Men neglected in figure skating?

[NaVi]

Regardless of what the federations are doing, when it comes to NBC's programming they give men and women equal time and don't show pairs or ice dancing at all. I do not agree at all with giving men and women equal airtime with pairs and ice dancing not shown at all.

IMO, if there are only 2 hours then they should show an hour of women edited like a "sporting event"... and then spend the other hour showing highlights of men's, pairs, and ice dancing that are the most entertaining.

 

[karne]

I'll add in my (incredibly old fashioned, very homophobic) mother's opinion on men in skating- "It's wrong." but then when I ask what about Pairs & Dance she says "Well that's okay because the woman needs someone to skate with." Basically skating with a woman = not too flamboyant, but skating alone and being artsy = gay, gay, gay. And even though I'm ashamed of my mother's opinions, I admit that a large percentage of Americans still hold a view point similar to hers.

It is not just America - it is Western culture as a whole. I still lock horns with my father whose attitude is more or less the same as your mother's - that it's not a sport and that all the men are gay with no exceptions, as if this is somehow a bad thing to be.

I don't know how it can be fixed. There was a show on TV here a couple of years ago called "Australia's Greatest Athlete" where they took athletes from different sports and pitted them against each other in a series of tests to measure strength, endurance, reflexes, nimbleness, and so on. I'd wager that a figure skater would have done pretty well on that show. Something like that might help - but a lot of people would just ignore the result anyway.

 

[Krunchii]

Uh I think figure skating is harder than football. To jump, rotate and land on a blade, that takes some athleticism. Football can't do that. Any guy who think male skaters are gay, I'll GLARE at the dude.

That's a poor comparison, everyone is different, some sports will be harder for others, I've always been terrible at soccer/football but I picked up skating right away when I first got on the ice as a child. Football isn't just about kicking a ball around, speed, agility, dribbling the ball, scoring a goal, reflexes, they can be harder to train depending on who you are.

And women's figure skating has always been more popular than mens, lots of guys watch it just for the pretty girls in little dresses. Very few of them appreciate the athleticism that goes into figure skating. Even the weeks leading up to Sochi I saw more Gracie than Davis/White even though they were basically a lock for gold.

 

[ice coverage]

...
I never said male competitors were doomed to invisibility, I am talking about support.

LOL ... call me crazy, but then it was misleading IMO for you to use the words "attention," "noticed," "famous" (twice), and "recognized" in your OP -- if you wanted to discuss nothing but USFS support.
My usage of "invisibility" was intended to be in the same vein as your words. :confused2:

I was watching the interview with Todd Eldredge on skating lesson. He said something very interesting, that during the early 2000 the USFF (I am paraphrasing) did not pay that much attention to men's accomplishment because it was all about Michelle Kwan. (by the way he did not say anything negative about Michelle, in fact he said she deserve all the praise)... But he said it was hard for man to get noticed. To me that was so interesting, because with all his accomplishments for him to feel that way. I wonder how other male competitors feel or felt.


In other countries man have a better chance Dai was super famous in the era of Mao Asada in Japan
Javier Fernandez single handedly made Figure Skating famous in Spain.

But, I think is something to think about... If federations support ladies more than man, what would the incentive for male skaters to be in the sport?

And Finally lets talk about the most accomplished US Figure Skater skater of this quad: Evan Lysacek, World Champion and Olympic Champ, whether you like him or not. Shouldn't he be more recognized...

 

[karne]

And women's figure skating has always been more popular than mens, lots of guys watch it just for the pretty girls in little dresses. Very few of them appreciate the athleticism that goes into figure skating. Even the weeks leading up to Sochi I saw more Gracie than Davis/White even though they were basically a lock for gold.

I was actually just thinking about this. Gracie got more attention pre-season, even though she was only the reigning silver medallist, than Max did as reigning National Champion. Actually, if you look at the NBC promos that were shot pre-season, Jeremy got more attention than Max did! So it's almost like they shoot themselves in the foot anyway.

