Random Figure Skating Questions

[mrrice]

Some years Uzbekistan has a Nationals, and last year it reported having them:
http://static.isu.org/media/210944/1953-best-national-results-2014-15.pdf

There is a wiki about it:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbekistani_Figure_Skating_Championships

However, I don't have other details.

Thank you for the reply. Thank god for this site as it would be nearly impossible to hunt this stuff down on my own.

 

[mrrice]

Seriously??? No one knows why it's called a flip jump?

I asked a similar question a while ago. I wanted to know if you could Mohawk a Toe Loop? I guess you can't but I don't remember why. I believe it was Alissa C. who switched to a Mohawk from a regular flip take off that had me baffled.

 

[Seruleane]

The 'Razzano' is just a 3T+3T combo.

Douglas Razzano had a reputation to always have it in both programs and nail it.

Thanks! Mystery solved.

 

[karne]

I asked a similar question a while ago. I wanted to know if you could Mohawk a Toe Loop? I guess you can't but I don't remember why. I believe it was Alissa C. who switched to a Mohawk from a regular flip take off that had me baffled.

Toe loop takes off from a RBO if you are a counter clockwise skater, so you can't do an inside mohawk. You could probably do an outside one but really, it's probably not worth it in terms of points.

Mohawk for a flip takeoff is actually not rare and quite common.

 

[mrrice]

Toe loop takes off from a RBO if you are a counter clockwise skater, so you can't do an inside mohawk. You could probably do an outside one but really, it's probably not worth it in terms of points.

Mohawk for a flip takeoff is actually not rare and quite common.

I'm trying to think of the first time I ever saw someone do a "Mohawk" I think it was Elena Liashenko and I thought it was a mistake. I remember asking about it. I'll have to check.

Here she is. I did see her do this program live in 1999 and I thought she had the strangest jump setups I had ever seen. I will say this for her. She was very fast around the ice which was nice. However, she lost all her speed when she jumped. Very strange.


Elena Liashenko 1999 SP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E_-sG_-tbk

 

[randomfan]

I've been watching some Japan Open videos lately, and I came across this beautiful performance of Joannie Rochette in the 2009 event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzxIv0iQhWA
At about 2:44, she does a combo which looks like a 3T-1Lo-3S. I watched other videos and saw that she did this for the whole season, and in the protocols, it is listed as a 3T+3S+SEQ. So I have two questions...
1. Would the combo she did in the 2009-2010 season be considered a 3-1Lo-3 sequence today? Would all skaters be allowed to do this kind of sequence under the current system?
2. In the 2010 Japan Open, she does the 1Lo-3S sequence like the current skaters do it. And she did the same in the 2013 Japan Open as well, which seems to mean that she can no longer do the sequence like she did previously. So if the answer to question #1 is no, were there any other skaters who did the same sequence during the 2009-2010 season and had to change it in the 2010-2011 season just like Joannie did?

 

[Shayuki]

That's really not like a 1 Loop... She does it like how skaters normally would do 2A as the second jump in a combo. And well, I don't know the answers to either question. But Tuktamysheva does 3S+2A+SEQ currently, and it does get lower base value than just a straight combo would. Seems like 2A's base value is approximately halved.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I completely understand what a flip is and the whole inside edge. I want to know why it's called a flip. Salcows and Axels being named after the inventors....why is a flip a flip?

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Wikipedia says:

The origins of the flip jump are obscure. Starting in 1913, the jump was known for many years as a Mapes (now applied to the toe loop in the jargon of artistic roller skating), but it is not known for certain if Bruce Mapes was the inventor. It was certainly being commonly performed by the 1930s.

So since the origins are obscure, maybe the name origin is also lost. Maybe it is as simple as 'flipping' from one foot to the other in the jump? Especially since the edges are opposite too?

 

[gkelly]

I've been watching some Japan Open videos lately, and I came across this beautiful performance of Joannie Rochette in the 2009 event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzxIv0iQhWA
At about 2:44, she does a combo which looks like a 3T-1Lo-3S. I watched other videos and saw that she did this for the whole season, and in the protocols, it is listed as a 3T+3S+SEQ. So I have two questions...

