Russian Dominance coming soon

[Frenchie]

Some of them will likely retire or switch to a different country

Does anyone know if anything has changed with regards to switching countries for Russian skaters in the last years?
It seems strange to me that more skaters aren't already committing to another country within former Soviet Union, since back then at least it didn't seem too difficult to obtain that new citizenship.

Julia Vorobieva, born and raised in Moscow, skated for Azerbaijan from 1993 to 2002, while still training and living in Moscow, without ever setting foot in Azerbaijan. At least, that's what the German Commentators said, I don't know if that's accurate.
Julia Soldatova was a promising junior (98'JWC, 2nd at 99'EC, 3rd at 99'WC) but she only decided to switch to Belarus in 2000, while still training and living in Moscow, once she was allowed to compete for Belarus, she was already past her prime. She sat out her prime.

Elena Sokolova was 7th at the 98'OG and 8th at the 98'WC, and then she had 5 years during which she didn't make it on the Russian Team despite being very constant at the same level. When she did finally make it, she was immediately at the international very top: 2nd at EC'03 and WC'03.
Julia Lebedeva, born and raised in Moscow, nowhere near Sokolova's level, made the call in 1999 to switch to Armenia, while still training and living in Moscow.
The difference between the 2: Lebedeva represented Armenia at the SLC OG (27th). Sokolova sat at home and saw her on tv... :no:

Of course I understand you want to represent your country. And to be a successful athlete, it helps to be convinced that "you're the best and you'll make it". Also, having Russia supporting you is another level than Armenia... But given the risk of having to sit out an entire season, or several seasons, or all your career, why aren't these slots being used?
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Moldova
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan

 

[Selene]

The first wave of Russian youngsters started with Adelina, Tuk then came Julia and Elena
what you have now are a second wave skaters Sotskova, Proklova, Sakhanovich, Medvedeva and there are more coming

but there is also a disadvantage with too much depth, a skater who is inconsistent can easily be shuffled and dropped out, see Tuk dropping to 10th from National Champion last year, also most of the younger skaters might find it hard/difficult to climb on the top, Sotnikova will most likely be propped up until 2018. Some of them will likely retire or switch to a different country

Some of the girls won't survive puberty. We have no idea how Julia, Elena, Alexandra, Serafima, etc. will adjust to their changing bodies. They may lose their jumps or consistency. Just look at Liza - she was as consistent as a rock, and the puberty hit, and her jumps are no longer consistent.

The same thing will happen to other Russian girls. When the new prepubescent girls hit the scene, the old phenoms will be discarded, a la Liza.

 

[sky_fly20]

Some of the girls won't survive puberty. We have no idea how Julia, Elena, Alexandra, Serafima, etc. will adjust to their changing bodies. They may lose their jumps or consistency. Just look at Liza - she was as consistent as a rock, and the puberty hit, and her jumps are no longer consistent.

The same thing will happen to other Russian girls. When the new prepubescent girls hit the scene, the old phenoms will be discarded, a la Liza.

but with many skaters ready to take their place, there is bound to be some who will survive puberty, Adelina did though some of her technique is bad making her a headcase. with puberty weeding out some of them, the surviving ones will get special support from the Fed. ones like Sotnikova who has been the Rus Fed's favorite since she was 12.

Depth can only go far, what is important is to support all the skaters
not choose a reigning queen to boost up ala Sotnikova some skaters will lose motivation and just retire
with so much dept yet hard to climb to the top with some getting special treatment than others

 

[gmyers]

Tuktamisheva was never ever consistent like a rock. Bad Sps took her out of worlds 2013 GPfs 2011 and 2012 . Bad Sps made it impossible for her to get to gpf 2013. Because she couldn't do sp russian fed just got tired and dropped her.

 

[hanca]

Tuktamisheva was never ever consistent like a rock. Bad Sps took her out of worlds 2013 GPfs 2011 and 2012 . Bad Sps made it impossible for her to get to gpf 2013. Because she couldn't do sp russian fed just got tired and dropped her.

That's not true. No one dropped her. The fact that she finished so low at the Russian nationals is no proof that she was dropped by their Federation. The competition was so fierce; there were too many very great ladies, with seven triples in their FS. Out of 18 ladies at Russian nationals, only three did not do 3-3 combination in their SP. Only four did 3T-3T, the remaining 11 have 3Lz-3T or 3F-3T!

