Men's Free

[Bennett]

Johnny's LP is his worst ever, IMO. There's nothing new in there and it doesn't create much of a feeling or even build to much of a climax. He does have a few good moments within the program, but this is far below what he is capable of. His Short Programs these past 3 seasons have all been sub-par for him as well. Johnny is currently at an all-time artistic low and that's sad to see. (although he's at least still a bit better than Lysacek)

I'm also annoyed that he isn't maxing out his combinations. He needs to do 3 of them, including the 3-jump combo! I really wish he would start training this jump layout:

4Toe
3Axel-3Toe
3Flip
3Axel
-----
3Lutz-3Toe
3Loop
2Axel-2Toe-2Loop
3Sal

I do agree with the overall results of the competition. Takahiko Kozuka wasn't amazing, but he was slightly better than Weir and Lysacek. I hope he improves artistically.

I also wonder why Johnny doesn't max his combo.

I also agree that Takahiko could work more on his artistry (, which I hear he has done). I think that he has become better than the last year, but not really comparable to many of his competitors such as Johnny, Chan, Verner, and Takahashi. Although Evan and Joubert may not be musical, they still know how to attract the audience's attention every time they do the element. Takahiko's skating is still like reading a good textbook.

 

[Spun Silver]

Takahiko's skating is still like reading a good textbook.

That's not so bad, actually. If it means clean and accurate and legible, it is a beautiful thing, like geometry. Of course, top skaters need more, but those are fine qualities that should be prized. That understated clarity could be his special gift. He has a modest look that I liked a lot.

"Notre Dame" is not a signature program for Johnny, although I think it will serve him well enough this season. I wonder why it has been so hard for him to find "magical" music and programs lately. Maybe it's time to ditch the Russians and call Lori Nichols.

 

[jyshin]

Takahiko Kozuka... I hope he improves artistically.

Artistically speaking, I enjoyed his performance the most. TK not only understands details of the music but also delivers the musical nuance to his audience.
What he needs is confidence and experience... which I believe will come with time and hopefully in time for the 2010 Olympics.

 

[MissIzzy]

I also wonder why Johnny doesn't max his combo.

His press conference suggested a mental block to me. Though it seems after losing a second competition on it, he might just focus on fixing it. If he manages that, losing here might be the best thing that could happen to him.

 

[Bennett]

His press conference suggested a mental block to me. Though it seems after losing a second competition on it, he might just focus on fixing it. If he manages that, losing here might be the best thing that could happen to him.

What's interesting is that he didn't even plan on having three combos. Does anyone know why he choose not to put three?

 

[decker]

I dunno I get tired of Sandra and Scott bad mouthing the CoP when essentially they had a big hand in getting it to us. Mainly because the whole "nit picking the technical" is exactly what they did and demanded the judges do in 2002. You can't have it both ways.

Absolutely.

And to me, there was no controversy. On my 10-year-old 22" TV set (obviously no HD), with my 42-year-old eyes, I had 2 thoughts immediately about that 3A:

Evan is toast if they call him on that.
Scott and Sandra will pitch a hissy fit.

I realize that even a yucky TV is an advantage in some ways. If I were in the arena, I'd watch the ice ... not the Jumbotron. And I might not have a good angle or whatever.

But the 1/4 turn cheat you get for free + the 1/6 excess is not, as Scott claimed, just a smidge too far. It's 5/12 of a turn. That's darned close to 1/2 turn. Maybe that's why a middle-aged lady with a decrepit TV noticed it.

Incidentally, it looks like Evan got called for lipping, too. I'll have to check the video archive to see what I think about that.

Susan

 

[ManyCairns]

Hmm...well. I don't agree that these programs are horrible for Johnny. I think they're already way ahead of last years (as happy as I was at Johnny's comeback, I thought those programs were pretty boring. I haven't rewatched them much)

I've watched the new ones a few times, and they improve with repeat viewings, imo. And I don't agree that he hasn't changed or improved over time. He's not going to change his basic style much. He already tried that. It didn't work out too well. But he has come a long way as far as using his whole body effectively (without resorting to flailing) and, yes, expressiveness. He'll never be a flashy showman, but he's not nearly as introverted as he used to be.

I'm not in love with the music of either the SP or LP, but I think he does use it well. I don't agree at all that he could be skating to anything.

Are they on par with the Swan or Valse Triste? No. But I doubt he'll be on that level again unless he chooses truly wonderful, memorable music. It makes such a huge difference, especially with a skater as refined and subtle as Johnny. I hope he realizes that in time for next season.