What she's doing there is not a half-loop (as Shayauki says). More like a little falling leaf followed by a right forward inside mohawk, which may be a bit hopped (hard to tell on the video).

1. Would the combo she did in the 2009-2010 season be considered a 3-1Lo-3 sequence today?

No, for the reason above -- it's not a 1Lo (with opposite-foot landing back outside back inside, i.e., half-loop) to between the triples.

Would all skaters be allowed to do this kind of sequence under the current system?

I think so, especially if that was an actual hop and not just a mohawk to get from RFI to LBI.

2. In the 2010 Japan Open, she does the 1Lo-3S sequence like the current skaters do it. And she did the same in the 2013 Japan Open as well, which seems to mean that she can no longer do the sequence like she did previously.

The rules for jump sequences have changed over the years.
What has been true of jump sequences since the beginning of IJS is that they can include "any number of jumps of any number of revolutions that may be linked by non-listed jumps and/or hops immediately following each other while maintaining the jump rhythm" and that the score is 80% of the two highest-value listed jumps in the sequence (if there are more than two).

What has changed somewhat is the definition of a sequence. At the very beginning it was allowed to do a step or turn between jumps and hops, but only one between each jump. That was later changed so that the skater must leave the ice with every turn and there can't be any strokes or edge changes between jumps, or else the sequence will either be called as the first jump only with the second one ignored, or if there are enough steps and loss of rhythm but it doesn't look like a mistake it could be called as two separate jump passes, which means the last jump pass of the program will not count at all.
(Also later an exception was explicitly added to allow a step from back outside landing edge to forward outside axel takeoff without a hop. And I think it is still allowed to change feet e.g. from a half loop back inside landing to a back outside toe loop takeoff and call it a sequence.)

So as of 2010, 3T-falling leaf-hopped mohawk-3S and 3T-half loop-3S both counted as 3T+3S+SEQ with a base value of 80% of the 3T plus 3S base values. So a skater could do whichever of those sequences was easier for her.

Then the rules for half-loop sequences changed. If the skater takes off directly from the half-loop landing into a salchow or flip, the element is considered a three-jump combo with the half-loop called as 1Lo, and full base value for all three jumps

It's still allowed to do either the 3T-falling leaf-hopped mohawk-3S (3T+3S+SEQ) or and 3T-half loop-3S (3T+1Lo+3S). However, the latter now earns significantly more points, so there's an obvious advantage to choosing the latter.

The only exceptions would be 1) if the skater has a much better success rate/higher quality with a sequence including half-revolution hops than with a half-loop combo or 2) the skater has a different three-jump combination s/he can do reliably with a higher base value than the triple-half loop-triple and wants to save the one allowed three-jump combo slot for the harder one.

So if the answer to question #1 is no, were there any other skaters who did the same sequence during the 2009-2010 season and had to change it in the 2010-2011 season just like Joannie did?

Offhand I can't think of anyone who did that specific sequence. But if they did, or something like it, the current rules would encourage them to do a true combination with half loop in the middle.

 

[mrrice]

Wikipedia says:

So since the origins are obscure, maybe the name origin is also lost. Maybe it is as simple as 'flipping' from one foot to the other in the jump? Especially since the edges are opposite too?

I think this is correct or at least very close to it.

 

[mrrice]

Canadians..........Do guys like "Hotline Bling" by Drake? I would LOVE to see Patrick Chan do and exhibition to it. It's making a big splash here in the states.


Watch these actors read his lyrics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oRxX6-CaOA

 

[caitie]

Does anyone know how many cameras the technical panel has access to?

I was watching TSL, and they mentioned that the technical panel has some blind spots because of their camera placement, and that some coaches place skaters poor jumps and elements in those blind spots. They were saying the ISU should fill those blind spots with additional cameras. Now I can understand having a blind spot or two, but as they prepared to move on there was some crosstalk and Jenny said the ISU could afford to have more than one camera. One camera?? Did Jenny misspeak as she prepared to move on to the next topic or is there really only one camera available to the technical panel to make technical calls?

