- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Buttercup and I were having a conversation about various programs we liked that essentially spiralled into a conversation about COP aesthetics, underrated skaters and musicality. We were hoping to get more people involved in this discussion, so here are the most relevant parts, edited for flow (like I said, we rather hopscotched around; the original discussion had even more examples). So here goes
* Buttercup would like to add that she is not, in fact, a big fan of techno; she just thinks it's a good fit for Joubert's style, and agrees that Moby's music could work well for him.
”ImaginaryPogue” said:A while ago, we were discussing musicality on the forums and you said something about finding Amodio the most musical skater currently competing. I wasn’t sure I agreed with you but what I find interesting in this discussion is the difference between natural and learned musicality.
There are skaters like Buttle, Abbott, Lambiel and Mao Asada who seem just naturally musical. They have a way of instinctively understanding those beats in the music and how to convey them, in terms of body and face (even Amodio’s Michael Jackson FP was a darker, more emotionally contentious take than what Verner or Bourne/Kraatz did in their programs). They’re often thrilling to watch. Then there are those that don’t seem quite so natural. They can be musical, but it’s harder and it’s more learned than natural. They love skating but aren’t natural performers. I’m thinking skaters like Yu Na Kim, Joannie Rochette and Patrick Chan off the top of my head. Their musicality interests me equally even though it’s often more intellectual than emotional.
To me, the team of Virtue/Moir epitomizes this difference. I don’t quite agree that Tessa has less range than Scott. I do think she has to work harder at her expression than he does, though. Even with something right inside their wheelhouse (Mahler), it took her until Canadians to really understand how to express the music without seeming too one note, whereas Scott took to it right away. The flamenco you mentioned. I was worried about how Tessa would do because she doesn’t have that high-toned, arrogant sexuality the piece needs, but by the Olympics, she more than matched Scott (check out her expression at the end of the straight line footwork sequence. She’s breathing fire). To me, the fact that the two FDs where they were furthest from their métier (Pink Floyd, Samba) were the ones where she had the least time to work on her expression. And even then I’d consider them both successful.
”Buttercup” said:(Regarding) Dai, I've said this before but something about his musical expression seems forced to me; I can't quite articulate what. But I have enjoyed some of his programs, such as his work with Kenji Miyamoto (it was the Bachelorette EX that really sold me on him). Both Dai and Stephane Lambiel do have charisma in spades.
What stands out about Amodio for me is his ability to "get" different types of music, how to express them, how to connect with the audience with different musical styles – he is just pitch perfect. That sort of innate musicality and understanding of musical expression is very rare. If I had to compare to Takahashi, the best I can do is that Dai seems to be overthinking it compared to Flo; it's more cerebral, like he's telling himself what to do. Florent just gets it in a way that doesn't require him to think at all; he's in the music and in the performance.
Your point about V/M in particular is a good one, and I'll keep it in mind when watching them skate in the future. I do still think that there are some things Tessa just can't do, but it's worth looking at how she expresses the music early in the season vs. toward the end. Scott is a natural – she has to work harder, and sometimes the difference can be jarring, but maybe I need to consider it as two complimentary styles rather than one being better than the other.
”ImaginaryPogue” said:Does “thinking it through/cerebral” mean “forced”, though? I agree that Amodio has an innate understanding of music which allows him to be in the music/performance that few skaters are capable of, but I think there’s a progression from “thinking-it-through” to “forced” (which, as we’re saving Joubert for the end of this instalment, will have to wait).
”Buttercup” said:During 2010 Worlds, someone (on FSU?) wrote that for the SP, Brian was the only skater who stayed on the beat throughout. Lightbulb moment for me: Brian skates to the beat, while many skaters considered musical skate primarily to the melody. I bet this is why he does so many techno-ish programs; that is his strength and what he responds to. I believe he is capable of good musical interpretation when he connects with the music on whatever level, but he’s not good when he’s trying to force himself into getting it (e.g. the LotM LP). Hallelujah was not at all his usual thing, but clearly he felt something for the music, and it showed (though in all honesty, the choreo was standard “quiet gala number” Joubert). So in his case, there is no “learned” musicality: either he gets it (even if not immediately) or he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, he can’t offer a remotely convincing musical interpretation. Whereas some skaters can learn to respond to/express music even if they don’t really connect with it. So I would classify Joubert as having natural musicality but a very specific type of it, unlike Stephane or Flo with their amazing range.
I thought his SP showed promise at the Masters but it never quite came together. He said right after Worlds that he regretted doing it, and later told IFS magazine that "Perhaps, I did just three or four clean run-throughs in practices overall... every mistake would mean I had to catch up with the music. It was stressful. I was concerned. I was very happy with Antonio Najarro’s flamenco, but if I stumbled during the routine, I had to cut out some of the moves and steps he crafted for me.”
I think he did eventually get his LP music, and that’s why he’s keeping it (also, he only skated it three times internationally, and two went quite well). I loved how he ended it at Worlds, after he landed the flip. By then he knows he can’t medal, and after he lands the 3F, he completely ignores his choreo for a few seconds to do his favorite exhibition move instead. In that moment, you can see how happy he is with the program, the performance, and the music. It’s not good CoP, but it’s just so joyful; very retro-Brian, in that respect. Though I could be reading too much into it. Then he botched the final spin, possibly because his hand was bleeding badly (he was spraying blood all over the place), but it’s a happy ending for the program and the season.
” ImaginaryPogue” said:I guess generally what bugs me about Joubert is that the techno he does choose tends to be all surface, so consequently, his skate is all surface. I mentioned “Hallelujah” and while the choreography might not have been unique, it seemed so for him. That and it came utterly out of left field. I tend not to rewatch ex programs, but that’s one I’ll revisit from time to time. I’m not sure how big a fan of techno you are (I’m somewhat in the middle), but imagine if he chose something densely layered like Basement Jaxx or contextually rich, like Moby (and if you are a big fan, I apologize for mentioning him).
And this brings me to another question: I’ve mentioned time and time again that I don’t believe in figure skating as art, I believe in it as sport. An aesthetic sport, to be sure, but still sport. So I wonder if my complaint about surface musicality really jives with that. But on the other hand, I compare Joubert’s “Matrix” with Buttle’s “Nagoyqaatsi” (both pieces of music that are from technology obsessed films), and Joubert entertains me whereas Buttle astonishes me (I find the besti-squat Buttle does one of the single best figure skating moments I can recall, and the whole thing has an incredible emotional tenor I’ve never experienced in the sport
* Buttercup would like to add that she is not, in fact, a big fan of techno; she just thinks it's a good fit for Joubert's style, and agrees that Moby's music could work well for him.