And, it's still early in the season. These were his first public performances of these programs. Maybe wait until at least until NHK before writing him off completely.

Thanks for these thoughtful comments, seafoam. I got to thinking about what I posted just last night about Johnny and Evan doing the same type of programs.

And later I thought, well, really, how many skaters DO change their basic style during their competitive careers? And Johnny did try it with the Chess/Nazareth season, and it didn't work for him.

And then I thought of even the great MK, who did many wonderful programs, but IMO there was certainly a basic style she had that remained similar from program to program.

And within his style, it does seem like this year's programs have more potential than last year's for Johnny. Though I actually did enjoy last year's. But, yeah, it would be great if he could find another magical Otonal or Swan.

And Evan knows that what he's doing works well, so why should he change it? Although really, he does repeat his programs too often and seems to always select the hackneyed pieces. But still, he can be a crowd pleaser and he seems to be happy with what he does, so what not keep doing the exact or similar same thing over and over? Ideally, I would like to see him try something a little different, but again, if it isn't broken ...


This is what makes discussion forums so fun! Thanks to the thoughts of others, I've 180'ed -- or at least 135'ed -- on the comments I made last night.

 

[Spun Silver]

Bravo (or -a), Rallycairn!

 

[fairly4]

I don't understand how Tahiko Kozuka won,. I saw Johnny's, Evan's and Takahiko lp.
Okay I will by Takahaki bypassing Evan cause of the fall and I didn't get his costume and program unless. it represents the two faces of man.
Evan should skate a half a beat faster.

Johnny in my book should have won-even though he skated a bit flat. Johnny outside of the ur on on quad didn't make too many mistakes or stumbles.

Takaiko ur his quad and did other mistakes and stumbes, plus skated a bit slow.

I don't get it. he warrented the score but not enough to leapfrog both of them.

 

[fairly4]

i am sorry when I stated Takikho was20 points behind , I was looking at Kevin Reynolds score.

 

[werelump]

And within his style, it does seem like this year's programs have more potential than last year's for Johnny. Though I actually did enjoy last year's. But, yeah, it would be great if he could find another magical Otonal or Swan.

Valse Triste, The Swan, Otonal, Rondo Capriccioso... all under TAT. His programs outside of Tarasova have been nowhere near the same level. Johnny knows which programs were his masterpieces and his favorites. Does anyone know why he doesn't return to her for choreography? Because she's almost a sure thing.

As for Johnny's programs this season: I see a lot of potential in his SP. The music, costume, flow and the fantasy conductor (he does look like he's conducting some imaginary orchestra) theme appeals to me. What I saw at SA still looked like a work in progress, but I'm liking what I see so far. As for his free skate? I don't like at all and unless the choreography undergoes massive changes, I don't think I see myself ever liking it. It just feels overly long and drab.

TAT gave Evan really good programs this season, but I think Lori Nichol suits him more. I'm not disappointed that the flailing is still there. It's his thing and he's good at what he does. I infinitely prefer seeing skaters perform in the style that they are best at and to stretch themselves by going as far as they can with it, than seeing a skater try to fit themselves into a style where they have the potential to be good, but unlikely ever anything exceptional.

 

[Spun Silver]

This is OT but I really like your name, Werelump!

 

[Hsuhs]

Does anyone know why he doesn't return to her for choreography?

Because he's more comfortable with where he is now?

 

[siberia82]

I know that Shawn didn't even have a fully rotated 3-Axel or a clean 3-lutz during this competition, but his "Amadeus" LP blew my mind away with its exquisite beauty. He has always been well-known for his unique moves and creativity, but this is the first time he tugged at my heart strings with his performance. (That flattering black outfit probably helped, too; I never realized he could soooooo handsome! )

Normally I prefer Johnny's style over Shawn's, but I have to admit that I was far more impressed by "Amadeus" than "Notre-Dame de Paris" (as lovely as the latter may be). Shawn hasn't improved as a competitor, but his artistry has gone up a level with that program while Johnny has stayed the same.

It annoys to me to no end that Evan's excessive arm-flailing and his complete lack of understanding of music are deemed to be worth a full 10 points more in PCS than Shawn's masterpiece. In fact, I actually enjoyed watching Kevin's LP more than Evan's! (And I'm not a fan of jumping beans.) His "tuxedo" costume looked like a horrible cross (no pun intended ) between a sparkly, stretched-out parachute and a mutated penguin.

