Pairs Free Skate

[Doggygirl]

I didn't see this posted, so here's the results link.

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa05/SEG006.HTM

All I can say about the Putnam and Wirtz program is WOW!!!!!

DG

ETA: And WOW on that current 20 point lead on the German pair who were in front of them after the short. VERY well deserved and I'm glad the judges gave credit. Hopefully there was enough credit given.

 

[Saundy]

Wow...what a jump from both Canadian teams. They seem to be the only ones thus far to skate cleanly. Way to go! Personal bests for both! I can't wait to see what they landed.

 

[Doggygirl]

And now Hinzmann and Parchem (IMO) laid down an awesome performance. But I'm still GLAD to see that a deserving team can move from 7th in the short and surpass the team that was 2nd in the short, and rightly so, IMO. Not sure how much of that we would ever see under 6.0. The pairs for me is turning out to be THE segment to watch. (although I enjoyed the others too). I hope to goodness I/B skate before CCTV5 coverage stops!

DG

 

[emma]

So, I just spent the last 20 minutes speed reading the pbp on FSU...I should have been watching the feed, it sounded sooooo exciting. I'm sorry I/B had a fall on the throw 3axel...but how exciting that it's in the program and she has landed in practice!!! Wow, and they came in second!!! Also....the Zhangs had some mighty marks...I can't wait to see this program!!!!

 

[JOHIO2]

emma,

I&B's triple axel was gorgeous in warm-up. I was even more psyched about their attempt 'cuz of warm-up. But now I feel sure they'll manage a clean one in competition soon.

As for me, I know I wasn't alone in questioning the scoring in the pairs program. I swear the judges didn't see the same programs I saw. As we waited for Marcy and Aaron's score, I commented to my neighbor that even the judges couldn't have missed how good they skated. Their scores prompted a groan from my section. Then, all thru Obertas and Slav's fairly sloppy free program, I kept muttering that "this the judges will like." When it proved too true on the scoreboard, the audience booed. Now, I can feel sorry for the Russian team. The boo wasn't for them. Granted their program performance wasn't stellar, but why were they rewarded with so many points for so little clean skating?

 

[Ptichka]

Actually, P&W were ahead of O&S in the free. The reason P&W did not get the bronze was because of their SP, where they were actually 7th! Likewise, while in the short O&S were behind Hinzmann & Parchem, the latter only came 6th in the free. So ultimately, the bronze went to the Russians because they were more consistent than other teams.

 

[dorispulaski]

Not entirely. O&S were more consistent than P&W, but H&P's problem was that their LP elements were much easier than the pairs that were ahead of them.
(1 and 2 Levels, mostly). Their elements were well done, and scored postively, except for the 3Tw (where they had a chest crash) and a 2T that was due to one of them not doing the 3T.

Their SP, however, had higher value elements, and I expect they will be beefing up their LP before Nationals.

But hooray for I&B! Who knew they could beat O&S.

(It helps that the base value of the 3Ath is 8.33, and even if you don't land it, and get an additional -1 penalty for falling, it scores 5.33)

 

[ATW27]

Not entirely. O&S were more consistent than P&W, but H&P's problem was that their LP elements were much easier than the pairs that were ahead of them.
(1 and 2 Levels, mostly). Their elements were well done, and scored postively, except for the 3Tw (where they had a chest crash) and a 2T that was due to one of them not doing the 3T.

Their SP, however, had higher value elements, and I expect they will be beefing up their LP before Nationals.

But hooray for I&B! Who knew they could beat O&S.

(It helps that the base value of the 3Ath is 8.33, and even if you don't land it, and get an additional -1 penalty for falling, it scores 5.33)

Doris, thank you for the explaination... I was trying to work out how O&S placed 3rd with their effort in the free. I understand now. Still not sure I entirely agree with it.. but hey, that's the judging system, like it or hate it.
Watching ABC's coverage today, I realy wish they would have at least also shown Putnam & Wirtz's skate; I would have much rather have seen that than the update on T&M (couldn't they have saved that for T&M's season debut at Bompard in a few weeks? I know, the fall happened at Skate America, but still...), and the lengthy golf update at the end. If only ABC would show more...

Andy W.

 

[iluvtodd]

Putnam & Wirtz were great! Unfortunately ABC chacked them. :no: The other Canadian pair, Dube & Davison were delightful to watch too. Hey, I also wanted to see Evora & Ladwig. 4 pairs in one hour of coverage? Disgraceful! :disapp:

 

[JOHIO2]

I say that Hinzman and Parchem settle the question - which scores better, a lower level skill down well or a higher level skill done badly? O/S's consistantly high scores on that skate and H/P's scores on that skate seem to settle it from the judging standpoint. O/S were just plain sloppy and still outscored a well skated program. Apparently, judges WON'T give the +++ scores for a well skated lower level skill. Period.

