new interview with Johnny Weir

[slutskayafan21]

I know....and I'm so excited

Excited because of the strong fields at those two events, or excited because Johnny will have this huge challenge with his assignments that he will have to try and overcome and show what he is made of?

 

[emma]

Excited because of the strong fields at those two events, or excited because Johnny will have this huge challenge with his assignments that he will have to try and overcome and show what he is made of?

Oh, sorry - I'm being unclear again! I'm excited by the strong fields at those two events AND because while Johnny will have a huge challenge there, it sounds like he is gearing up for it (so, I'm hopeful that he will indeed be part of the strong field).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Let the poor guy skate the GPs, understand from them what he needs to improve his program, then have a sincere, at his best, skate during Nats. There should be no problem for the podium, unless 2 of those nuvo jr. boys gets the 'roar of the crowd' Odds are it will only be 1, if any.

His choach and choreographer both live in the US and hopefully they will be in St.Paul to make the final tweakings before Worlds which will be at least 6 weeks away.

There is no lock on the Men's podium at Worlds. That's what makes it the most interesting division of the whole Sport this year.

Joe

 

[twinsissv]

I don't know. I almost wish he he would forget the quad and get his mojo back.

Two magnificent triple Axels (one in combination), triple Lutz/triple toe, triple flip/triple loop, a couple of triple jumps out of footwork, put it together with his eye-popping smoothness and strength, his secure edges, his attention to detail, his musicality -- I don't think he needs the quad at all.

:agree:


:yes:

 

[layido]

he hasnt beaten Lambiel since they were juniors

Well, I think that's not correct.
Weir beat Lambiel in 2001 World Junior Championshiop.
He was 1st, and Lambiel was 5th.

 

[Mathman]

I think Slutskayafan meant that Juniors was the last time that Weir won, and that Johnny has never beaten Stephane in Seniors.

Coming back to the quad, I just noticed that of the top six highest scoring short programs ever performed, three of them (Takahashi, Oda and Weir) did not have a quad, and three did (Plushenko, Joubert and Lambiel).

I don't know if that proves anything, but a quad is just one element.

 

[jennylovskt]

Coming back to the quad, I just noticed that of the top six highest scoring short programs ever performed, three of them (Takahashi, Oda and Weir) did not have a quad, and three did (Plushenko, Joubert and Lambiel).

I don't know if that proves anything, but a quad is just one element.

This is one good thing about CoP. "Quad is just one element."

Thanks Care Bear for posting this interview. It is very entertaining because it has covered a lot of areas.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

This is one good thing about CoP. "Quad is just one element."

We had pages and pages of Lambiel's problematic 3A which was only one element but there were many posts saying he MUST have it. One has to read carefully about generalizations.

Joe

 

[emma]

I would be totally thrilled if Weir, or Buttle or...and name anyone else...would land the podium without a particular element - say a quad, or say a triple axel - simply because everything else was so good or so well put together. The only reason I am emphasizing the quad for Weir has to do with what I said earlier - creating a momentum of dominance that makes him, well, like Plushenko or anyone else at the top - the one to chase. I happen to think Weir is good enough to be that person, and again, given the quads we have seen in practice in the past (and if he is able to return to that form) it seems to me like good stamina/endurance and work on comeptition nerves (and what that does to sap energy/agility from the body) is what he would have to work on - the technique and jump ability is already there (or was).

I totally agree, though, that first comes getting back to form.

PS - about Lambiel and Triple Axel - I actually didn't say he needed it - in his case, he has quads that help offset any point problems with the triple axel. Yet, seems like Lambiel feels he needs at least one triple axel in his programs (and he might NOT on a particular night given the ice is slippery, but I suspect all of the top skaters prepare/plan to outskate good skates, not bad ones).

And I too like COP because it does seem to create an array of possibilities for which particular elements/ how points are accumulated.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

PS - about Lambiel and Triple Axel - I actually didn't say he needed it - in his case, he has quads that help offset any point problems with the triple axel. Yet, seems like Lambiel feels he needs at least one triple axel in his programs (and he might NOT on a particular night given the ice is slippery, but I suspect all of the top skaters prepare/plan to outskate good skates, not bad ones).