 

[efreedman]

[
Oh and on a shallow note he needs a haircut-just a tad too long lol.

ITA and Upinski also - it really mars their presentation to me when they appear messy (IMHO)[/QUOTE]


I was there and I agree on the latter but not the former. If Adam were to cut his hair shorter, his ability to wear it curly would be problematic, having seen him at the FOFS breakfast. Uspenski's hair was an abomination; a Prince Valiant bowlcut.

 

[lmarie086]

I was there and I agree on the latter but not the former. If Adam were to cut his hair shorter, his ability to wear it curly would be problematic, having seen him at the FOFS breakfast. Uspenski's hair was an abomination; a Prince Valiant bowlcut.

Then he should tell Morozov to forget the straight hair thing and just let him wear it curly. I personally like the curly hair better than the straight hair on Adam. It's too long for straight hair IMO.
Upenski's hair was definitely an abomination. He needs to rethink that haircut.

I feel so frivolous discussing men's hair .

 

[kyla2]

Europeans

I blame the European influenced ISU for this scoring debacle beacuse that is where it all came from-Europe. So yes, I blame the Europeans. They are fully to blame and good luck to them because if America buys out of this sport there sure isn't enough money in Europe to keep it going. You had better hope the Japanese can pour money into it. As for the person who mentioned George Bush in a derogatory manner, don't go after our President, whatever your politics. He has nothing to do with what is happening in this sport and your connecting him to my comments about the Europeans is tenuous at best and ridiculous at its worst.

Again, if the audience doesn't get it, we are in trouble. It will be a very sad day if we can't get any t.v. channel to carry figure skating for any event, including Nationals and Worlds.

I basically agreed with the result but when you see doube digit variations in points, as compared to single digit numbers in the 6.0 system, it is harder for the casual fan to grasp. The casual fan helps to fill those seats. The 6.0 system was something they could understand even when they didn't agree with the outcome.

 

[jennylovskt]

Valse Triste, The Swan, Otonal, Rondo Capriccioso... all under TAT. His programs outside of Tarasova have been nowhere near the same level. Johnny knows which programs were his masterpieces and his favorites. Does anyone know why he doesn't return to her for choreography? Because she's almost a sure thing.

I might be wrong, but with working under Galina Zmievskaya, I don't see any possibility to have TAT as Johnny's choreographer. They both are iron ladies. How can two such strong, independent women not to clash if they are to work together? I don't think they even want to try to work together.

Congratulations to Kozuka! I agree that he has a bright future.

Johnny Weir's program is, like his SP, disappointing.

I have actually found that Evan tried to control his arm flailing pretty well in the first half of his LP. He even used his hands sometimes to express himself. He will never be as good as some of the artistic skaters but it's a noticable improvement under TAT. I have a feeling that Evan so wanted to use his arm flailing and finally he broke the spell and did what he wanted to do naturally in the second half of the program.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I have to agree with all the posters who suggested that Johnny get some music to suit his style. I would also suggest that he up his Tech. The 3A, his biggest trick is not what it was a few years ago when it wasn't a trick but part of his overall routine. His one time impressive spins are now looking very standard, as is his footwork. Only a die hard Johnny fan could like those costumes. He needs a total revamping, imo, and a consistent quad. He can do all this and again be in the mix for gold.

We have to consider that Evan is just not a lyrical skater and he should return to his macho style. What he can do would be to sell it to the audience a la Plushenko. His Tech is super.

What will it be in LA? They will be facing Joubert, Takahashi, both of whom did not fall apart in Gotenborg and are extremely conistent with quads. Now that Buttle and Lambiel are out of the picture, the bronze medal is availble.

Then, there is Oda, Varonov, Kozuka, Werner (or Brezhina).

It won't be easy for J and E. They may even be contending with Abbott, Bradley, Carrier and a lesson-learned Rippon for a place in the Nats.

 

[museksk8r]

I blame the European influenced ISU for this scoring debacle beacuse that is where it all came from-Europe. So yes, I blame the Europeans. They are fully to blame and good luck to them because if America buys out of this sport there sure isn't enough money in Europe to keep it going. You had better hope the Japanese can pour money into it. As for the person who mentioned George Bush in a derogatory manner, don't go after our President, whatever your politics. He has nothing to do with what is happening in this sport and your connecting him to my comments about the Europeans is tenuous at best and ridiculous at its worst.

The ignore button is such an amazing feature of internet forums.

I'll say whatever I want when I want . . . it's called freedom of speech.

Moving on.........................