 

[Vash01]

The negative GOE's are not negative enough when an element is not done right, for a higher base marks program. We have seen it in other disciplines too (e.g. Buttle's high marks after making so many mistakes). That's where the 6.0 system was better because it did take into account the overall impression.

It seems I&B have the correct strategy. They go for things like sbs 3lutzes which they have never landed in competitions, and now the throw triple axel (they have a better chance of landing this one because Rena is a better athlete than John B.). Even when they don't complete the element they get fairly high marks just for trying.

Vash

 

[hockeyfan228]

I don't think that 6.0 was immune from getting points for trying; the mistakes were a different set of mistakes. Underrotated jumps and combinations that stopped dead with little flow got plenty of unearned credit under 6.0, while mistakes on jumps negated other elements, like spins, footwork, spirals, missing choreography, lots of rest stops, etc. CoP values the ability to rotate more than the ability to land. That's a specific decision that the ISU made, while in the past, the judges were free to create their own relative values.

The scores for technical elements are cumulative. PCS are entirely based in overall impression.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm with the Putnam and Wirtz team as the future of Canadian Pairs. Their standing ovation was justified. the other Canadian team was also very promising. Another standing ovation, btw.

The surprise for me for I&B was their conistency throughout. that with the increased speed into all the elements and a very interesting program makes them very competitive for a chance for the Final.

O&S were standard Moskvina. But no where near B&S.

H&P - I was really pulling for them in the LP after that wonderful Short Program.
They've arrived anyhow and just may make the Olympic Team. I think the americans only get two places. So it'll be a tough race.

Joe

 

[rain]

I don't think that 6.0 was immune from getting points for trying; the mistakes were a different set of mistakes. Underrotated jumps and combinations that stopped dead with little flow got plenty of unearned credit under 6.0, while mistakes on jumps negated other elements, like spins, footwork, spirals, missing choreography, lots of rest stops, etc. CoP values the ability to rotate more than the ability to land. That's a specific decision that the ISU made, while in the past, the judges were free to create their own relative values.

The scores for technical elements are cumulative. PCS are entirely based in overall impression.

While I totally agree with this assessment of where things stand, I also can't help but think that unsuccessfully completed elements are not getting penalized enough. I know it's a fine balance between encouraging skaters to try harder skills and the desire to see good, well-done elements, but right now it seems that skaters are putting things in programs they know they can't do just because even when the fail they know they'll get some serious points for them.

Which leads me specifically to my comments about the pairs event at SA. Just saw it this weekend on CBC and a few things struck me. First, let me say I LOVED Putnam and Wirtz. I've really liked this team since I first saw them several years ago - thought they had that elusive "something" that could take them places - but as the years ticked by with little improvement evident, I started to wonder. But it all came together for them at SA. Sure, still some improvements to be made, but man did they SELL that skate. I have never seen them - or virtually any other team actually - look like they were having that much fun out on the ice. WOW is all I can say. I can't wait for Canadians.

As for the younger Canadian team, Dube and Davison, they were wonderful as well. So much potential there. Such effortless unison. They looked right at home in the senior ranks.

Now, onto the bad.... The top pairs looked like they were skating a series of elements. Where are the great programs? They're now so cluttered with STUFF as the teams try to squeeze every possible extra point out of every element that the programs on the whole look messy, have little to no feeling, are riddled with errors and almost entirely without musicality. I couldn't have agreed more with commentator Paul Martini when he mentioned the almost complete lack of a decent-looking death spiral out of any of the teams as they attempt to come up with some kind of new variation on the move - it is still nice, and the points should reflect this - to see a truly good, classic position as opposed to some half-assed, if difficult, "new" twist. Further, I've noticed the lack of decent pairs side by side spins and am also wondering if this isn't another area where pairs are encouraged to have lots and lots of changes of position to gain extra marks, even if they lose all synch with each other as they try something they can't really do.

The Zhangs actually looked as if they had improved their artistic skating - such a robotic couple before - huge tricks, but robotic. That said, their program still struck me as a series of elements rather than a cohesive whole. Unfortunately this seems to be the general trend in pairs right now, and I have no doubt they'll be challenging for the podium in Torino.

Obertas and Slavnov - Their freeskate was dreadful. I really liked this team and thought they had great potential when I first saw them several years ago, however IMO they have never progressed significantly. They are a case in point of a team jamming their FS full of stuff at the expense of the artistry. Their free last year was a travesty and this year's isn't any better from what I could tell. I would go so far as to say their choreography is a waste of what could be a classically beautiful team.

 

[Mathman]

Excellent post, Rain -- also the post on the men's thread. I appreciate your insights.

MM