Poll: Best all-around female skater?

[skateluvr]

This is your opinion and tell us why- please back up your choices even if it's a three way tie.

I don't care about hardware or years in the sport. I care about where the person is today.

Given her ability to skate beautifully while doing the tough combinations. Her musicality and sheer ability to please the audience as she does this I think not surprising given my avatar Ashley is the best in the world.

I have several others and we can nominate maybe ten skaters and see the informal vote.

Yes Evgenia is amazing and I bet on her this early for Korea because of her wow factors- easy triple jump sequences, tremendous confidence, her skinny frame a plus for jumpers and her backing by her coach and the team assembled and the power of Russian Fed. The fact that she can tano everything is amazing.

Will she be a one year star? Yes but Liza and Julia and Adelina are still around and will likely rise again so I best on Evgenia because she is a CoP skaters and the points matter more than choreography- she could win Olympiics but to me she's nowhere near the total package.

Right now I think the best skater is Ashley and sadly at25 she has nerves issues still. When she's free she is fast rotates well and everything is amazing fun and her programs fly by.

I imagine she's amazing every day in practice.

I also think Mao Asada should still be in contention for best in the world. When on she is just incredible. I also think Anna P though I think she is a poor sport can be great given better choreography. But Ashley and Mao and Gracie have the advantage of being trained by older coaches who really liked 6.0 better and their earlier years were formed under 6.0

On the list might also be other Japanese ladies you like.

Who should be in the top ten of you all around best lady skaters?

I don't need an ISU ranking, or who you feel best utilizes CoP

Who really makes you feel you are still watching classical skating and you love how they skate?

 

[andromache]

I would 100% say Evgenia IF she had another year at the senior level behind her. She was definitely the best all-around last year, but right now? Who knows? If best all-around means someone in the past few years, then that rules Evgenia out due to her youth. Anyway, I tend to enjoy musicality and expression much as you do, and while Ashley is probably the best at these things, I think you underrate Evgenia. I found her LP to be brilliant this year in terms of expression and interpretation, although it wasn't as extroverted as Ashley's Moulin Rouge.

Best all-around female now? I would tie Evgenia, Liza, Ashley, Gracie, Satoko, Mao, with Anna and Elena just slightly below. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, their on-competitions and their off-competitions. Maybe next season will be more decisive in determining a frontrunner, or maybe it'll be dominated by a newcomer or a "forgotten" veteran like Adelina or Yulia.

(And before anyone tries to argue, I give Ashley and Gracie points for being top 4-5 skaters for years and year, plus their GP records. Mao gets points for longevity, Satoko for general consistency, Evgenia and Liza for each being able to dominate for a year. Anna and Elena I have slightly below the other ladies in my reasoning because of a lack of consistency in finishes. Anna does very well when clean, which isn't often. Elena is often clean, but doesn't score well when most of her competition is also clean, like at Worlds this year.)

This might be a really long way of saying that there simply is no best in the world at this time. Which makes the ladies super interesting, IMO.

 

[Spiral]

This is your opinion and tell us why- please back up your choices even if it's a three way tie.

I don't care about hardware or years in the sport. I care about where the person is today.

Who really makes you feel you are still watching classical skating and you love how they skate?

If we're talking about today (well, last season, to be precise), then IMO, based on technical elements, artistry/ interpretation of music and consistency:

1. Medvedeva. First in tecnnique and consistency, and as good as they come in expression. I've found both her programs this season original and completely spellbinding, and what's more, comparing her skating last season with the two previous years, she seems to grow by leaps and bounds in the artistic department, so while her delivery this year has already been terrific, I'm curious to see what she'll do next year.

2. Miyahara. Her Listz program this year was a masterpiece. She was 2nd at GPF and should have been 2nd at Worlds IMO.

3. Radionova. I think she is a bit behind Medvedeva and Miyahara in expression, but what she lacks a little in maturity, she makes up for in expressing her emotions and communicating them to the audience. I don't listen to Lara Fabian in my free time and I never cared to watch Titanic, despite my admiration for Winslet's and DiCaprio's artistic talents, but when I watched Elena skate I invariably found myself deeply moved by her performance.

That's today. I love Lipnitskaya and Asada, and if Yulia regains all her jumb combos and LP stamina, and Mao becomes more consistent, they can challenge anybody too. I also like Pogorilaya and Gold very much, although I feel they don't have quite the expression of the other ladies on my list; plus there's also the matter of consistency. I think that, with more experience, Anna may well develop yet further artistically and reach the very top of fs performance stardom. With Gracie, I think it's probably a matter of music choices. I remember that when I watched Tara Lipiniski during her competitive years, I thought that her artistry wasn't quite on a par with her technical finesse, but very soon after she had retired I watched her portray a sad clown at the Stars on Ice tour, and it was a completely different story. Maybe it was the fact that got to play off Kurt Browning in that piece, but her transformation was astounding. Maybe Gracie should go to a new choreographer (and without her coach). And, of course, there's no telling how any of the other ladies, both senior and junior, will develop in the upcoming seasons.