 

[karne]

I'm trying to think of the first time I ever saw someone do a "Mohawk" I think it was Elena Liashenko and I thought it was a mistake. I remember asking about it. I'll have to check.

Unexpected example crops up: Max at a show a couple of days ago doing the triple flip from a mohawk takeoff.

Of course, not the world's greatest example, because his flip is ! on a good day and e if he's having a bad one.

Pretty sure Jason does the flip from a mohawk takeoff as well.

Does anyone know how many cameras the technical panel has access to?

I was watching TSL, and they mentioned that the technical panel has some blind spots because of their camera placement, and that some coaches place skaters poor jumps and elements in those blind spots. They were saying the ISU should fill those blind spots with additional cameras. Now I can understand having a blind spot or two, but as they prepared to move on there was some crosstalk and Jenny said the ISU could afford to have more than one camera. One camera?? Did Jenny misspeak as she prepared to move on to the next topic or is there really only one camera available to the technical panel to make technical calls?

They have one.

If the camera is placed properly, the blind spots are kept to a minimum, and will not be the same at every rink, so frankly, that's a bit of a red herring from TSL. Plus, the camera feeds directly into the Replay Operator's computer so they can mark up the element; I can only imagine how much more difficult that would be for the Replay Operator to be trying to make sure all the angles are marked up correctly. Not to mention the complaints of the fans when it takes the technical panel four or five times longer to do their reviews because they have to check all the angles in slo-mo...

 

[mrrice]

Unexpected example crops up: Max at a show a couple of days ago doing the triple flip from a mohawk takeoff.

Of course, not the world's greatest example, because his flip is ! on a good day and e if he's having a bad one.

Pretty sure Jason does the flip from a mohawk takeoff as well.



They have one.

If the camera is placed properly, the blind spots are kept to a minimum, and will not be the same at every rink, so frankly, that's a bit of a red herring from TSL. Plus, the camera feeds directly into the Replay Operator's computer so they can mark up the element; I can only imagine how much more difficult that would be for the Replay Operator to be trying to make sure all the angles are marked up correctly. Not to mention the complaints of the fans when it takes the technical panel four or five times longer to do their reviews because they have to check all the angles in slo-mo...

Karne!!!! That is a Perfect Example!!!! Max looks good!!

 

[LiamForeman]

Okay I'm going to be stupid, because I never got it or saw it. WHAT is a Choctaw? I started skating my last year of grad school and never learned these names. Same thing with a Mohawk. I'm seeing these videos and I guess I'm blind. My favorite jump was the flip, and I'm trying to figure out what I did naturally... A Mohawk is just a forward inside right to back left inside? I usually did left 3turns into my flip. I was also told I had a nice Mazurka, and it just looks like a hop to me. Did people spend years learning these moves? Obviously an adult skater not up on the words.

Plus.. An Arabian is what Elvis would do five times in a row with poor extension? And a Butterfly is an Arabian into a back sit? Thanks.

 

[gkelly]

Basically, a mohawk is a 180-degree turn that changes feet and changes forward vs. backward but keeps the same kind of edge (inside or outside). It stays on the same curve.

A choctaw is a 180-degree turn that changes feet, changes forward vs. backward, and changes inside vs. outside all at the same time. It changes curve from clockwise to counterclockwise or vice versa.

For details and video links see this post in the reference forum. I see that some of those links are dead, so I'll try to find other examples when I get a chance.

 

[mrrice]

Do you guys know if Haven and Brendan are going to be skating at Nationals?

 

[Shayuki]

Would this be the highest scoring element ever in ladies' figure skating had it been during a competition valid for SBs and PBs?

 

[dorispulaski]

Do you guys know if Haven and Brendan are going to be skating at Nationals?

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?57804-2016-US-Nationals-Senior-Pairs

USFSA's entry list shows them as having a Bye, so they have not withdrawn so far.