As to the pretty girls in little dresses thing - yes, unfortunately, I think it does come down to that. But do not dare mention as a girl that you watch a male sport, because then you're only watching it for the good-lookers and you're not a real fan. Oh, but it's okay for men to watch women's sport purely for the girls. /frustration

Maybe the solution is to sex the men up and try and hook in some of the younger female fans?

EDIT:

Nope, I've figured it out. I've got the news on in the background and they just showed all of these brainless teenage girls crying - crying, for heaven's sake! - because they caught a glimpse of One Direction. Figure skating needs a boyband. Get 'em together, make them sing cheesy bad songs, style them to be moody and mysterious, and voila, instant fanbase.

 

[Mrs. P]

That's a poor comparison, everyone is different, some sports will be harder for others, I've always been terrible at soccer/football but I picked up skating right away when I first got on the ice as a child. Football isn't just about kicking a ball around, speed, agility, dribbling the ball, scoring a goal, reflexes, they can be harder to train depending on who you are.

And women's figure skating has always been more popular than mens, lots of guys watch it just for the pretty girls in little dresses. Very few of them appreciate the athleticism that goes into figure skating. Even the weeks leading up to Sochi I saw more Gracie than Davis/White even though they were basically a lock for gold.

I totally agree. There's no need to insult one sport to prove that figure skating in more athletic. Another aspect of football is strategy -- You basically have to figure out what is the best way to outsmart the other team to get that
first down, touchdown, etc.

Also not all football players are the same, athletically, even in the same position. For example, you have quarterbacks who are more apt to run the ball when necessary (Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson comes to mind) while you have others like the Denver Broncos' Peyton Manning who are more passing quarter backs.

And true about guys watching pretty girls in skating. Basically the way I get to talk about skating with some of my guy friends is talking about their skating crushes -- one friend loves Tanith Belbin, another loves Alissa Czisny while another goes for Ashley Wagner.

 

[Krunchii]

I was actually just thinking about this. Gracie got more attention pre-season, even though she was only the reigning silver medallist, than Max did as reigning National Champion. Actually, if you look at the NBC promos that were shot pre-season, Jeremy got more attention than Max did! So it's almost like they shoot themselves in the foot anyway.

As to the pretty girls in little dresses thing - yes, unfortunately, I think it does come down to that. But do not dare mention as a girl that you watch a male sport, because then you're only watching it for the good-lookers and you're not a real fan. Oh, but it's okay for men to watch women's sport purely for the girls. /frustration

Maybe the solution is to sex the men up and try and hook in some of the younger female fans?

EDIT:

Nope, I've figured it out. I've got the news on in the background and they just showed all of these brainless teenage girls crying - crying, for heaven's sake! - because they caught a glimpse of One Direction. Figure skating needs a boyband. Get 'em together, make them sing cheesy bad songs, style them to be moody and mysterious, and voila, instant fanbase.

Sex up the men? Count me in, I don't get why they don't promote Max or Joshua Farris more, Max to me is the epitome of a man, just look at those thighs! He's also quite handsome, just maybe needs a little help in the hair department. And Joshua Farris seems like the sweet boy next door, I like his skating, he could totally fit into One Direction...

And I know, I mentioned to some of my friends that I watched soccer and mentioned a player I liked and they all asked me if it was because I thought he was cute, disregarding the fact that he's one of the best wingers in the world right now, shame

I totally agree. There's no need to insult one sport to prove that figure skating in more athletic. Another aspect of football is strategy -- You basically have to figure out what is the best way to outsmart the other team to get that
first down, touchdown, etc.

Also not all football players are the same, athletically, even in the same position. For example, you have quarterbacks who are more apt to run the ball when necessary (Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson comes to mind) while you have others like the Denver Broncos' Peyton Manning who are more passing quarter backs.

And true about guys watching pretty girls in skating. Basically the way I get to talk about skating with some of my guy friends is talking about their skating crushes -- one friend loves Tanith Belbin, another loves Alissa Czisny while another goes for Ashley Wagner.