It is natural that they can't get all medals; someone will finish higher and someone lower. If something, I think Liza was quite 'gifted' during the nationals. For example, Artemeva had a clean SP with 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A and a reasonably high level of spins and finished 11th after the SP! Not saying that she was robbed, the others were just better. Liza finished higher than her in the SP, with a fall in her SP. That's called lucky.

 

[sky_fly20]

That's not true. No one dropped her. The fact that she finished so low at the Russian nationals is no proof that she was dropped by their Federation. The competition was so fierce; there were too many very great ladies, with seven triples in their FS. Out of 18 ladies at Russian nationals, only three did not do 3-3 combination in their SP. Only four did 3T-3T, the remaining 11 have 3Lz-3T or 3F-3T!

It is natural that they can't get all medals; someone will finish higher and someone lower. If something, I think Liza was quite 'gifted' during the nationals. For example, Artemeva had a clean SP with 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A and a reasonably high level of spins and finished 11th after the SP! Not saying that she was robbed, the others were just better. Liza finished higher than her in the SP, with a fall in her SP. That's called lucky.

well she better sort her issues soon because she'll really fall behind the stocks in the coming years if she doesn't
and Tuk doesn't have particular unique skills that make her stand out, her 3A which she did at 12 years old seems nowhere to be materialized now in competitions
she has slow spins, SP headcase, same mambo jambo tango latin music and she has weight issues. that's a tall order for her to sort out. good luck to her for that and if she still has determination for next seasons to come then good for her

 

[Barb]

But at least we are sure Tuk is not getting taller, I am more worried for Julia because she is 15yo, if she doesn´t get taller at least she will gain weight, even Sasha Cohen and Akiko Suzuki looks heavier than Julia. And I doubt if that happen she will be so consistent as now with her tiny jumps.

 

[hanca]

well she better sort her issues soon because she'll really fall behind the stocks in the coming years if she doesn't
and Tuk doesn't have particular unique skills that make her stand out, her 3A which she did at 12 years old seems nowhere to be materialized now in competitions
she has slow spins, SP headcase, same mambo jambo tango latin music and she has weight issues. that's a tall order for her to sort out. good luck to her for that and if she still has determination for next seasons to come then good for her

Based on a probability, she will fall behind anyway, even if she sorts out her issues. After the next season, when the current JGP finalists will become senior age eligible, Russia will have approx 10 eligible ladies who will all have a very high level of skating and all of them fight for spots at the major events (Europeans/Worlds). As only max 3 can be chosen, that doesn't give her (or any of them) very high chance even if her programs were clean (because a few of the others have the ability to go clean too).

sky_fly20, you couldn't help yourself to make another dig at someone's weight, could you! What's your problem, are you fat? Is it your own low self confidence making you keep commenting on others' weight?

 

[seniorita]

Elisaveta has personality on ice and great jumps, take off air position and landing when she is on, she has had two rough seasons, but I m sure she will be fine once she stops growing up, mentioning for the 467th time she has weight issues while she is on puberty phase doesnt make it true.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

but there is also a disadvantage with too much depth, a skater who is inconsistent can easily be shuffled and dropped out, see Tuk dropping to 10th from National Champion last year, also most of the younger skaters might find it hard/difficult to climb on the top, Sotnikova will most likely be propped up until 2018. Some of them will likely retire or switch to a different country

While I agree that there is a disadvantage to having too many amazing skaters (see: Japanese men), don't attribute it to up and coming skaters for Tuktamysheva's placement - last year she was brilliant, this year she fell in both programs and only has herself to blame for her placement.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

sky_fly20, you couldn't help yourself to make another dig at someone's weight, could you! What's your problem, are you fat? Is it your own low self confidence making you keep commenting on others' weight?

This must be the case. If this is what she says about an elite level athlete, imagine what she thinks about herself looking in the mirror. sky_fly, particularly as a woman, you should be supporting healthy body image in girls and building up their confidence with the things you say instead of tearing them down... this weight-issues attitude is the worst -- I pray you never have a girl of your own, as one can only imagine the terrible things you might say to her and how rotten a role model you would be. :disapp:

 

[sky_fly20]

Based on a probability, she will fall behind anyway, even if she sorts out her issues. After the next season, when the current JGP finalists will become senior age eligible, Russia will have approx 10 eligible ladies who will all have a very high level of skating and all of them fight for spots at the major events (Europeans/Worlds). As only max 3 can be chosen, that doesn't give her (or any of them) very high chance even if her programs were clean (because a few of the others have the ability to go clean too).

sky_fly20, you couldn't help yourself to make another dig at someone's weight, could you! What's your problem, are you fat? Is it your own low self confidence making you keep commenting on others' weight?

well Tuk is lucky because next year, she still has one more season to sort out her issues
the 15 year age rule will be implemented going to senior starting next season, so all the JGP finalists will not be eligible for seniors

and did I say she is fat ? I said weight issues
for an elite skater, skaters like Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt or Tuk do have issues

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

So, if somebody went up to you on the street, looked you up and down, and said: "You have weight issues", you would not take offense or think they were calling you fat?

