Random Figure Skating Questions

[Mathman]

1. How do you properly pronounce Tuktamysheva?

English speakers say something like Took-ta-MEE-sha-va. Speakers of Russian do not put so much emphasis on the MEE, but stress the syllables more evenly.

 

[Mathman]

I just finished reading thread dedicated to ladies FS at Skate America and felt frustrated by the names people given to the Russian skaters. Radionova transformed into Radio, while Tuktamysheva was called Tuk, Tut and also Eliza (the latter is like calling Benedict a Benjamin), etc.

I haven't seen anyone's names being butchered that way, Russian single ladies only. I thought it was because names are often long, but somehow Russian men's names are not mangled the same way. Pairs and dance are okay too. There was also one poster who invented 'Stepukin' which is also a kind of not cool, but that's just one example that I noticed.

So, why do you guys think this is happening?

I agree that this is not cool. My pet peeve is when this happens in mathematics. Actual mathematicians never say "math" or maths" when they mean "mathematics." Or "stat" when they mean "statistics." Or ""trig,." etc. It's disrespectful to the subject.

AND ANOTHER THING... I wish ice dance fans would stop using initials, like A&B, for the teams. I can never figure out who they are talking about.

 

[inskate]

I just finished reading thread dedicated to ladies FS at Skate America and felt frustrated by the names people given to the Russian skaters. Radionova transformed into Radio, while Tuktamysheva was called Tuk, Tut and also Eliza (the latter is like calling Benedict a Benjamin), etc.

I haven't seen anyone's names being butchered that way, Russian single ladies only. I thought it was because names are often long, but somehow Russian men's names are not mangled the same way. Pairs and dance are okay too.

Plushy, Yags, Gede, Caro-Z, Caro-K, Shizza, the Kween, Dai/Daisha, Taka, Nobu/Tono, Kana, Javi, Voir, Merylie, the Shibs/ShibShibs, etc., etc..

There was also one poster who invented 'Stepukin' which is also a kind of not cool, but that's just one example that I noticed.

Portmanteau couple names are used very often in popular culture. Arguably the most famous one (Brangelina) has already been mentioned, but I see those all the time when people refer to real or fictional couples (romantic / platonic / sport partners...). It's definitely not the only example - fans often refer to Virtue/Moir as Voir and Davis/White as Merylie, for example.

So, why do you guys think this is happening?

The most likely answer is: because it's shorter. Sometimes the nicknames are affectionate, sometimes they have some backstories, sometimes it's simply because the original names are a mouthful and easy to misspell while in a rush. You mentioned the ladies FS thread - most of the comments there were made live during the events, and the posters were typing while watching the performances. I don't think it's surprising that often the names get condensed to their shortest recognizable form.

 

[Mathman]

I would not blame USFS one bit for taking action in the following scenario:

What if someone who surreptitiously recorded HD video of an entire event then tried to SELL bootleg DVDs?​

That would not happen because there is no market. IMHO the number one priority of the USFSA should be to create and sustain a market for their product.

Doesn't USFS make some profit from IN subscriptions? The prevalence of YT videos decreases the number of subscriptions that IN can sell.

I believe the opposite to be more likely. The more exposure figure skating gets the more people will want to sign up for Icenetwork, go to live events, etc.

A while back someone muted the music to the You Tubes of Michelle Kwan's 1998 U.S. Nationals Lyra Angelic over copyright issues. (I see that they are back now. ) Was it the estate of composer William Alwyn? Did Chandos Recordings think that if people watched Michelle skating without the music they would rush out and buy the CD or download the mp3 to play along with the video? Did ABC TV think that they would lose money if they let people hear Dick Button's 16-year old commentary for free?

Or did they just take away an opportunity for us to tell our friends, "Check this out, y'all!"

People who post their favorite performances to You Tube are the friends of figure skating, not the enemies. No one questions the right of USFS and its partners jealously to guard their stuff -- only the wisdom. More skating, more skating, more skating, that's the ticket. :yes:​

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Rather than being stupid questions I think my knowledge is just bad.

1. How do you properly pronounce Tuktamysheva?

Halelulah! I thought I was stupid not being sure how to pronounce Liza's surname! Especially since I am such a big fan of her's!

Over the years, there are 2 versions I have tried:

Took-ta-MEE-shev-a?
Took-ta-Mish-e-va?

I always tended to use the first. Then I went through a short spell with the second. Then I went back to the first.

Then, a few months ago, I spotted the "listen" button on Google Translate. So I set the first box to Russian, typed in her name, and pressed the button. And it said the second.

English speakers say something like Took-ta-MEE-sha-va. Speakers of Russian do not put so much emphasis on the MEE, but stress the syllables more evenly.