But, yes, all the skaters I've mentioned make me feel like I'm watching classical figure skating, and I love how they skate.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Mao Asada is the best right now. Nobody has developed their all-around capabilities like she has. Too bad she frequently is saddled with lackluster programs, gets unfairly scored because of tech call issues, and has thrown points away for years by not making the 3Flip+3Toe her jump combo for the SP.

 

[Skater Boy]

Unless someone changes the title to this thread I find it very confusing. Because it reads as though we are talking about all time and this is further backed up by the comment of skateluvr who made this thread that it doesn't matter where the skater is today. So on those grounds I am going to nominate

1. Yuna Kim - she had everything and consistency but the loop,
1. Michelle Kwan - she had all the jumps, was very consistent, musical, solid everywhere

Kwan and Kim are all around excellence

Yamaguchi was good but really did not have the spark of the above two. It is hard to know what we are using to decide who is best all around because when some skaters are on they in my opinion are tops all around - Jill trenary, Rosalyn Sumners, Sarah Hughes, Liz Manley, Josee Chouinard, Joannie Rochette, Sotnikova, Lipinskaya, Liza T, Medeveda, Anna P, Carolina kostner, Mao Asada, Irina Slutskaya, Miki Ando, Shizuka Arakawa, Maria B, Sasha Cohen, Nancy Kerrigan, all these girls had wonderful jumps, spins, skating skills. I on purposely left off Tara Lipinski and Miyahara because I find their jumps too small.

 

[Shayuki]

In my opinion, the best all-around female is Evgenia Medvedeva.

Apart from her, Anastasia Gubanova if she manages to fix some things during her junior seasons. She has some very very special tools that I see extremely rarely.

 

[Crossover]

The title is misleading since the poster who's started the topic seems to want to talks about only "the current field".

informal poll- best all around female in the current field? would be more appropriate in my opinion.

In regards to that - Gracie Gold, Anna Pogorilaya and Carolina if she indeed returns although all of them have a big issue with consistency. I would not consider skaters with flawed jumps (URs, severe pre-rotations and awkward/ugly transitions), mediocre SS, so-so presentation as all-around skaters as opposed to their undeserving scores pushed by their strong federations. However, if skaters excel in one area, I could still enjoy their skating with excitements such as Liza's 3A and solid jumps, Miyahara's nice musicality or Kanako's electrifying stsq.

 

[Blades of Passion]

1. Yuna Kim - she had everything and consistency but the loop

She never got her flexibility and free-foot position on some of the moves to the same quality as others.

 

[gourry]

She never got her flexibility and free-foot position on some of the moves to the same quality as others.

And you're not gonna mention Michelle's lack of flexibility? C'mon.

I don't deny Yuna was not the most flexible skater or her foot position could be better but imo her shortcoming is minor. Some of the skaters mentioned above don't have Yuna level arm and neck movements, back flexibility(what she lacked was hip flexibility), musicality, versatility(not many can cover from Lark Ascending to Danse Macabre to Scheherazade to 007 for example.), technical prowess, jump size, correct edge take off, control, consistency, or competitive nerve. Everybody lacks something. If that lacking is minor, I don't have a problem to call them all around skater. And Yuna is definitely an all around skater.

 

[solani]

Who should be in the top ten of you all around best lady skaters?

When you just look at the current field - Asada, Medvedeva, Gold, Wagner and Pogorilaya.
And I'd also add Kostner and Lipnitskaya, because we know what they're capable of and they could be in the mix next season.
So that's 7 skaters, I need another 3.
Osmond, Miyahara and Radionova.

Rough ranking:
1. Asada, Kostner
3. Medvedeva, Gold, Wagner, Osmond, Pogorilaya, Lipnitskaya
9. Miyahara, Radionova

EDIT: Tuktamysheva and Sotnikova are missing from my list. Why? Sotnikova hasn't got a GP assignment, but Tuktamysheva has 2. So Tuktamysheva has to be in my top ten.

