Men's short

[bekalc]

Joubert dismissed Buttle's programs at Worlds as not having any "great difficulty", so clearly he doesn't consider Jeff to be his equal as a skater. Brian made no mention of the in-between stuff (that was Buttle and Weir's rebuttal to his argument) as to why he deserved to be the winner; he focused solely on the quad. By his own limited definition of what makes a good athlete, Bradley trumped him in the SP at TEB.

No Joubert doesn't consider Buttle his equal because Buttle doesn't have the quad. But what makes you think he considers Bradley his equal. And who says Joubert only cares about the quad? That's not true and unfair... He has massively improved his spins, his footwork, and his artsitry in the past couple of years. IF Joubert didn't think those things were important, he would not have done those things.

He just thinks the quad isn't rewarded enough in this system. Joubert felt (Lambiel, Daisuke, and himself were in a different class than the rest if I can guess) He didn't think Buttle without the quad, is in that group. But it doesn't mean he thinks that Bradley with his poor skating skill deserves to be in the top class either.

 

[magicalwords]

Patrick Chan was Chantastic!
Unless he messes up big time in LP, he has very high chance of winning his 2nd Gold this season! He was awesome in his SP and he did deserve the score this time. I'm so excited. Chan is one of my favorite skaters and it makes me really happy to see that Chan is doing so well. And he's still so young!

Kozuka didn't fail to impress. He showed that his win at SA wasn't fluke.
Joubert, too bad about his jump but I believe he can do great in LP!!
Preaubert is not out for the podium either!

Men's in TEB is so exciting.

 

[Buttercup]

My 2 cents...

...Artistry is not PCS. And in my opinion artistry should not be PCS. That would limit creativity and make the sport more boring. I think that Joubert deserves about the same PCS Kozuka and Chan get. Small differences (like Joubert getting 0.4 points more than Chan) seem to be purely subjective.

Footwork
With the introduction of COP footwork gained importance - and at the same time lost some of its appeal. Morosov/Nichol footwork sections were seen everywhere, choreographed by everyone. Lambiel was the dazzling exception. But watching the footwork of the three leading men I was amazed by the creativity. There were no slow painful steps with no connection to the music, no senseless flailing, no trying to catch the mice on the ice.

All three men have different but equally creative footwork, that suits the music. With Joubert I couldn't really tell when a footwork section started, he was skating very well to the music and the movements of the inbetweens were related to the movements during the footwork sections, everything belonged together - he had some great footwork last season, and he has great footwork this season, but it's still different from last season.

So all men had very different footwork and very different programs; Joubert had the in-your-face showman footwork plus a very energetic crowd-pleasing performance, Chan had the interpretive footwork - he interpreted the Tango and moved well to the music. Kozuka has the surreal performance, where he doesn't really try to interpret the music (which is pretty complicated with this music anyway) but where the music, the skating, the skater and the expression of the skater come together to paint a picture, where the overall impression makes the program.

I loved those shorts. Amazing skating. Geez, I love the men.

Medusa, thank you so much! That was a fantastic post.

I couldn't watch the SP but this gives not only a clear picture of what happened but also some really interesting insights. In particular I think you made some excellent points about the footwork: there has been a sameness to it in recent years, and it's good to know that some of the guys (and their coaching/choreo teams) are thinking outside the box.

If Brian was truly a man of his word, he would've protested about the unfairness of Ryan being ranked behind him in the SP. Brian's silence seems somewhat hypocritical to me, that's all.

Well, maybe he was preoccupied? Something about being third in an event he really wants to win? And the quad problem?

I don't think Brian thought Jeff's non-quad stuff was that much superior to his. Personally, I thought the standings at Worlds were correct, but that Buttle was given some rather generous GOEs. Anyway, Brian's been going on about the quad for close to five years now - regardless of whether he won, or lost to someone who has a quad (Plush, Lambiel) or to someone without a quad (Buttle, Weir). He thinks it's important that people challenge themselves with the hardest stuff, just like he has challenged himself to improve his spins and presentation (e.g. much as I enjoyed his Untouchables program, in part due the non-hideous costume , he's clearly made huge improvements in spins, footwork and presentation). He has stated in interviews that he likes how the judging system makes you work on everything but that the quad is undervalued. And you know, I believe there have been fewer quads attempted in recent years; last year at Worlds only Brian and Stephane went for 4-3s in the SP, and most guys were doing 3-3s.

But that does not mean Joubert should be expected to defend every guy with a quad, because a. they should speak up for themselves if they wish and b. some of them have issues other than the quad to work on.

I don't know it's just me, but I thought Joubert has become cuter, although I had never gotten why he was considered hot before. His hairstyle changed?