And that is the pronounciation Google gives you if you keep the language set to English!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

NBC spelled it Yelizaveta. Is this correct? I converted from Julia to Yulia but I'm not sure I can do it again...besides I just type Liza most of the time.

 

[Mathman]

NBC spelled it Yelizaveta. Is this correct? I converted from Julia to Yulia but I'm not sure I can do it again...besides I just type Liza most of the time.

My grandfather ran the general store in a little farming community in North Dakota many decades ago. There were a lot of immigrants from Russia, Poland, and Ukraine whose first stop in America was to sign up at the store for a line of credit. Granddad would try to spell their names phonetically as best he could. And that became the official spelling of those families' name to this day.

It does seem strange, though, that in this day and age linguists have not gotten together and agreed on an official version of spelling conventions in translation.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

valemarchei14

Centro Sportivo Aeronautica Militare, Vigna di Valle
Aviere Scelto Valentina Marchei #giuramento #orgoglio #aeronauticamilitare #italianairforce #proudgirl
http://instagram.com/p/unwPFfw0-Q/ (Oct 26)​

CL_fan, thought of you when I saw this photo. :yes:

Absolutely love it!!!

I probably shouldn't admit this, because you are all going to think I am mad in the head! But, if anybody is watching the current series of the X Factor, you know the Italian guy, Andrea Faustini. Well, every time I see him, I think of Valentina.

I know it's hard to tell because of his beard, but it looks like he has the same shape of a face as Vale.

But, the main thing is his mannerisms. They are EXACTLY the same as Valentina's!

Incidentally, in case you were wondering, they are from different parts of Italy. Andrea is from Rome, in the centre of Italy; while Valentina is from Milan, in the north of Italy. So, the similar mannerisms are probably not down to a similar cultural background.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[bartlebooth]

NBC spelled it Yelizaveta. Is this correct? I converted from Julia to Yulia but I'm not sure I can do it again...besides I just type Liza most of the time.

Yes, it is. In Russian, Elizaveta is pronounced something like Ye-lee-za-vye-ta, and Elena something like Yelena. the y are not particularly stressed. When names are transliterated, obviously there are variations: Плю́щенко​ is usually transliterated as Plushenko, but sometimes as Plyushchenko.

 

[ice coverage]

Halelulah! I thought I was stupid not being sure how to pronounce Liza's surname! Especially since I am such a big fan of her's!

Over the years, there are 2 versions I have tried:

Took-ta-MEE-shev-a?
Took-ta-Mish-e-va?

I always tended to use the first. Then I went through a short spell with the second. Then I went back to the first.

Then, a few months ago, I spotted the "listen" button on Google Translate. So I set the first box to Russian, typed in her name, and pressed the button. And it said the second. ...

In Cyrillic, her name is Туктамышева.

The authentic "ы" sound does not exist in English, but to me, it is at least closer to "i." The correct pronunciation is definitely not (simply) "ee," which in Cyrillic is "и."

[An oversimplification -- which I do not like, but some speakers of Russian might find acceptable -- is that the correct pronunciation of "ы" is somewhere in between "i" and "ee."]

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

In Cyrillic, her name is Туктамышева.

The authentic "ы" sound does not exist in English, but to me, it is at least closer to "i." The correct pronunciation is definitely not (simply) "ee," which in Cyrillic is "и."

[An oversimplification -- which I do not like, but some speakers of Russian might find acceptable -- is that the correct pronunciation of "ы" is somewhere in between "i" and "ee."]

Thank you for the explanation, Golden!

Plushy, Yags, Gede, Caro-Z, Caro-K, Shizza, the Kween, Dai/Daisha, Taka, Nobu/Tono, Kana, Javi, Voir, Merylie, the Shibs/ShibShibs, etc., etc..

I haven't a clue who half of those are even supposed to be!

Yags?! (Is that supposed to be Yagudin?)

Caro-Z?! Shizza?! Tono?! Kana?!

Nope, no idea!


Mind you, I am guilty of using a couple of shortened names on here. As you know, there are a lot of Russian ladies with the same first names. So, they kinda lend themselves well to it.

I've lost count of the number of Polina's there are now! So, whenever I am talking about them, I have fallen in line with the trend of using their first name, and the initial of their surname. It would probably be easier to just call them by their surname, but I realise that this trend came about because it takes so long to type "Korobeynikova" (in the case of Polina K.)

Also, there are quite a few Ekaterina's about. And, although she doesn't creep up in the conversation much, I have got into the habit of shortening Ekatering Pushkash to "Kate Push". Purely because I like the way it sounds like the English singer, Kate Bush!

Portmanteau couple names are used very often in popular culture.