You're so lucky, during the Olympics I was watching Mao's LP and at the choreo sequence she did a fan spiral and one of my friends jumped up screaming "she flashed her vajayjay at the judges!!!" I was sitting there with watery eyes and he totally ruined my mood -____-
My Korean guy friends though, when they talk about Yuna, I swear I can see the hearts in their eyes, she is so loved lol

 

[cruzceleste]

Javier Fernandez single handedly made Figure Skating famous in Spain.

Figure Skatin isn´t famous in Spain. And it won´t be unless it´s become a big sport as F1, and Javier Fernandez does what Fernando Alonso did, get the mayor price (Olympics/ Worlds, and Alonso got it twice).

You just need to look to any mayor Sport Diary in Spain (www.marca.com by example) to see that Figure skating in Spain is just a foot note.

Even in the Spanish Figure skating championship only four men compete, that´s not the size of a popular sport. Only 2 ladies? I bet there are more people competing in Junior in Japan and US than in all Spain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Spanish_Figure_Skating_Championships#Senior_men

 

[NaVi]

I'll add in my (incredibly old fashioned, very homophobic) mother's opinion on men in skating- "It's wrong." but then when I ask what about Pairs & Dance she says "Well that's okay because the woman needs someone to skate with." Basically skating with a woman = not too flamboyant, but skating alone and being artsy = gay, gay, gay. And even though I'm ashamed of my mother's opinions, I admit that a large percentage of Americans still hold a view point similar to hers.

While I do hate the Men's Figure Skating=Gay Association, there is absolutely nothing irrational(in fact, I think it would be the norm) for women to prefer pairs and ice dancing over men's figure skating. Pair's and Ice Dancing consistently emphasize passion and romance while men's figure skating is often self absorbed or very hit and miss in what it emphasizes and appeals with... heck, I was reading an interview with Eteri Tutberidze and she talked about how many asian male skaters skated femininely and how she wanted her male students to emulate.

Also, women are hardwired to like tall men... I'm 5'9" 1/2 and the average height for white male figure skaters is probably 5'9"... with the asian skaters significantly shorter. Go on match.com and look at women's minimum height requirements... a majority of those that list a height put at at least at 5'10 and probably a third of women list 6" as a minimum height. The majority of men in ice dancing and pairs are in women's ideal height range... they need to be strong to do the elements and it's also needed for aesthetic reasons to make the passion and romance undertones work.

Show me any elite male singles skater that comes close to Maxim Trankov when it comes to what the majority of women find attractive? Oh yeah, you can't say Evan Lysacek who is 6''2".

Do you think a man by himself could come even close to capturing a women's imagination as this:

Art on Ice 2014 Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov with Hurts - Somebody to Die For
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBzQq-TdnW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTxhUOxTCMU

 

[minze]

LOL ... call me crazy, but then it was misleading IMO for you to use the words "attention," "noticed," "famous" (twice), and "recognized" in your OP -- if you wanted to discuss nothing but USFS support.
My usage of "invisibility" was intended to be in the same vein as your words. :confused2:

@golden411 I dont know why this a sensitive subject for you. But let me assure you I am not trying to dissmiss anyone. Just made a comment about the interview.. Also, when I say more recognized, much attention I am obviously saying they dont get as much as the ladies. Even your example: charlie White, Gracie Gold got more attention than he did. I never is an after-thought or not respected. Just a reflection about man in Figure Skating

 

[minze]

I just want to point out, that this view kinda adds to the problem. Ideally neither football or figure skating should be described by gender. I know it is easy, I know it is convenient, and yes I know what you mean - but at the same time. We really should try to expand and improve our vocabulary. Something physically difficult should not be automatically manly any more than something should need to be physically difficult to be manly.

It is not really fair to football/soccer/insert cultural variety here to call them/their sport "manly" either. There was an openly coach interviewed a while ago on this issue that said he gets hit on more by (NFL) football players than skaters.

To be blunt Johnny Weir and Rudy Galindo should be allowed and welcomed in the NFL, and that is sorta the other side of the coin. To me both issues should be tackled together.

