Point Changes You Like See Next Year

[TtonyV7]

Another year goes by with the PCS system, some good, some bad of course. However, after seeing the world championship there a few point changes I would make.


Triple-Triple Sequences : The judges are now more strict on what counts as a sequence, however the point values still remains at (-20%), which doesn't seem right to me. I feel that some sequences are quite more difficult than regular combinations. I can understand adding a step into a Triple toe would be easier, but sequences that end in a triple salchow, loop, and flip are quite challenging. I imagine skaters having a more difficult time with a T.Toe - h/lp - T.Loop versus at T.Toe-T.Toe, however the combination is worth more. I do not know what would be the best solution, but some jump sequences should be worth more (and I think they add more variety in skating)

Complete Triples in Ladies Programs: A little sad to see so many of the top ladies at world not have complete triple programs. Should a skater be penalize for not having all triples... No. But how about adding a 2 or 3 point bonus for a skater who completes all triples (minus triple axle). Jam packing programs with Lutzs, Flips. and d.axles to maximize points is just a little...eh.

Layback Spins: My gosh, can we just leave this spin alone! Layback spins don't exist anymore, it's literally a catchfoot spin in a layback position ending with a beilman position. We should just limit the layback to two positions, and give points on skaters who can really do it properly.

Moves in the Field: Ok, I know this is suppose to fall in the "Transitions" category, but really, compulsories have fallen out the window. Programs are jumps, then spins, then jumps, then spins, and then one hand movement to say oh look, i'm in character. What I would do to see a simple spread eagle across the ice..... Perhaps a new requirement is to add a "Moves in the Field" section in the program. IDK...

 

[screech]

Moves in the Field: Ok, I know this is suppose to fall in the "Transitions" category, but really, compulsories have fallen out the window. Programs are jumps, then spins, then jumps, then spins, and then one hand movement to say oh look, i'm in character. What I would do to see a simple spread eagle across the ice..... Perhaps a new requirement is to add a "Moves in the Field" section in the program. IDK...

I agree. Actually I think that instead of 2 step sequences the men should be required to do a sequence of field moves, whether spirals, spread eagles, bauers, pivots, hydro blading, whatever. Women should only have to do a sequence of field moves as well I think (as long as at least 1 spiral included). It shows more versatility of all skaters (male or female) if it's required. And I bet some of those just focused on jumps would realize a new definition for 'difficuly' in a program if they had to do bauers and spread eagles for a section of their program!

 

[redhotcoach]

I agree with the layback spins comment - and let me add camel-donut spins too! Those contortionist positions that garner higher levels on both the layback and the camel spin -- are not an athletic achievement but rather an innate physical ability. Sure some skaters can stretch the crap out of themselves and achieve a someone modest biellmann or donut....but the majority of skaters just aren't built that way and no amount of flexibility exercises will give them a Level 4 camel or layback....just like the charlotte spiral or needle spin.

Should we be awarding levels and points based on natural ability or completion of set requirements?

In addition - why can't men do spiral sequences. Sure is a lot easier to get a level 4 spiral sequence than a level 2 footwork sequence...

 

[gio]

I'll make this rule: instead of three combo or sequences allowed per program, I'll say two combo and one sequence allowed.
In this way we will be able to see many new innovative and interesting sequences such as 3A/half loop/3F

Compulsory music (folk, latin ...) for SP, so skaters have to show they are versatile.

 

[Mathman]

^ That's a great idea about the "required" sequence. The rule could be that the second jump could not be a loop or a toe-loop.

 

[Medusa]

^ That's a great idea about the "required" sequence. The rule could be that the second jump could not be a loop or a toe-loop.

I am not in favour of a required sequence. Weren't we talking about not having to many restrictions in the lp before Worlds? That would be one hell of a restriction. Why not leave it open and just change the value of the sequences so that the skater can chose between sequence or combo without having to think about the points?

The same with the moves in the field section. Why not allowing the skater to chose if he wants to do step sequences, spiral sequences or moves in the field? He can do two of these things, either two step sequences, or a spiral and a step sequence, or moves in the field and a step sequence...

 

[Mathman]

The sequence would not really be required. The proposed rule would be, you can do three multi-jump passes. At least one of them must end in some other jump than a toe or loop. This would be in the same spirit as the Zayak rules -- you can't do the same old, same old in all three of your combos.

 

[Medusa]

The sequence would not really be required. The proposed rule would be, you can do three multi-jump passes. At least one of them must end in some other jump than a toe or loop. This would be in the same spirit as the Zayak rules -- you can't do the same old, same old in all three of your combos.

