailhauguet, not that she, personally, colluded with another judge.berthes ghost said:
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
Exactly. She can only be a "scapegoat" if she is taking the blame for a group action. According to her, she isn't. She named herself and Didier and both were punished .