I do know that, hello girls can do 3A in figure skating. My comment was about perception. And although woman can play any sport they want, they are very much male dominated

 

[yyyskate]

I think sexy/sweet/smart boys next door type attracts lots of girls, it is one type, the teen-pop type. and figure skating is a youthful sports.
And I do know that women are drooling over for example Patrick's chest or Javi's guns, and of course Yuzuru-- the ultimate anime on ice, they aren't tall guys.

 

[Skater Boy]

If Jason can medal at major competitions, then maybe you're right. It could bring more attention. He has a personality that everyone loves.

Certainly in the US the marketing key athlete has been the female singles skater. Add to that while very nice people TOdd Eldridge, Paul Wylie and Evan were rather "bland" for lack of words. Johnny Weir has been popular and to a point Rudi Galindo but they, according to marking stas have a different market which already were fans (females) or the gay population if you believe or accept some of the marking reports. I am not sure if Brown really would bring in a lot of new viewers; he does not have that more traditoinal male look about his skating like Elvis or even Candelero.

 

[silverfoxes]

While I do hate the Men's Figure Skating=Gay Association, there is absolutely nothing irrational(in fact, I think it would be the norm) for women to prefer pairs and ice dancing over men's figure skating. Pair's and Ice Dancing consistently emphasize passion and romance while men's figure skating is often self absorbed or very hit and miss in what it emphasizes and appeals with... heck, I was reading an interview Eteri Tutberidze and she talked about how many asian male skaters skated femininely and how she wanted her male students to emulate.

Also, women are hardwired to like tall men... I'm 5'9" 1/2 and the average height for white male figure skaters is probably 5'9"... with the asian skaters significantly shorter. Go on match.com and look at women's minimum height requirements... a majority of those that list a height put at at least at 5'10 and probably a third of women list 6" as a minimum height. The majority men in ice dancing and pairs are in women's ideal height range... they need to be strong to do the elements and it's also needed for aesthetic reasons to make the passion and romance undertones work.

Show me any elite male singles skater that comes close to Maxim Trankov when it comes to what the majority of women find attractive? Oh yeah, you can't say Evan Lysacek who is 6''2".

Do you think a man by himself could come even close to capturing a women's imagination as this:

Art on Ice 2014 Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov with Hurts - Somebody to Die For
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBzQq-TdnW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTxhUOxTCMU

Say what?? I am female, love watching men's singles and think plenty of male single skaters are attractive (too many, perhaps!). Daisuke Takahashi is 5'5, but he has legions of female admirers. Javier Fernandez is 5'9 and he's extremely hot too!

I like watching pairs, but ice dance mostly puts me to sleep. And when I watch those disciplines, I don't favor the cheesy romantic programs at all. I like drama, I like powerful skating. And I'm sure I'm not alone (see the "why I love men's skating" thread). So these stereotypes are bizarre to me.

 

[cruzceleste]

and of course Yuzuru-- the ultimate anime on ice

 

[ice coverage]

...

Show me any elite male singles skater that comes close to Maxim Trankov when it comes to what the majority of women find attractive? Oh yeah, you can't say Evan Lysacek who is 6''2".

Do you think a man by himself could come even close to capturing a women's imagination as this:

Art on Ice 2014 Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov with Hurts - Somebody to Die For
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBzQq-TdnW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTxhUOxTCMU

For the zillionth time, "De gustibus non est disputandum." (I'll jump in and say it on behalf of WA. )

You are making nothing more than an assumption that everyone shares your opinion re Trankov. News flash: not everyone does.

Many males from the Men's discipline are attractive. Same for Ice Dance. Same for Pairs.