Yep, and every lady is going to end up doing a Double-Axel - Double-Axel - sequence, because it's the easiest one and most people can do one anyway, you also don't waste your Triple jumps on it, most ladies do one Double Axel in each program anyway - why not tack on a second one? Mao would probably do 2A-2T-2A sequence instead of her 2A-2T-2R - problem solved!

I really don't think that you can increase the technical diversity by more and more rules. Lots of skaters will just see it as a further strange regulation and try to find the easiest way to obey this new rule. And we will see lots and lots of Double-Axel sequences. It's the same with the "Upper-body-movement" in the footwork - probably a good idea in the first place, but now every skater seems to try to catch a mouse on the ice and flails her/his arms and upper body towards the ice every 5 seconds.

IMHO, we don't need any more rules. It's hard to enforce more diversity by more regulations.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I agree. Actually I think that instead of 2 step sequences the men should be required to do a sequence of field moves, whether spirals, spread eagles, bauers, pivots, hydro blading, whatever. Women should only have to do a sequence of field moves as well I think (as long as at least 1 spiral included). It shows more versatility of all skaters (male or female) if it's required. And I bet some of those just focused on jumps would realize a new definition for 'difficuly' in a program if they had to do bauers and spread eagles for a section of their program!

I would LOVE seeing that. two step sequences is one too many. After the first one, we all get the idea, especilly in the Short program... it seems like never ending footwork.

more rules that have to go are "you have to hold the spirls for 3 sec or you get a level one"

 

[Medusa]

more rules that have to go are "you have to hold the spirls for 3 sec or you get a level one"

Ah, yes please!!!! It often looks dreadful and painful if the girls try to hold it and start shaking etc...

 

[Mathman]

Yep, and every lady is going to end up doing a Double-Axel - Double-Axel - sequence, because it's the easiest one and most people can do one anyway, you also don't waste your Triple jumps on it, IMHO...

Oh, I don't knoiw about that. Why wouldn't someone try a 3Lo+3F sequence and get 11.5 points instead of 7 points for 2A+2A? (Part of the deal is no 20% deduction for the sequence.)

Again, you wouln't be required to do anything at all.

As an extra bonus, maybe this would get rid of some of those triple sometting/double toe/double loop combos that come to a complete stop.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think once they have settled on what is required, it should be in a longer SP. Let the LP be governed by the skater. The only restriction in the FREE program would be a term 'not a skating element'. Think of how wonderful (or awful) skaters can be again!

Otherwise I would like to see the Spiral with a hand hold banned. It's so ugly.

Joe

 

[bleuchick]

Ban leggings over skates while spiraling and holding foot.


:scowl:

 

[exNyer2]

I would only like to see the same requirements for men and women.
2 step sequences for men and women (I looooooooooooooovvvvve them)
Moves in the field sequences (as in the past) are challenging and beautiful.
I have never understood why women are required to do spiral sequences and layback spins. Very sexist.

 

[rjulie510]

Dear ISU: A Biellman spin is NOT a layback spin, and you know this already. So stop recognizing Biellman spin as a difficult layback spin variation.

 

[blue dog]

Dear ISU: A Biellman spin is NOT a layback spin, and you know this already. So stop recognizing Biellman spin as a difficult layback spin variation.

To piggyback on this, a biellmann position on the forward outside spiral is ugly. Many women who do it tend to have trouble maintaining a clean position. Look at your world gold and silver medalists this year!:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YyyFm3l1SzI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ctK9USCWMuo

 

[MarieM]

I'd love to see less elements in singles and pairs in the free program.
Take one trilpe jump pass out, limit to two combinaisons or sequences and that's it.
Maybe this way we'll see some artistic interesting programs.
As for pairs, only one jump seq in solo would be nice or remove anything else.

I head that they'll reduce some things in the Free Dance too, but I can't remember if it's a twizzle section or a lift. Anyway, the spins have to go, they are just not ice dance at all.

I want to see the artistic part of figure skating again !

 

[Buttercup]

Watching some of the skaters this season, I think something needs to be done about the levels in the step sequences. The emphasis on upper body movement has led to way too many routines in which the skaters look like they're being attacked by a swarm of bees or like they're about to trip over their own feet. It's ugly, and to me it detracts from the footwork being done. Someone must do something to make it stop.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Get rid of the skate held spirals - so ugly!

All that is needed in Spirals is a good old fashion one that can change edges.

Joe

 

[Jaana]

I wish that the PCS would be given more according to the skate in the event in question:

- a skater might have one or two falls, but still she/he should be given good PCS scores if they are deserved

- a skater with reputation should not be held up by PCS scores, if they are not deserved (so many times a skater gets good scores e.g. for transitions in cases where there practically are none, LOL).