 

[sky_fly20]

So, if somebody went up to you on the street, looked you up and down, and said: "You have weight issues", you would not take offense or think they were calling you fat?

no, because the words have totally different meanings
Tuk as I said is lucky next year all juniors will stay juniors and she still has time to work out her issues

 

[pangtongfan]

I am so ready for it. I predict that from now until next Olympics they will have a lady at every world podium. The question ,will national interest increase for the sport because looking at the audience during nationals it does not compare to crowd the Japanese skaters can bring to an event.

Who knows. If Mao doesnt win the OGM (and I dont think she will, I expect Kim to defend) I think she will probably pull a surprise and continue. Even if I am wrong though you have Gold, Murakami (if she continues), Wagner, and if they got back on track Osmond and Li, and others probably coming up in the future who are capable of challenging the Russians, especialy as all except Lipnitskaia lack consistency (and Julia has proven to be beatable by others if they also skate clean). The Russians have never dominated ladies, I guess I have a hard time imaginging it. They could be on whole the country to beat maybe, but that is a shade below dominance for me.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

no, because the words have totally different meanings

Not really, but feel free to keep thinking you're right. Clearly, the copious amounts of people who complain about your "weight issues" statements have it all wrong, and in your own mind you're just commenting instead of being rude (although that's par for the course with you).

If you think saying somebody has weight issues and calling them fat are two different things (it'd be like somebody calling me a "pansy" and saying "why are you offended? it's not like I called you a f**"), then yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you had "weight issues" of your own and were projecting them on skaters like Osmond, Tukt, Zhang, etc.

 

[SimplyAFan]

I think Russia will certainly have a lot of success over the next 4 years with the depth they have. However, I'm waiting to see what happens when skaters like Julia, Elena, and the JGPF qualifiers go through puberty. I'm not sure Julia and Elena's jumps are big enough to remain consistent through body changes. I think they'll be successful senior skaters, but it's going to take time for them to really hit their stride. I say this, despite their huge success so far, because they look like girls skating with women. Elena is absolutely adorable, but "adorable" isn't something I really watch senior ladies to see. They will develop their PCS more and I think this will help them if they lose some of their big tricks or have inconsistencies.

On the other hand, I think we will start seeing Adelina become more consistent as she is done growing and can really focus on figuring out what technique works for her. I don't think we'll see it this season as having the OG in your home country and going in as national champion is a lot of pressure for anyone to handle. I think she'll be a true consistent contender sooner than any of the others.

As far as Liza, I hope she changes her training situation. I feel like it's just not working for her and she needs someone who will work with her on PCS and give her programs that will play to her strengths. She may not be on the forefront of ladies skating this upcoming season, but I hope she competes in senior B's and uses the time out of the spotlight to get her training/skating to a place that works for her. Mostly, I hope she gets her confidence back.

 

[sky_fly20]

to be fair Tuk did lost weight seeing her at Nationals so her other issues re fixable
she can count her stars lucky as no Russian JGP girls can go to senior next season
work on new programs with no tango/latin, maybe a new coach and she can still compete seriously she only has Anna and Leonova to compete with

 

[RobinA]

Some of the girls won't survive puberty.

I'll go out on a limb and say MOST of them won't survive puberty. Which of the American post-Kwan phenoms survived to be a podium threat? Uhmmm, none. Our current best hope is Wagner, who was not one of those triple-rotating little girls everybody raved about.

 

[RobinA]

Not really, but feel free to keep thinking you're right. Clearly, the copious amounts of people who complain about your "weight issues" statements have it all wrong, and in your own mind you're just commenting instead of being rude (although that's par for the course with you).

I don't know anything about sky's previous comments on weight issues, but I do notice that many skating fans are unwilling to acknowledge or confront directly the fact that normal weight for most ladies and figure skating success often do not go hand in hand. The fact is, many who would look quite healthy and slim on the street are of a weight, or at least weight distribution, that makes elite figure skating out of reach. As often happens when a former child dynamo develops a healthy adult female body.