Updated rough ranking:
1. Asada, Kostner
3. Medvedeva, Gold, Wagner, Osmond, Pogorilaya, Lipnitskaya, Tuktamysheva
10. Miyahara

 

[Blades of Passion]

And you're not gonna mention Michelle's lack of flexibility? C'mon

Michelle had much more flexibility in her Spiral. It's true that Yu-Na had more flexibility of the back in some moves, but that only specifically matters for the Layback and in Yu-na's case it's a bit unfortunate that she didn't work more on the free foot there, since her positions were otherwise strong. The spiral sequence between the two of them is a pretty glaring difference and that element was considered to be more important than the Layback spin. It was the most important element of anything outside of jumps in Ladies skating, for quite some time, including the majority of Yu-Na's competitive career.

It's too bad that the level calls were stupid for so long because Mao Asada had a much better spiral sequence than Yu-Na, but often didn't receive the credit she deserved for it. I think that made Yu-Na care less about trying to improve her stretch, although it did get better.

 

[gourry]

The spiral sequence between the two of them is a pretty glaring difference and that element was considered to be more important than the Layback spin. It was the most important element of anything outside of jumps in Ladies skating, for quite some time, including the majority of Yu-Na's competitive career.

It's too bad that the level calls were stupid for so long because Mao Asada had a much better spiral sequence than Yu-Na, but often didn't receive the credit she deserved for it. I think that made Yu-Na care less about trying to improve her stretch, although it did get better.

Really? I don't think so. When they decided to remove spirals and keep layback spins in SP, obviously they didn't think so either.
As for Mao's spirals, yes she had pretty poses but I want to point out she had weaker edges, speed and ice coverage than Yuna. Don't tell me speed and ice coverage is not important in spirals. You yourself complained when Mao changed her Liebestraum program and put spiral at the end of program. I specifically remember you used 'slow, covers not much ice' sort of wording in more harsh way. (I remember this because I thought that was harsh at that time.)
I think there is some trade off between pose and speed in spirals, so I don't think Mao had much better spirals than Yuna. They just chose to focus on different aspects of spirals according to their strength. Or are you going to say Sasha had much better spirals than Michelle because she had better flexibility, stretch and pose? Because I don't think so. They just had different strength. Same for Mao and Yuna.
But if you prefer hers to Yuna's, I don't have a problem either. Each to their own.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Anna does very well when clean, which isn't often.

It's more that she either nails everything or pretty much nothing. It's worlds or NHK and not often something in between. But nevertheless, Anna had 3 clean competitions this year - one of them was "only" a senior B, but the other 2 the most important competitions she had, Nats and Worlds. She was also clean at her first worlds in 2014 and made the worlds team 3 years in a row... she's by no means consistent, but by now I'd count more on Anna to deliver at an important event than basically everyone not Satoko, Evgenia or Elena.

Rough ranking:
1. Asada, Kostner
3. Medvedeva, Gold, Wagner, Osmond, Pogorilaya, Lipnitskaya
9. Miyahara, Radionova

That's a great ranking IMO, I'm not sure if Julia will really return strong enough, but I hope she does.
Also, great to see Kaetlyn! This girl had so much trouble with injuries, but she has so much potential... she's got everything when she lands her jumps and I'd take her over every other north american lady then. Fingers crossed next season will be great for her.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Really? I don't think so.

Maximum value of spiral sequences were 6.4 points. Maximum value of Laybacks were 3.9 or 4.2 points, depending on the year. Given that no lady was really doing Level 4 footwork, this means that the spiral sequence was factually the most important non-jump element in Ladies skating up through 2010. In 6.0 skating we don't have an exact value, but with the American Ladies pushing this element, it was generally the single most talked-about element outside of the jumps.

When they decided to remove spirals and keep layback spins in SP, obviously they didn't think so either.

Well, first of all, the rule changes with the scoring system unfortunately made Spiral Sequences too rigid and too boring most of the time. Almost all of the ladies ended up doing pretty much the exact same spiral sequence, the majority of them not doing it with special quality, so it became something of a predictable dead spot in programs. When the ISU decided to remove an element from the SP, it was pretty obvious which one should be chucked. This was a BIG MISTAKE for the sport, the way they changed the Short Program and forced a single Step Sequence to be this gigantic blob of turns, but given the ineptitude of the ISU, it was at least the most logical decision of the various bad options that they decided to pick from.

I think there is some trade off between pose and speed in spirals, so I don't think Mao had much better spirals than Yuna.

Mao had good speed and edging in her spirals. It's true that Yu-Na often did better than Mao in that regard, but when you are a doing a spiral in FULL SPLIT position and various other difficult positions, it is inherently impossible to have as deep of an edge. There is NO way that Yu-Na would ever be able to have her normal speed and edging on a spiral if she tried to do a position like that. The position is a difficult thing to attain, it's a specific skill unto itself, not just a "pose" as you try to call it. Mao's spirals were better. She did something that Yu-Na could not. If Mao wanted to make her body positions far more easy, then she could have done a spiral with more ice coverage.

