Senior Ladies Short Program

[Rosaleen]

21 Erin Scherrer Kitchener - Waterloo SC WO
Music: Bloodcount / light blue with dark blue down one side /
A bit of chor to set the moody mood / 3l hand down slid off edge / ftwrk 3t / layback made some nice shapes with her arms / str tftwrk is phrased right with the moody music / how did I guess another David Wilson program / 2a / I missed the spirals, and the death drop sorry - was raving about the choreography / combo spin to end is well done / T 22.55 C 20.29 ded 1.00 tot 41.84 new pb / currently 10th

 

[Rosaleen]

22 Jessica Dubé Drummondville CPA QC
Music: Poeme - Secret Garden / white satin with flowers at top of bodice /
2a with great flow / lovely soft chor with the music / 3f turns out 2t / flycam is fast to donut and centered / spirals are nice - good flow & extension / 3s went up crooked fell / O ftwrk is soft & flowing with music / layback with foot to head / combo spin is excellent great pos / clock on scoreboard shows 2:51 - poss time deduction / T 24.66 C 22.93 ded 1.00 tot 46.59 currently 5th /

 

[Rosaleen]

23 Meagan Duhamel Walden FSC NO
Music: Duel by Bond / light purple
3z fell / 3f2t almost hand down on flip but didn't / butterfly sit is good / spirals carry good speed - could use a bit more extension / 2a - good distance / layback in classic pos is fast / diag steps flow with music / combo spin is centered with good pos / T 27.50 C 20.54 ded 1.00 tot 47.44 currently 5th /

 

[Rosaleen]

24 Lesley Hawker Toronto CS & CC CO
Music: Les Mis red with gold glitter on bodice
Layback - didn't see it / 3z2t not really steady on either but clean / butterfly cam good pos but very slow / 3f / 2a good bend in knee saved it / combo spin is very nice centered good speed & pos / spiral - bit of balance check on one / ftwrk is very curvey back & forth across the strt line - bit slow but works very well with the music / one very happy lady / T 29.07 C 24.50 tot 53.57 new pb / currently 2nd /

 

[R.D.]

Thanks for the reports.

56 for Rochette...not stellar but let's see.

 

[Tigger]

Oh way to go Lesley!!!

Thank you Rosaleen!!

 

[SailorGalaxia518]

Cynthia Phaneuf is still not out of this. She can still make it as high as 2nd place.

GO CYNTHIA AND JOANNIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Rosaleen

 

[slutskayafan21]

Leung was so overscored. Her being ahead of Samson and only 1 point behind Hawker is just plain wrong. Their jumps were higher and cleaner, their spins were better centered with better positions, their choreography was far more advanced, and they skated with more flow, far better posture, and much more style. Phaneuf even with her 1 big mistake is in the running for the 2nd spot which is great. Rochette was doing the triple-triple in warmup but left it out when it counted, then doubled her next triple to boot, Phaneuf actually would be right with her score had she not popped her triple lutz.

 

[chuckm]

Rochette (who doubled the lutz), Phaneuf (who popped her lutz and had no combo) and Leung (who has a bizarre jump technique and who is a mess on her non-jump elements) were all overscored. These are the anointed ones.

Rochette and Phaneuf were assisted by lots of +GOE and high PCS scores, and Leung, by PCS scores higher than she would normally get. Skate Canada badly wanted Phaneuf in the final group for the FS, and marked the skaters who came after her to make that happen (little or no +GOE, lower PCS scores). Rochette is an obvious favorite, and Phaneuf is being positioned to become a major contender next season. Mira is in there because she has the technical ability, if not much else.

I thought Hawker and Samson were fairly scored, but not held up. Lesley has a shot to make the World team, and it would be a hoot if she beat Mira in the FS. I think Mira would benefit from having to sit out a year--it might make her do something about her bad jump technique, and work on her presentation.

 

[Tigger]

Not only that, but Mira's jumps are a touch pre rotated. (Yeah, I know....Sometimes more than a touch...) However she never gets dinged for it and I will never understand that.

I thought Cynthia gave a good explaination of what happened w/that lutz. CTV showed that 3-3 of Joannie's. That was a beauty, but a shame she left it in the warmup. However, I could tell the way the flip looked in the air it would end up being a 3-2. Joannie also did a very good job of going over what happened.

Both took the blame for what happened and explained why. No the ice was too hard, this happened, that happened...Just the truth. Also shows why both are excellent role models for the little ones watching them.

Still thrilled for Lesley and Megan should be very proud of what she was able to do out there tonight. Not her best I know, but considering everything she's been through this fall, it's just amazing she's even skating there in Halifax.

edited to add...Chuck, you took the words right out of my mouth up there. I also think it would be the best thing in the world if Mira was not on the Team for Tokyo. I'm just scared that Skate Canada's going to hold her up, so she does end up going.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Rochette (who doubled the lutz), Phaneuf (who popped her lutz and had no combo) and Leung (who has a bizarre jump technique and who is a mess on her non-jump elements) were all overscored. These are the anointed ones.

Rochette and Phaneuf were assisted by lots of +GOE and high PCS scores, and Leung, by PCS scores higher than she would normally get. Skate Canada badly wanted Phaneuf in the final group for the FS, and marked the skaters who came after her to make that happen (little or no +GOE, lower PCS scores). Rochette is an obvious favorite, and Phaneuf is being positioned to become a major contender next season. Mira is in there because she has the technical ability, if not much else.

I thought Hawker and Samson were fairly scored, but not held up. Lesley has a shot to make the World team, and it would be a hoot if she beat Mira in the FS. I think Mira would benefit from having to sit out a year--it might make her do something about her bad jump technique, and work on her presentation.

I dont know why you believe Rochette was overscored in any sense. Her score was only 1 point higher then Skate Canada, and her mistake at Skate Canada was worth about 1 point more on the same jump then her mistake here. So basicaly she was scored the same as her similar GP event performance, and at Nationals actually you often expect a higher score.

All I know is I would have had Leung further behind Hawker and behind Samson as well. I dont like to analyze the scores themselves except relative to other skater, if some skaters are scored the same way they would be at an international, while others are scored higher then they would be at an international, perhaps it is still the others who are underscored as you expect scoring at Nationals to be on a bit of a higher scale anyway.

 

[chuckm]

I thought Joannie was overscored in comparison to what Hawker did.

As to the comparison with Skate Canada--at SC, she attempted a 3Z but it was underrotated, while at Nationals, she did a 2Z; it was not ruled as an underrotated triple. She got higher GOE on 6 out of 8 elements, which added up to an additional 0.79 points. She also received an additional 0.50 points in PCS, for a total 1.29 points, enough to keep her comfortably ahead of Hawker.

Yes, I know--scores tend to be inflated at Nationals--but they also are inflated to some degree at Skate Canada, if only for the Canadian skaters (home ice advantage). Here we are seeing a double dose of inflation.

Hawker landed all her jumps, but the judges were stingy with GOE and not overly generious with the PCS. If Joannie had skated Hawker's program, she would probably had received close to 60 points. Lesley got much closer to 50 points than to 60.

What is worrisome to me is that Joannie has this tendency to underrotate, double or pop jumps. She can do it without being unduly gigged on home ice, but she will not get the same treatment in Tokyo.

 

[iloveaxel]

I thought Joannie was overscored in comparison to what Hawker did.

As to the comparison with Skate Canada--at SC, she attempted a 3Z but it was underrotated, while at Nationals, she did a 2Z; it was not ruled as an underrotated triple. She got higher GOE on 6 out of 8 elements, which added up to an additional 0.79 points. She also received an additional 0.50 points in PCS, for a total 1.29 points, enough to keep her comfortably ahead of Hawker.

Yes, I know--scores tend to be inflated at Nationals--but they also are inflated to some degree at Skate Canada, if only for the Canadian skaters (home ice advantage). Here we are seeing a double dose of inflation.

Hawker landed all her jumps, but the judges were stingy with GOE and not overly generious with the PCS. If Joannie had skated Hawker's program, she would probably had received close to 60 points. Lesley got much closer to 50 points than to 60.

What is worrisome to me is that Joannie has this tendency to underrotate, double or pop jumps. She can do it without being unduly gigged on home ice, but she will not get the same treatment in Tokyo.

Hawker's lutz combo and 2A landings are very shaky. Her program is a blah...
I don't believe Canadian judges overscored a whole lot compared to Russian and Japanese Nationals.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I thought Joannie was overscored in comparison to what Hawker did.

As to the comparison with Skate Canada--at SC, she attempted a 3Z but it was underrotated, while at Nationals, she did a 2Z; it was not ruled as an underrotated triple. She got higher GOE on 6 out of 8 elements, which added up to an additional 0.79 points. She also received an additional 0.50 points in PCS, for a total 1.29 points, enough to keep her comfortably ahead of Hawker.

Ok thanks for the breakdown. I can see now I was slightly off on my recollection of her Skate Canada performance, off the top of my head I believed she had popped open the triple lutz to a single and come down on two foot thus getting virtualy nothing for it at Skate Canada. It wasnt quite that big a mistake at Skate Canada, now that I looked back on the protocals as well, so yes you are right here GOE and PC did increase a fair amount from Skate Canada to get her score.

Yes, I know--scores tend to be inflated at Nationals--but they also are inflated to some degree at Skate Canada, if only for the Canadian skaters (home ice advantage). Here we are seeing a double dose of inflation.

Yeah that is true, the fact the event being compared to is Skate Canada and she would also receive preferential scoring there being a Canadian in Canada, and here she received a further boost in points for quality of skating and elements IMO not improved from Skate Canada in anyway I saw. In fact aside from the doubled lutz, her overall performance seemed a bit tight and tenative if anything.

Hawker landed all her jumps, but the judges were stingy with GOE and not overly generious with the PCS. If Joannie had skated Hawker's program, she would probably had received close to 60 points. Lesley got much closer to 50 points than to 60.

I would have been happy to see Hawker's performance atleast closer to Rochette's as well, and certainly further ahead of Leung's. Since Hawker is much too old to be an up and comer, and does not have success at her international events(she wouldnt do that well anyway but often doesnt produce close to clean performances at them either)she probably has little backing from the CSA compared to people like Rochette, Phaneuf, and the overrated Leung. That unfortunately reflects in the scores. She will have to earn anything she gets from the judges, who probably deep down would prefer somebody else to go to Worlds.

I do agree if one had done the others performances the scores would look quite different.

What is worrisome to me is that Joannie has this tendency to underrotate, double or pop jumps. She can do it without being unduly gigged on home ice, but she will not get the same treatment in Tokyo.

The judges definitely do not want Rochette to lose her Canadian title, so if needed will protect her. You are right that she wont get the same leinant treatment at Worlds though, what happened to her at Eric Bompard already should spell that out for her.

The thing that frusterated me watching is in warm up she did a triple flip-triple toe multiple times in a row, and both triple lutzes I saw her try were clean. Then she competes and doesnt try the triple-triple, and doubles the triple lutz.

 

[rain]

I was very impressed with Samson. I don't think Rochette was held up at all in comparison to the other skaters. Hawker, yes, was technically clean on the jumps, but her landings were not the best and some of her other elements are downright ugly such as her spiral sequence. Footwork was also messy at times. Rochette was by far the most polished on all the elements overall and I think that's wat the marks, rightly, reflect.

 

[Sackie]

I agree with you Rain. Joannie had mistakes but what she did do she did well! Yes she didn't get in the 3/3 but there's no deduction for that - just points left on the ice. Yes Leslie was good but some of her elements looked 'off' at times. Personally I would have had Samson in second place or if not second at least a close third to Leslie. To me Samson had a nice look on the ice and had a nice 'package' as they say.A lot of Mira's elements looked 'off' to me too. Tracy commented on her being a good spinner but a few of them really looked awkward! And yes the new program is cute! But it still is not good!

 

[Fruit Loops]

I pretty much agree with the results. I'd have Samson over Leung because her elements seemed cleaner and more impressive. She still skates a bit gawky, IMO, but she has nice speed and line.

I used to be a Leung supporter but she still is so sluggish-looking out there on the ice. I have no problems with female skaters being more athletic than graceful but Leung just isn't powerful enough to get away with it. Elvis Stojko wasn't very artistic either but he was fast, strong, his strokes smooth and he used his power to achieve high techinical skills to draw the audience and judges into his programs. I think Leung is capable of doing so but only if her basics improve. I hope Samson beats her in the long and overall just to force these improvements.

 

[jayta]

I'd like to know how many of you are international judges with training and an eye for the technical things they are looking for as well as program components. As much as I know that Mira isn't near polished as Joannie and Cynthia (appearance wise) I think it is in total bad taste to trash the 17 year old girl or even Joannie for doing something you obviously can't do. I don't see you competing at a national level putting all of your blood, sweat and tears into a sport and trying your best only to have anyone and everyone criticize you.

I'm not just defending Mira or Joannie. If this were said about anyone else I'd still be irritated. I keep hearing Mira has horrible jump technique. Why do National champions and other retired champions not mention it as much as people who have no real 'face' in the sport as far as I can see? I just am tired of people trashing people. Fine you think her technique is horrible. That's your opinion. But to have it state in almost every post on this forum gets tiresome.

Why do we need to critique these people to the point of degredation?

Rosleen I appreciate your comments and keeping us up on what's happening. But right now you're the only thing keeping me coming back to this board. I appreciate you for being objective.

As I can't keep from posting negative things because of the things posted here, I won't post again. But I thought I'd mention it because this is more than just personal opinion and critique. It's gotten almost beyond that on this forum.

 

[Fruit Loops]

I don't like mindless bashing either but I think it's fair to critique the skaters we see.

Besides, those who can't do teach and those who can't teach criticize!

 

[Spun Silver]

Anyone have a vid of Mira?

I just watched Joannie's. She did nicely apart from the missed jumps but I'm not wild about this SP. The music doesn't have any shape, it just goes on and on. And I don't understand her costume choice. The music would seem to call for a slinky black unitard - and maybe a red cat's paw named Jimmy.