And I too like COP because it does seem to create an array of possibilities for which particular elements/ how points are accumulated.

I watched Stephane in the warm up for the SP. He was intent on making the 3A and consistenly missed it. During the competition, he overrotated it. However he was fine in the LP. So it was a demon at worst. Should be over it now. And more than the quad, for me, it was that Flamenco that made him a star.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I would be totally thrilled if Weir, or Buttle or...and name anyone else...would land the podium without a particular element - say a quad, or say a triple axel - simply because everything else was so good or so well put together...

And I too like COP because it does seem to create an array of possibilities for which particular elements/ how points are accumulated.

ITA. And yet...there does seem to be a certain consistency as to what wins championships these days.

All of the top five men's LPs at worlds had three big elements planned.

Takahashi: 1 quad, 2 triple Axels.
Lambiel: 2 quads, 1 triple Axel.
Joubert: 1 quad (intending also a quad combo, but he backed off to a 3T/3T), 1 triple Axel.
Verner: 2 quads, 1 triple Axel.
Lysacek: 1 quad, 2 triple Axels.

The only other man who had similar content was Preaubert , with 1 quad and 2 triple Axels planned, but he fell on one of them and finished 11th.

After the top five, the technical content fell off dramatically.

So it seems like, yes there are lots of thing you can get points for, but if you go in without the Big Two (quad and 3A) you are playing catch-up.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I personally am not of the belief that you seemingly absolutely cant hope to win a major championships, or perhaps even medal in a major championships, without all the most demanding and important jumps-quad, triple axel, triple-triple combo, is a reflection of too much emphasis being placed on one element, or on the jumps in general. I just think the mens field is much too deep now to hope to rise to the top missing one of the most important jumps from your arsenal/program. The mens field is currently one of the deepest ever arguably. I dont remember the last time there were this many worthy contenders of this high a quality, even without Plushenko present. So it is understandable you cant realisticaly hope perhaps even for a top 3 finish spotting the field that major advantage/disadvantage for yourself.

Skaters the quality of Buttle and Weir in other aspects, sure they could beat alot of skaters with all the most important jumps based on these other aspects. They wont win, and probably wont medal though, missing the quad for example, not because too much emphasis is placed on one element, but because the field is just too strong not to put everything out there when you are trying to come out on top of such an incredible field. It is not like there are not guys at the top now who have the complete package and have all the most important jumps as well.

In Weirs case imparticular, he absolutely needs to throw the kitchen sink out there this season I think. He imparticular cant even think of not going with a full arsenal of all the jumps, including the quad, preferably 1 in the short and 2 in the free skate, and fully COP-maxed out programs. I dont mean to paint a bleak picture, but view him from the angle an international judge probably views him now. He is now a middle aged skater who has dropped gradualy in the World standings, now only 8th, when he was 4th two years ago, and with Plushenko possibly returning to boot. He has regularly lost to all of Plushenko (although I am doubting his return now but we will see), Buttle, Lambiel, Lysacek for a couple of years or more now. He had just been clearly surpassed by the two young Japanese Oda and Takahashi over the last season. Verner and others are on the move up. He has never won a World medal, and we are now at a point younger and newer people are on the rise, and the field is only getting tougher.

He has seemingly lost alot of status, and with the incredible depth in the mens field, and the amount of time that has already passed without truly making it, he is in danger of being lost in the shuffle for good, atleast on the international level. His scores from the judges are in some cases quite telling. Whereas last year at the Olympics an inspired short program cracked the 80 point barrier, and at U.S Nationals an exquisite short program topped 83; yet this year at U.S Nationals with a wonderful short program skate he could not even match his Olympics score under the lax inflated U.S Nationals scoring and barely topped 78, even losing the short program to Lysacek. He could only manage in the mid 70s range for his multiple clean shorts during the season internationaly, while others like Oda, Takahashi, Joubert, were generaly upping their short program scores from past seasons. Lambiel had two nightmarish short programs at Worlds and Skate Canada, yet Weir with a clean (Skate Canada) and semi-clean (Worlds) was still beaten by Lambiels personal short program nightmare on the PCS both times. The judges at U.S Nationals were willing to dish out a virtual 170 before Weir even set foot on the ice, that was after a clean Weir had already lost the short program to Lysacek doing the same jumps.