This is my pet hate! I cringe every time I hear them! And if I am talking to somebody who uses them, I always go to the effort of using the full names to make a point. (That is assuming I know who they are talking about! )

Like, even now that they have adopted "Jedward" as their official stage name, I still call the Grimes twins by their original stage name, "John and Edward". (No matter what they are called, I still think they can't sing!)

So, it so ironic that I have used one as my username on here! But, that is purely because I wanted to follow the pattern I used for the other fora I was a member of (Manami_fan on the Shanadoo forum, and Christina_fan on the LaFee forum). But I couldn't decide which name to use! So, I decided to use both, and "CaroLiza" was the best sounding combination I could come up with.

AND ANOTHER THING... I wish ice dance fans would stop using initials, like A&B, for the teams. I can never figure out who they are talking about.

YES!!!!

And it is even more confusing as so many couples have swapped partners this season!

Plus, I am a relative newcomer to watching Ice Dance (whereas I had been watching Singles and Pairs since 2003, I didn't really start watching Ice Dance until around 2009/10). So it is even more confusing to me when they are talking about couples that were skating before I started paying attention to Dance.

So, please use the full names to avoid confusion!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

My grandfather ran the general store in a little farming community in North Dakota many decades ago. There were a lot of immigrants from Russia, Poland, and Ukraine whose first stop in America was to sign up at the store for a line of credit. Granddad would try to spell their names phonetically as best he could. And that became the official spelling of those families' name to this day.

It does seem strange, though, that in this day and age linguists have not gotten together and agreed on an official version of spelling conventions in translation.

First of all thank you Bartletooth and Mathman for the responses.

Secondly...wow Mathman. What an incredible story. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm particularly fond of American culture during the 1800's and early 1900's and find myself marveling at how resourceful people were. To think of the impact one guy had on all of these families.

I think I'll watch some little house on the prarie today a la Hallmark Channel

 

[ice coverage]

... I think I'll watch some little house on the parties today a la Hallmark Channel

The Ingalls family's Little House is party central???

(I'm laughing with you. Not at you.)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The Ingalls family's Little House is party central???

(I'm laughing with you. Not at you.)

 

[dorispulaski]

I will try to spell out ice dance names more often :

 

[Pasdedeux]

It does seem strange, though, that in this day and age linguists have not gotten together and agreed on an official version of spelling conventions in translation.

It depends on what language one chooses to be the standard. Different sounds are spelled differently in different languages, even if the same alphabet is used. Russians have historically been francophiles, so French spelling is used officially when transliterating Cyrillic names into Latin (on passports, for example).

 

[Sandpiper]

I remember Michelle Kwan once did a back spiral straight out of a double axel. How I loved that move! My question is, has it ever been done by a pairs skater on a throw? (As in, the lady exits the throw straight into a back spiral)

 

[skatedreamer]

My grandfather ran the general store in a little farming community in North Dakota many decades ago. There were a lot of immigrants from Russia, Poland, and Ukraine whose first stop in America was to sign up at the store for a line of credit. Granddad would try to spell their names phonetically as best he could. And that became the official spelling of those families' name to this day.

It does seem strange, though, that in this day and age linguists have not gotten together and agreed on an official version of spelling conventions in translation.

Not just your Granddad. AFIK, this was also done in places like Ellis Island, although I can't think of any examples offhand. My maternal grandparents were Slovenian. Their name was relatively simple so it didn't happen to them but I remember Mom talking about friends of theirs whose names got switched that way.

Re: Took-ta-MEE-shev-a v. Took-ta-Mish-e-va, I actually thought that the accent was on the next-to-last syllable, e.g. Took-ta-mee-SHE-va. However, that plus $5.00 (maybe a bit more?) will get you a latte @ Starbucks...

 

[LiamForeman]

I remember Michelle Kwan once did a back spiral straight out of a double axel. How I loved that move! My question is, has it ever been done by a pairs skater on a throw? (As in, the lady exits the throw straight into a back spiral)

What programs are you thinking about? Her early years? I never considered that a back spiral, more just holding a landing edge for longer. IIRC she was mostly in landing form with a bent right leg. Sure pair skaters have done that. It helps 'sell' the jump and gives the appearance of control and confidence.

 

[dorispulaski]

It was also done on our northern border, not just at Ellis Island. For example, a Quebecois lady I know who lives in northern Vermont, has the last name of Centybear.

The Quebec version of this name is St. Ebert

My husband has Pawlowski on his birth certificate because the Polish priest filled out the hospital paperwork for his mom. His dad had been drafted due to WW2, so he was away in the Army. However, from immigration his grandad's last name was Pulaski, so his dad's last name on his birth certificate was Pulaski. Mr. Ski had always gone by Pulaski, but he has Pawlowski as an AKA on his passport.