I think Platov suggested he wear it longer. It does look cute. I can't think of him as hot on account of a surprising resemblance to my brother .

 

[Mehdi]

? Is Johnny Weir at Eric Bompard? Please try to stick to the topic, or post in the appropriate folder.

I was not specifically responding to the passage mentionning Johnny Weir. We were discussing Joubert's PCS weren't we ?

Edit : I have to say I'm amazed to be the one asked to stick to the topic for a mere "Thank you" when others bring back the Brian VS Jeff at Worlds thing (no offense to you guys) ...

 

[Mehdi]

He implied with his ill-timed remark that he deserved the gold at Worlds

I don't think he did. He did lack graciousness in the way he reacted but only said he was frustrated that Jeff didn't take more risk.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

What? :scratch: He doesn't expect to challenge for GPF or World medals?

He wants medals, sure. But he isn't really bothered about winning gold this season. He wants to save his effort for next season.

 

[Buttercup]

He wants medals, sure. But he isn't really bothered about winning gold this season. He wants to save his effort for next season.

Yes, while of course everyone wants to win, Joubert has mentioned not going 100% this year and maybe trying some new things. As I understand it, TEB means a lot to him because it's in Frnace, he's sponsored by Eric Bompard, and he was forced to miss it last year when he was ill.

 

[Kinga]

I just rewatched Mens short on Eurosport, and today even more Joubert's program seemed boring, empty and shallow, no transitions whatsoever. It was even not entartaining. He should have been placed 5th.

 

[Bennett]

I think Platov suggested he wear it longer. It does look cute.

Wow, you know everything about Joubert! Nice advice from Platov.

I can't think of him as hot on account of a surprising resemblance to my brother .

Haha. That's funny. But I think it could be a nice little compliment to your brother that he looks like a person who is considered to be one of the cutest in the field

 

[bekalc]

Joubert's program has little transitions although it looks super fast. However his footwork is spectacular. My favorite footwork of the season so far. It goes so well with the music and he hits the beats of the music.. One of my favorite movements is when he does the running thing with his blades (it reminds me of an old dance) It's brilliant footwork.

He has stated in interviews that he likes how the judging system makes you work on everything but that the quad is undervalued. And you know, I believe there have been fewer quads attempted in recent years; last year at Worlds only Brian and Stephane went for 4-3s in the SP, and most guys were doing 3-3s.

Thank you. I never got the impression that Joubert felt the quad was the only thing that mattered.

 

[enlight78]

I don't think he did. He did lack graciousness in the way he reacted but only said he was frustrated that Jeff didn't take more risk.

I think this is funny since Brian didn't take more risk by doing more complex choerography and trasitions like buttle ;since it makes the elements harder.

 

[Mehdi]

I think this is funny since Brian didn't take more risk by doing more complex choerography and trasitions like buttle ;since it makes the elements harder.

It sure makes them harder. However, I still think that going for a 4/3 combination in the short is gutsier than just doing a 3/3, hoping for the other big guns to make mistakes on their harder tries.

Let's go back to the main topic now.

 

[Mathman]

Mehdi, I have edited my post 108 appropriately.

 

[bekalc]

I think this is funny since Brian didn't take more risk by doing more complex choerography and trasitions like buttle ;since it makes the elements harder.

Yes, but Joubert skates with a lot more speed than Buttle does. And huge amounts of speed makes things more difficult too. In someways I think it makes it a wash (difficult wise)

 

[alekzu]

WOW! I absolutely loved Chans SP! Didn't watch it during SC, so this totally blew me away. Awesome. Can't wait to see what he has to offer in the FS.

 

[turtle]

WOW! I absolutely loved Chans SP! Didn't watch it during SC, so this totally blew me away. Awesome. Can't wait to see what he has to offer in the FS.

I've just watched his SP again and find that all the changes in the angle and direction of his head during his step sequences are so effective in expressing the music. I think Lori Nicole did a superb job with his programs.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think Platov suggested he wear it longer. It does look cute. I can't think of him as hot on account of a surprising resemblance to my brother .

and Morozov wants Rippon to straighten his curly hair. I guess the Russians believe in grooming their students for competition.

 

[Buttercup]

and Morozov wants Rippon to straighten his curly hair. I guess the Russians believe in grooming their students for competition.

Joe, you make it sound like they're in the running for best in show!

 

[icyboid]

I just watched Brian Joubert's SP and am absolutely appalled that he got over 7 for transitions and choreography. For the first minute of his program he's largely gliding on two feet or doing crossovers and there's nothing choreographically more difficult than a three-turn.

The footwork was amazing, but it just makes the program seem that much more unbalanced.