Or are you going to say Sasha had much better spirals than Michelle because she had better flexibility, stretch and pose? Because I don't think so.

Kwan had the best edge control of all time in her Spiral, along with good speed AND position. Her spiral vs Cohen's is a far different comparison than Yu-Na Kim vs Mao Asada.

Mao Asada 2008 World SP

Yu-Na Kim 2008 World SP

There is a big difference in quality here. Yes, Yu-Na is a little better in terms of ice coverage, but her positions are all weaker and look at the way her free leg bobbles down when she goes to do the change of edge on the spiral.

You yourself complained when Mao changed her Liebestraum program and put spiral at the end of program. I specifically remember you used 'slow, covers not much ice' sort of wording in more harsh way. (I remember this because I thought that was harsh at that time.)

The way Mao changed her spiral in that program was day-and-night. The new spiral she did was literally crawling on the ice. Look:

Spiral #1, far better version

Spiral #2, inferior version

I can see possible interpretive value in choosing to do a spiral like #2, but technically it is definitely weaker (and I found to be a worst choice artistically in this program at the same time).

 

[Meoima]

Yuna's spiral made me sad... such a beautiful lady and such a.... leg position.

 

[ioanna]

Updated rough ranking:
1. Asada, Kostner
3. Medvedeva, Gold, Wagner, Osmond, Pogorilaya, Lipnitskaya, Tuktamysheva
10. Miyahara

That's a bit harsh for Miyahara. I get that her jumps tend to cancel the rest of her qualities for some people but 10th behind Gold (who barely connects to her programs, especially when she has meltdowns - which is often), Pogorilaya (I wouldn't call a skater like her a good all-arounder when her clean competitions can be counted on one hand), or Tuktamysheva (great jumps and that's it; mediocre skating skills, transitions, spins, limited expression).

They all have their shortcomings but if I were to rank skaters based on who has the least shortcomings (which, imo, means who has the most all-around qualities), I wouldn't place Miyahara last.

 

[solani]

That's a bit harsh for Miyahara. I get that her jumps tend to cancel the rest of her qualities for some people but 10th behind Gold (who barely connects to her programs, especially when she has meltdowns - which is often), Pogorilaya (I wouldn't call a skater like her a good all-arounder when her clean competitions can be counted on one hand), or Tuktamysheva (great jumps and that's it; mediocre skating skills, transitions, spins, limited expression).

They all have their shortcomings but if I were to rank skaters based on who has the least shortcomings (which, imo, means who has the most all-around qualities), I wouldn't place Miyahara last.

I see your point and placing Miyahara in my list was tough for me. And I did include her in my top ten. I tried to blind out the consistency of the skaters, otherwise I wouldn't have had Osmond or Gold in my list (though I'd have kept Pogorilaya because she's able to deliver when it really counts). I tried to look at what those skaters are able to deliver at their best. I like all aspects of figure skating but jumps are just a bit more important to me than all the other little things. But Miyahara is very likely going to beat at least 5 skaters on my list at the next WC. If I would have to place a bet on the top five at Worlds next season I'd include her. To me Miyahara just isn't one of the best all-around skaters because of the flaws in her jumping technique. But she's still one of the youngest on my list and I hope that she'll be able to improve her toe jumps. I really like her as a skater.

 

[koatcue]

That's a bit harsh for Miyahara. I get that her jumps tend to cancel the rest of her qualities for some people but 10th behind Gold (who barely connects to her programs, especially when she has meltdowns - which is often), Pogorilaya (I wouldn't call a skater like her a good all-arounder when her clean competitions can be counted on one hand), or Tuktamysheva (great jumps and that's it; mediocre skating skills, transitions, spins, limited expression).

They all have their shortcomings but if I were to rank skaters based on who has the least shortcomings (which, imo, means who has the most all-around qualities), I wouldn't place Miyahara last.

I wouldn't call Liza mediocre in SS, weakish spins - yes, kinda limited expression - yes *but the same could be said about 70% of current top skaters if we look at their programs*. But Satoko IS one of the top skaters nowadays, clearly a skater to be reckoned with.

 

[koatcue]

1) Caro
2) Mao
3) Zhenia *just due to age and experience
4) Yulia
5) Satoko
6) Liza
7) Ashley
8) Anna
9) Gold
10) Lena

Honorable mentions:
1) Adelina - could be the best here and #1 in the list if she competed more than once a year and had consistent jumps.
2) Osmond - not competing due to injuries, but easily could get a spot on the list
3) up-and-coming Japanese and Russian juniors

 

[Arriba627]

Midori Ito. Those jumps!