I think Weir imparticular is in no position to think he could even think of leaving out anything and aspiring to any major goal this year. He literaly has to fight like he has never fought before in his career perhaps. He needs to come out armed with everything he possibly can, quads, triple axels, the kitchen sink if neccessary like I said. He needs to do COP-maxed programs and skate them almost perfectly from the get go. If he wants to even entertain thoughts of a medal of any color at Worlds it will take absolutely everything. He is a big time underdog going into this season, there is no way around that fact, and he is in absolutely no position to roll the dice on what he can or cant do. I am almost certain this is a make-or-break year for him, if he hasnt already been lost in the shuffle already, and if I was his new coach I would be frank with him about it and tell him that he has to try and go for everything, since he has a long road to climb.

 

[jennylovskt]

Great analysis, slutskayafan!

CoP is open-ended. Weir, or Buttle, or anyone else couldn't make it to the podium without quad and triple axel is not because CoP emphasized too much about these big elements. It is because everyone else skate other elements (Other than quad and triple axel) equally or almost equally good as Weir and Buttle. In many cases in the past a couple of years, other people skated some other elements better. Of course, given some particular competitions, there is a chance that Weir or Buttle could end up on the podium without quad or triple axel if the rest of the field faltered. That is one and only way they could. This chance is so slim now.

Talent wise, Weir has the ability to be on the top. Mentally, I am skeptical, and doubt about it. If Weir could overcome his self-doubt, forget about his age, (he felt he was old last year, and he felt he is older this year.) forget about fashions for now, totally give his life to skating, he will be great. Can he do that? Wait and see.

 

[emma]

Sounds like we are in agreement, Slutskayafan --- I love reference to he needs it all including the 'kitchen sink'

I will say, though, that as long as he appears strong and confident - regardless of his rank - I will be happy this season; it was hard to watch him last year, I just felt bad for him.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As Peggy Lee would sing 'If that all there is (a 3A), then let's keep dancing', and forget about competitions.

 

[jennylovskt]

I will be thrilled if Weir could get his Nationals title back this season regardless anything else. There is a great chance.

 

[twinsissv]

As Peggy Lee would sing 'If that all there is (a 3A), then let's keep dancing',

"...and break out the booze, and have a ball..if that's all...there is."

I truly hope that Johnny has more...but at least we can all get plastered! (drown our sorrows...that is.)

 

[slutskayafan21]

Yeah I would love to see Johnny win the National title back. I did not mean to offend any Weir fans with my stance, and I am glad to see I didnt, atleast the ones who responded.

I was just being a realist, and trying to give as accurate an evaluation as I could of how I genuinely see his situation now, and just the general feeling I have at this point based on all the little signs I see and what has been happening. That isnt to say I see no hope, just that this year is a hugely important year for now, and he is not neccessarily starting the season in a favorable position with regards to his spot on the pecking order among the international elite, and will have to work his butt off to change that and force his way into a more promiment role. If he succeeds it will show he is a very strong person, and it will be fun to see him try.

 

[antmanb]

I think Slutskayafan meant that Juniors was the last time that Weir won, and that Johnny has never beaten Stephane in Seniors.

Coming back to the quad, I just noticed that of the top six highest scoring short programs ever performed, three of them (Takahashi, Oda and Weir) did not have a quad, and three did (Plushenko, Joubert and Lambiel).

I don't know if that proves anything, but a quad is just one element.

I'd like to believe that MM, but i think, much like in the ladies division with the 3A, the point you get for those quads is too much to overcome with perfect skating and good choregoraphy/interpretation. Some of the men are scheduling two or three quads in a program, that is two or three jump elements that have higher tariffs than the hardest johnny might attempt (3A). He'd have to make up the points in other areas and i'm not sure that enough points can be made in other areas.

Ant

 

[Dee4707]

I will be thrilled if Weir could get his Nationals title back this season regardless anything else. There is a great chance.

I would love to see that too. If he is serious this year, I know he can do it.

Dee