@golden411 I dont know why this a sensitive subject for you. But let me assure you I am not trying to dissmiss anyone. Just made a comment about the interview.. Also, when I say more recognized, much attention I am obviously saying they dont get as much as the ladies. Even your example: charlie White, Gracie Gold got more attention than he did. I never is an after-thought or not respected. Just a reflection about man in Figure Skating

Huh? I never said or implied that you dismissed anyone. And who said that this subject is sensitive for me???
Please stop putting words in my mouth. You are "responding" to things that I never said.
If you actually had read my second post with any care, you would see that it said that you confused me -- nothing more, nothing less -- b/c your OP made all kinds of mentions about fame, attention, and recognition, but then you subsequently claimed to be talking only about federation support.

Time for me to leave this thread ... b/c for some reason you seem to be sensitive to my participation. :confused2:

 

[MalAssada]

I keep remembering that line in Blades of Glory: As if figure skating weren't gay enough.
Men in sparkly costumes that clutch to their figures crying their hearts out after they dance, jump and spin to a cliché romance song (and as if it weren't enough, they aren't men enough to land their jumps) :sarcasm:

Seriously, now. I do think that the gay stereotype hurts the sport, but I will add that the constant bombing hurts the sport as well. Remember when casual fans status that Jason Brown should have won the Olympics because he didn't fall? Falling hurts the "he is great!" momentum because "if he trains hours every day, how come he keeps falling?" :sarcasm:

 

[yyyskate]

I think the US figure skating marketer need some new strategies to sell their skaters. sell the hell out of all their male skaters of all types and not only male skaters...
I think Japan is doing a very good job at marketing figure skating. They usually combine figure skating with their entertainment business.

 

[Scovies]

But do not dare mention as a girl that you watch a male sport, because then you're only watching it for the good-lookers and you're not a real fan.

I HATE that, but for a slightly different reason. I love (American) football, and whenever I start talking about it in detail around men, they look at me as if I've just sprouted horns because I know what a triple-option offense is. I think it's the same thing that female video game players run across, with men thinking they're just pretending to like it for attention.

To piggyback on the "men's figure skating = gay" association that a lot of people have (and the greater societal problem of many people immediately thinking "gay = bad"), look at TSL's interview with Elvis Stojko. When he was talking about how he thought the sport should embrace different types of artistry rather than viewing only one presentation style -- balletic/lyrical -- as being "correct," he referred to that type of skating as "feminine." I understood that he was trying to say that he felt that someone could still be artistic without being lyrical and wanted the judges to recognize that more, but it still made me cringe that he referred to Johnny Weir's skating style as feminine.

 

[satine]

While I do hate the Men's Figure Skating=Gay Association, there is absolutely nothing irrational(in fact, I think it would be the norm) for women to prefer pairs and ice dancing over men's figure skating. Pair's and Ice Dancing consistently emphasize passion and romance while men's figure skating is often self absorbed or very hit and miss in what it emphasizes and appeals with... heck, I was reading an interview with Eteri Tutberidze and she talked about how many asian male skaters skated femininely and how she wanted her male students to emulate.

Also, women are hardwired to like tall men... I'm 5'9" 1/2 and the average height for white male figure skaters is probably 5'9"... with the asian skaters significantly shorter. Go on match.com and look at women's minimum height requirements... a majority of those that list a height put at at least at 5'10 and probably a third of women list 6" as a minimum height. The majority of men in ice dancing and pairs are in women's ideal height range... they need to be strong to do the elements and it's also needed for aesthetic reasons to make the passion and romance undertones work.

Show me any elite male singles skater that comes close to Maxim Trankov when it comes to what the majority of women find attractive? Oh yeah, you can't say Evan Lysacek who is 6''2".

Do you think a man by himself could come even close to capturing a women's imagination as this:

Art on Ice 2014 Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov with Hurts - Somebody to Die For
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBzQq-TdnW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTxhUOxTCMU

I think you went off on a bit of a tangent over my initial post. My mother does not prefer Pairs or Dance for the record, she would mostly ignore all but the Ladies event when my sister or I would watch on TV. She doesn't care too much about fs, but does feel free to voice her opinion on why men should not be doing anything 'artsy' unless they act as a companion to a woman. She feels the exact same way about men performing dance, gymnastics & ballet. :disapp: