- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
Alissa proved...she can beat anybody including Miki if skates clean. Unfortuately Rachael, Caroline and Ashly couldn't do it...Mirai is questionable.
Alissa should be sent to Worlds.
Alissa should be sent to Worlds.
Should the USFSA give Alissa Czisny a ticket to Worlds after being GPF Champion?
- Thread starter russell30
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
There was an odd situation last year with the Japanese ladies. Miki's GPF performance guaranteed her a spot on the Olympic team. But her federation required her to skate at her nationals to claim her spot. She finished 4th.
Yes, Alissa should got o worlds this season based on results and in particular winning the GPF.
If suzuki, kanako or Ando had won they would have been granted their place in the world team.
Maybe ISU should step in and say who ever wins their discipline within the GPF they are sent to World's.
That would make the GPF a more important competition than just a sub-standard one. People reaching the GPF from the GP is a sign that skater is on that season.
It might make skaters not to skip the GP knowing that a world spot is up for grabs and more overall coverage.
I feel for the likes of Alissa, the US are very strong. We know that the likes of Chan, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Pang/Tong, Kostner, Verner, Amodio are already there for the Euros and Worlds. I feel for Alissa she has to do Nationals to prove she is world standard when she is already world standard and potentially a world medalist.
I feel like its deprivation to some degree and because of the depth will not get another chance if she has a no show at US which may ruin her chances :disapp:
If suzuki, kanako or Ando had won they would have been granted their place in the world team.
Maybe ISU should step in and say who ever wins their discipline within the GPF they are sent to World's.
That would make the GPF a more important competition than just a sub-standard one. People reaching the GPF from the GP is a sign that skater is on that season.
It might make skaters not to skip the GP knowing that a world spot is up for grabs and more overall coverage.
I feel for the likes of Alissa, the US are very strong. We know that the likes of Chan, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Pang/Tong, Kostner, Verner, Amodio are already there for the Euros and Worlds. I feel for Alissa she has to do Nationals to prove she is world standard when she is already world standard and potentially a world medalist.
I feel like its deprivation to some degree and because of the depth will not get another chance if she has a no show at US which may ruin her chances :disapp:
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
Of course, Alissa could get a mysterious attack of swine flu next January, then ask for a medical bye to Worlds. 
No, that could never happen.
No, that could never happen.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I believe the Japan Federation changed that system to include the GPs in their consideration. (They learned a lesson going only by one competition.)
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
All those skaters who podiumed at the GP segments and Final showed strength in international competitions. The podium at US Nats will definitely show a Winner and two other placements, but will it show strength for international competition? Hopefully Alissa will be on that podium, if it's the only source for her to go to Worlds.
^ Well, we have four U.S. ladies who made podiums at GP segments. And only two spots for the world team. How two choose which two to leave out? :think: Hmmm.... Guess they'll have to skate for it
But I understand what you are saying - only I just think if other competitions are going to be given equal or more importance than nationals the standards should be pretty high.
I don't think Ashley's bronze or Mirai's silver - but lackluster performance at another GP competition _ or Rachael's two silvers and meltdown in the GPF _ are much to jump up and down about. It's too subjective to decide whether it was more impressive that Ashely won bronze against her competition or that Rachael won silver at against the competition she happened to face at SA.
Whether Alissa's GPF is enough to go on is debatable. She won. But Mirai was fourth at the Olympics last year. So if Mirai is second with a brilliant skate at nationals and Alissa is third with a so-so skate it is not at all clear to me which one of those is the stronger competitor of the two. In fact my money would be on Mirai to do better than Alissa at worlds if Mirai shows she is back on form at nationals.
Still, the selection committee is allowed to take into account Allissa's GPF victory. So it could happen - if a truly untested or 14-year-old skater is second and Alissa is third or fourth I wouldn't be surprised if Alissa was named to the team.
But I understand what you are saying - only I just think if other competitions are going to be given equal or more importance than nationals the standards should be pretty high.
I don't think Ashley's bronze or Mirai's silver - but lackluster performance at another GP competition _ or Rachael's two silvers and meltdown in the GPF _ are much to jump up and down about. It's too subjective to decide whether it was more impressive that Ashely won bronze against her competition or that Rachael won silver at against the competition she happened to face at SA.
Whether Alissa's GPF is enough to go on is debatable. She won. But Mirai was fourth at the Olympics last year. So if Mirai is second with a brilliant skate at nationals and Alissa is third with a so-so skate it is not at all clear to me which one of those is the stronger competitor of the two. In fact my money would be on Mirai to do better than Alissa at worlds if Mirai shows she is back on form at nationals.
Still, the selection committee is allowed to take into account Allissa's GPF victory. So it could happen - if a truly untested or 14-year-old skater is second and Alissa is third or fourth I wouldn't be surprised if Alissa was named to the team.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Alissa has proved she is the class of the international field right now. All she needs to do is prove it again at nationals and she will be on the World Team no problem. But if she can't do that and bombs, well then maybe it means she's the same inconsistent Alissa and the top 2 finishers should go instead. If Alissa can't handle the pressure at nats, it's probably a good sign she can't handle it at Worlds. But if she can skate great at nats, well then there is no reason to believe she won't do the same at Worlds and she'll go.
There is no one now Id rather watch than Alissa, and I hope she skates well at Nationals, because that has always been the way the team has been chosen. I doubt they will change the rules now. I think USFSA has a dilemma, because they are probably more concerned about getting the three spots back. I m not sure she would be the best choice for that. Then again, the International judges really like her(whats not to like) so who knows.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Well, yes. They have done this repeatedly. In 2002, when Yoshie Onda made the GPF, the JSF told her she will go to the Olympics, even if she wasn't national champion. I think that was also the year JSF required everyone to skate regionals, even if you were the national champion--and Yoshie finished behind Fumie and Shizuka, and it raised many eyebrows.
In 2006, Miki made the GPF, and had the highest "points" (I believe they either went into a ranking system or a season's best for their team selection), but finished 6th at Nationals, behind even Yoshie and Yukari.
I'm part of the group that says Alissa shouldn't go based on her win at the GPF alone. Besides, Alissa has said herself that she wants to regain her national title.
How many top ladies' skaters can podium 4 times at the same season?:think:
It's really harsh to determine her worlds spot with only one competition[US Nationals] this year. Also seem to be unfair.
ISU should reconsider their policies on country spot assignments for worlds instead of changing rules every year. Only this issue occurs from very few countries which have very high-level, competitive skaters - Japan, US and maybe Russia a few years later.
Increasing +1 spot for this countries, it will not drop the competition qualities. The only problem might be budget?
Um, before any of us sends Alissa/Mirai/Rachel/Ashely/unnamed skater to worlds, perhaps we should let them skate at Nationals first?
IMO, I'm not that impressed with any of the top ladies this season - so much so that I'd say one should be a shoe-in for Worlds. Each has had poor skates, mediocre skates and some good skates. Even winning skates were marred with falls/slips/under rotation/neg. GOA etc.
I like Alissa a great deal. She reminds me of Angela Nikodinov in that they have both been some of the most talented and gifted skaters ever - but who never seemed to get it together for any length of time. Perhaps Alissa IS coming around but this FS at the GPF was not perfect and there were mistakes and hiccups. I thought her jumping looked tight and forced...but she stayed upright. :thumbsup:
Rachel has had some okay skates...but some GOE issues. She does not pretend to be a lyrical skater..she knows her gifts are in her athleticism. Why that is failing her now is a bit of a mystery to me since I've always thought she had good technique. I do have to say, if she was in as much pain and as poorly prepared for this comp. as she appeared to be, She and Team Z should have bowed out gracefully and given the girl a rest. I'm not convinced that this performance has not really shaken her. She's never skated this bad and is as much as she is "reliable Rachel" I would not be surprised if this rattles her for sometime. Hopefully, she can overcome it.
Both Mirai and Ashely have had difficult years and have struggled with consistency. Ashely wants it just too much she "forces it". Mirai...I'm not sure what the issue is with her..perhaps just loss of concentration. Either way, both skaters have demonstrated the ability to come back from difficulty and skate wonderful programs, so I think its dangerous and premature to write them (or anyone else) off.
It is possible that someone aside from the above 4 will "break out" at Nationals. Whether they make the podium, challenge for a Worlds spot (or 4C's) we just don't know. I am however, one that does not put much stock in one "breakout" performance at Nationals (or anywhere else). They may be indicator of potential success but in most cases, the skater with the "breakout performance" is usually not able to duplicate it at Worlds/4C's and needs a bit more time to mature into their new-found status. This is not to say that they can't use it to propel their careers next season but I don't see them being able to sustain it without a few hiccups.
Just my few cents worth.
IMO, I'm not that impressed with any of the top ladies this season - so much so that I'd say one should be a shoe-in for Worlds. Each has had poor skates, mediocre skates and some good skates. Even winning skates were marred with falls/slips/under rotation/neg. GOA etc.
I like Alissa a great deal. She reminds me of Angela Nikodinov in that they have both been some of the most talented and gifted skaters ever - but who never seemed to get it together for any length of time. Perhaps Alissa IS coming around but this FS at the GPF was not perfect and there were mistakes and hiccups. I thought her jumping looked tight and forced...but she stayed upright. :thumbsup:
Rachel has had some okay skates...but some GOE issues. She does not pretend to be a lyrical skater..she knows her gifts are in her athleticism. Why that is failing her now is a bit of a mystery to me since I've always thought she had good technique. I do have to say, if she was in as much pain and as poorly prepared for this comp. as she appeared to be, She and Team Z should have bowed out gracefully and given the girl a rest. I'm not convinced that this performance has not really shaken her. She's never skated this bad and is as much as she is "reliable Rachel" I would not be surprised if this rattles her for sometime. Hopefully, she can overcome it.
Both Mirai and Ashely have had difficult years and have struggled with consistency. Ashely wants it just too much she "forces it". Mirai...I'm not sure what the issue is with her..perhaps just loss of concentration. Either way, both skaters have demonstrated the ability to come back from difficulty and skate wonderful programs, so I think its dangerous and premature to write them (or anyone else) off.
It is possible that someone aside from the above 4 will "break out" at Nationals. Whether they make the podium, challenge for a Worlds spot (or 4C's) we just don't know. I am however, one that does not put much stock in one "breakout" performance at Nationals (or anywhere else). They may be indicator of potential success but in most cases, the skater with the "breakout performance" is usually not able to duplicate it at Worlds/4C's and needs a bit more time to mature into their new-found status. This is not to say that they can't use it to propel their careers next season but I don't see them being able to sustain it without a few hiccups.
Just my few cents worth.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
How many top ladies' skaters can podium 4 times at the same season?:think:
It's really harsh to determine her worlds spot with only one competition[US Nationals] this year. Also seem to be unfair.
ISU should reconsider their policies on country spot assignments for worlds instead of changing rules every year. Only this issue occurs from very few countries which have very high-level, competitive skaters - Japan, US and maybe Russia a few years later.
Increasing +1 spot for this countries, it will not drop the competition qualities. The only problem might be budget?
Had she skated better at sectionals and TEB, your point would be more valid, but she was typical Alissa at those events. Now, if she is 3rd or 4th at nationals and still skates pretty well, then I could maybe see sending her to Worlds anyways, but if a bunch of ladies outskate her there, it just doesn't make sense. She may have peaked at the GPF and her skating may start going downhill thereafter, we saw this with Jeremy Abbott 2 seasons in a row.
Ha! That's a figure skating fan - being annoyed that you're going to miss nationals because you'll be in a cruise
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2009
In response to the title question, no i don't think the USFS should give Czisny an automatic spot on the Worlds Team but I think her performances this season (and other skaters') should definitely be taken into account when selecting the Team.
If the ISU wanted skaters and federations to take the GP Series even more seriously, it could change its rules to allow for the GP champion in each discipline (maybe even all the medalists) to receive an automatic ticket to Worlds, without having it count against their country's allowed spots. This invite would go specifically to that skater/team, and would not be transferrable to another skater/team from same country. This is such a no-brainer with little downside for the ISU, that I'm not sure why it hasn't been instituted.
If the ISU wanted skaters and federations to take the GP Series even more seriously, it could change its rules to allow for the GP champion in each discipline (maybe even all the medalists) to receive an automatic ticket to Worlds, without having it count against their country's allowed spots. This invite would go specifically to that skater/team, and would not be transferrable to another skater/team from same country. This is such a no-brainer with little downside for the ISU, that I'm not sure why it hasn't been instituted.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
I believe so too. I love to see Alissa and Mirai go.
However, if she got third or lower and the top two are Nagasu and Flatt, I don't see there is any possibility of having Alissa replace any of the top two, unless USFSA changes the selecting tradition this year for Czisny, which I don't think it would happen. Czisny is not Michelle Kwan. If Mechelle Kwan were in the same situation, I would believe that Michelle would be a lock for World team.
Regarding to whether Czisny should get a free pass to the Worlds, I think she shouldn't. USFSA should consider both the GPF result and the Nationals result and the latter weighs more. Maybe 30/70?
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Yuna, Mao, Miki, Laura, etc. The best skaters can consistently podium at events throughout the season, that's what makes them the best.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
It is hard to know what the prededent is. In 2001-02 Matt Savoie won the bronze medal at the Grand Prix Final, but finished fourth at U.S. Nationals. The top three at Nationals were Eldredge, Goebel and Weiss. These three went to the Olympics. (IMHO Savoie deserved placement at Nationals ahead of Weiss, but that's another story.
)Eldredge decided not to go to Worlds that year, so Savoie went to Worlds with the other two.
Other than that, every U.S. skater/dance team who ever medaled at the Grand Prix final handily made the podium at Nationals as well, so there was no controversy. For instance, in ladies, the former Grand Prix Finals winners for the U.S. were Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, and Sasha Cohen.
She shouldn't have even BEEN at Sectionals, and was probably just trying to do enough to get by there. I would hate to hold her performance there against her... To me, it's irrelevant. That Sectionals week was supposed to be her "down time" in between GPs.
I just hope her success on the GP counts for something... If she were to get 3rd at Nationals by a couple of points, I would want them to send her to Worlds over the 2nd place finisher. But history says they wouldn't. :disapp:
It is hard to know what the prededent is. In 2001-02 Matt Savoie won the bronze medal at the Grand Prix Final, but finished fourth at U.S. Nationals. The top three at Nationals were Eldredge, Goebel and Weiss. These three went to the Olympics. (IMHO Savoie deserved placement at Nationals ahead of Weiss, but that's another story.
Eldredge decided not to go to Worlds that year, so Savoie went to Worlds with the other two.
Other than that, every U.S. skater/dance team who ever medaled at the Grand Prix final handily made the podium at Nationals as well, so there was no controversy. For instance, in ladies, the former Grand Prix Finals winners for the U.S. were Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, and Sasha Cohen.
Interesting. These three were all seasoned though right? I think it would be hard for them to shaft Mirai and Rachael if they edge out Alissa for first and second. I suppose if a more unseasoned skater is second they might consider it with Alissa being the the GPF.
But you know, I hope it doesn't happen that way for Alissa. Going to worlds that way - with a controversy over her head - wouldn't be as much fun and she'd go under a similar cloud as in 09 when some felt she didn't deserve to go and kept saying she would mess up. Which she did. She didn't have the fan support that a National Champion normally does ... so this time I really hope she skates her way to the gold or the silver and goes to worlds with unfaltering support.
It's so nice to see on these threads how many people appreciate Alissa's skating and were so happy with her win Saturday
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